Crazy Transit Pitches

Shepard said:
I'm going to play a quick devil's advocate with regards to this whole enterprise. I have no beef with systems centered around Providence, or Springfield, or Worcester, or Nashua/Manchester/Concord. I'm also not opposed to responsibly enlarging the commuter rail out of Boston. But I don't get the need for the density and interconnectedness among all these systems. Is anyone really commuting along these patterns? Headways are never going to be so frequent on a commuter system like this that the transfers will be worthwhile for anyone. It's a pretty fantasy map, but I'm not sure what kind of fantasy it is, exactly...
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Providence is already happening, they don't intend to be strapped to the T for ever. While they may contract the T to actually operate their ops, they want to be an independent system.

Same with Springfield. The New Haven-Springfield line, with an extension to Greenfield or Northampton (can't remember) is already in the works.

I ran out of room and only showed the south side, but Portland is doing something similar. They have the downeaster extensions north, independent service to Rockland, and studies on CR to L/A and other places. I don't know if it's really feasible, but they are looking at it.

If NH ever stops letting it's rails rust away something similar is likely to happen there too.

So really, this is just showing the potential service, and how it all intertwines. By combining resources, the 4/5 separate systems can work together to be greater than the sum of their parts. I envision essentially separate systems, but operated cooperatively. A rail line from Concord to Worcester doesn't make 100% sense from just a NH perspective, but with some assistance from MA it does. For commuting habits, no, transfers don't make sense/wouldn't happen. But for a regional rail view, I don't think someone making a transfer would be out of the question. Hell, I would take a train out to Brattleboro on the weekend if I only had to transfer once in Manchester.
 
You could also have a Worcester-secondary if you extend the Central RR past Wayland through Hudson and Berlin to Clinton, then back down to Worcester through West Boylston.
EDIT: Looks like you do have it as NHDOT out of Nashua.
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You can also have express Fitchburg service via Lowell, Chelmsford, Westford meeting up with the Fitchburg Line in Littleton.

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Davem,


That is a true New England Rail Network. Very cool to see this kinda thing. It touches all NE states. Perhaps it would be cool to see a line extension up the Connecticut River Valley up to White River Jct./Dartmouth/Hannover area?
 
c_combat said:
Davem,


That is a true New England Rail Network. Very cool to see this kinda thing. It touches all NE states. Perhaps it would be cool to see a line extension up the Connecticut River Valley up to White River Jct./Dartmouth/Hannover area?
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I thought about it, but with the trip times what would be the market? I can't imagine it going beyond Springfield, and is anyone past Northampton commuting there?
 
davem said:
I thought about it, but with the trip times what would be the market? I can't imagine it going beyond Springfield, and is anyone past Northampton commuting there?
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The Knowledge Corridor should extend up to Brattleboro , with hourly service north of Springfield. Service South of Springfield should run twice an hour in tiered levels... I'm sure Ive posted about this in the past. The Line would be Electric aswell....I would push for Electrification all the way up to St. Albans. I would speed things up to 110mph in Vermont and 135mph south Brattleboro...

Services would operate like this
Local / North - Brattleboro to Springfield Union , making stops at Brattleboro , Vernon , Mount Hermon , Bernardston , Greenfield , Deerfield , South Deerfield , Hatfield , Northampton , Mount Tom , Holyoke , Willimansett , Chicopee Center , Brightwood and Springfield would run every hour off peak and every 30mins during rush hour

Express - Brattleboro to New Haven Union , Making stops at Brattleboro , Greenfield , Northampton , Holyoke , State Street - Springfield , Windsor Locks , Hartford Union ,Berlin , New Haven - State and New Haven Union. This service would operate 2x per hour during peak hour , along with 6 roundtrips on weekends and Holidays

Local / South - Springfield Union to New Haven Union , making stops at Springfield Union , Springfield State , Longmeadow , Thompsonville , Windsor Locks , Windsor , North End - Hartford , Hartford Union , Newington , Berlin , Meriden , Wallingford , North Haven , Hamden , New Haven State and New Haven Union. This service would cover the more densely populated section of the knowledge corridor and thus would run every 10mins during rush hour and every 30mins offpeak...

I base my service levels off the New Haven line and other MNRR lines which are split into different blocks. As the ridership grows , more blocks could be added like an additional service operating in a local format from Hartford to New Haven to ease congestion...or a limited local which would skip or service just a certain part of the line... If the Knowledge corridor were to be built the way I envision it , I could see it becoming the next New Haven line... Connecting small neighborhoods with towns and cities....and Colleges and Universities...along with recreational places. The service has to be reasonable and the prices have to be low for you to see a huge change in commuting habits. I would assume most people who live along the corridor , live within a short drivable distance to a future station.... Add wifi , bathrooms and a cafe car on express trains and the line would become very popular. If it does well , then it would be very easy to get service extended to Pittsfield or North Adams or Worcester...
 
I've been thinking about the Quincy Adams area. Just whipped up a transit-oriented idea I had:
https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zDJ7PZTCibXk.kWFvbszZ_QQQ

My main idea is to build a new station over part of the Home Depot lot. You'll need to take my word that that part of the lot is almost never occupied, except by people trying to see if they can park for free outside the station. I've seen maybe two dozen cars there on the busiest I've ever seen that HD.

So, put a new station there. My vision is for the Kiss and Ride traffic to enter near the southern end of the station, and then have the actual entrance to the station (where the commuters will be dropped off/picked up) near the northern end. This is to alleviate the current poor layout, where there is a hairpin turn immediately after you enter the station, which is also where most passengers wait for their ride. So, many drivers wait right in an area that is hard for other drivers to pull past them, and during rush hour, its just all jammed up. My layout avoids this.

The next problem for the station itself is the ramp for daily parking. I have a few solutions. 1) Just run it into the new station, running the path over the old station. 2) Curve the ramp a little sharper so that it runs over Centre St, rather than over the old station. 3) Run the whole thing underground.

The underground idea brings me to my next suggestion for the station: Put the daily parking underground. This would free up the above-ground levels of the new station for other purposes, whatever they may be.

Then, after the old station is razed down, build some mixed-use development on top of the now-empty lot.

So, what do you guys think of my crazy idea for the Quincy Adams MBTA.
 
It's cool to see something like this get a bit of press but why on earth does the map they included have the Blue and Green connecting at Hynes and not Kenmore?

I hope that's a product of bad photoshopping and not of the students' plan in question.

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c_combat said:
http://bostinno.streetwise.co/2014/07/09/wentworth-students-deliver-presentation-on-blue-line-extension-proposal-to-riverside/

Blue Line > D Line


Anyone see this? I saw it in El Planeta the other day.
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The full Blue-eats-D scheme isn't as vital as just Red-Blue connector at MGH, but I have always thought fondly of the whole shebang. Their plan only includes a single infill station which is good. They might even skip the Dartmouth station (NIMBY pacification) as long as they leave provisions to complete it in the future. Obviously Storrow boulevardization is key to the whole thing which drags pike improvements into it as well. Although maybe not, maybe they have a scheme to actually get it done for $3BB without redesigning the entire transportation network of the region.

Good luck to them. At least they are talking about it.
 
Pity my ass, where do you think I learned Photoshop and Illustraitor? AT WENTWORTH!
 
Equilibria said:
Oh have pity. They're clearly in such dire straits that they had to photograph their monitor... :p
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I have a feeling that's BostInno taking pictures of their presentation slide(s). The presentation likely had a clear, downright stolen image, especially if they shopped out the copyright.
 
datadyne007 said:
I have a feeling that's BostInno taking pictures of their presentation slide(s). The presentation likely had a clear, downright stolen image, especially if they shopped out the copyright.
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Yeah, I know, I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to be negligently glib.
 
Downburst said:
why on earth does the map they included have the Blue and Green connecting at Hynes and not Kenmore?
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Some guesses on why not Kenmore:
1) Using the center ROWs and a cross-platform transfer at Kenmore wasn't viable (too hard to get in and get out while "crossing")
2) Everything you can connect to at Kenmore you can connect to at Hynes

Some guesses on why Hynes-Yawkey-Riverway
1) Hynes probably has more proven demand than Kenmore
2) It looks like they're routing it under Boylston St
3) I suspect "Yawkey" is actually Boylston@Yawkey
-or- they went for a CR connection over saving 1 stop for B/C riders
 
Arlington said:
Some guesses on why not Kenmore:
1) Using the center ROWs and a cross-platform transfer at Kenmore wasn't viable (too hard to get in and get out while "crossing")

Some guesses on why Hynes-Yawkey-Riverway
1) Hynes probably has more proven demand than Kenmore
2) It looks like they're routing it under Boyleston St
3) I suspect "Yawkey" is actually Boyleston@Yawkey
-or- they went for a CR connection over saving 1 stop for B/C riders
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It's also possible that the stop spacing between Kenmore and "Yawkey" would have been too tight, particularly for HRT...
 
Proposition Joe said:
I would much rather that the Blue Line go to Kenmore and not Yawkey than the opposite.
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Why? Yawkey serves Kenmore Square fine, and would allow for Blue/DMU transfers in addition to Blue/Green. It picks up Hines and the Prudential Center for the Blue Line as well.

The logistics... I don't know. But from a a service perspective it actually seems better.
 
Equilibria said:
Why? Yawkey serves Kenmore Square fine, and would allow for Blue/DMU transfers in addition to Blue/Green. It picks up Hines and the Prudential Center for the Blue Line as well.

The logistics... I don't know. But from a a service perspective it actually seems better.
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I agree. They got their Blue/Green connection, but chose Hynes over Kenmore because, when you include Prudential, it is the much bigger demand generator that you might as well serve directly.

Then they chose to serve Kenmore from the "side" that's really getting built up: Boylston@Yawkey. This is probably smoother at ballgame time too to have a whole station in the "other direction"

I like it. Frankly, I'd delete the Riverway stop and just make sure to put two entrances on "Yawkey" (a "Landmark" and a "Yawkey Way")
 
Because you have an in station transfer for Blue->Green and Green->Blue. It's simpler and cheaper for people who use the system.

DMUs and Commuter Rail are going to have a different payment scheme so jumping out of Kenmore and paying to get to the purple and indigo trains is less of a problem.

edit: Okay I had a brain fart and forgot that they connected at Hynes, but I do prefer Kenmore to Hynes mostly because of its proximity to Fenway Park and I think having a rapid transit line go directly to the park helps congestion on the Green Line, as opposed to everyone taking it to Hynes and then hopping on the Green Line anyways.

Also I'm not sure how the Blue Line would get from Hynes->Yawkey->Fenway in a cost efficient manner and Yawkey and Fenway would be pretty close to one another.
 
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