Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

[citylover94]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I am not sure what you are talking about it looks to me like 133 federal is not going anywhere. The only time they mention phasing is as an option and the only demolition in phase 2 is of the garage on the Federal Street side of the project not the 133 Federal Street building.

Here is a rendering showing the final project base on Federal Street with 133 Federal and its connection to the tower base.

There is no reason they can't renovate and activate the ground floor of 133 Federal even if they aren't selected and that is mostly the "advantage" they talk about is activating 285 feet of continuous frontage. This picture is connected with the paragraphs addressing the increased length of frontage under control of one developer being an advantage.

 

[odurandina]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

??? Their proposal calls for demolishing 133 Federal Street; it is a major part of the site for Phase 2 of construction.

Yes, that was their original plan.... then sometime last year they walked it back.

Are they back again with removing the building?

 

[citylover94]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

No they are not look at my post directly above yours. They are not planning on demolishing 133 Federal it is very clear in there plans that all they plan on doing is a renovation and adding some retail space.

 

[whighlander]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

No they are not look at my post directly above yours. They are not planning on demolishing 133 Federal it is very clear in there plans that all they plan on doing is a renovation and adding some retail space.

CityLover -- i think everyone is right

Page 14 of their proposal -- there is no sign of 133 Federal and the title is

View along transformed Federal Street

Page 21 -- there is 133 Federal and part of the Entrepreneurial & Office Podium and the title is

View of Federal Street connection, if phased

So like a politician giving a speech to two different groups tailored to the needs and wants of the group

The emphasis on the TransNational proposal can be either:
we preserved 133 Federal in the phased project to allow some continuity or to begin the Entrepreneurship program early -- versus
we took 133 down to optimize the construction on a clean sheet


Your choice Mr/Ms BRA

 

[citylover94]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

The page 14 image clearly cuts off the edge of 133 Federal Street as it is out of frame on the left.

 

[dwash59]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

No they are not look at my post directly above yours. They are not planning on demolishing 133 Federal it is very clear in there plans that all they plan on doing is a renovation and adding some retail space.

Page 99 literally says

The 133 Federal Street building is demolished

 

[odurandina]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Thanks. i can't be rid of it fast enough.

 

[lapradetom]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

CityLover -- i think everyone is right

Page 14 of their proposal -- there is no sign of 133 Federal and the title is

Page 21 -- there is 133 Federal and part of the Entrepreneurial & Office Podium and the title is


So like a politician giving a speech to two different groups tailored to the needs and wants of the group

The emphasis on the TransNational proposal can be either:
we preserved 133 Federal in the phased project to allow some continuity or to begin the Entrepreneurship program early -- versus
we took 133 down to optimize the construction on a clean sheet


Your choice Mr/Ms BRA

^If you read their BRA/PDF, Transnational leaves a lot open for further input and changes to their proposal. Which could be good or bad, because their proposal is the least set-in-stone plan. That's the impression I got while reading it.

 

[Justin7]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Am I the only one who likes 133 (other than the fixable street level)?

 

[datadyne007]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Am I the only one who likes 133 (other than the fixable street level)?

No. It is a Paul Rudolph masterpiece and deserves to be saved.

 

[whighlander]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

No. It is a Paul Rudolph masterpiece and deserves to be saved.

Data -- Am I the only one who thinks that the best way to save Paul Rudolph is through photography just before the buildings are leveled -- well OK keep the ruin of the church in the Back Bay

his buildings are kind of like the Soviet Union -- a paradigm of what not to do in the future

the Rudolf buildings [at least the ones in Boston possibly excepting the church since it already was a ruin] were all a big waste of resources most importantly land -- case in point the "Hurley"

Though I reluctantly admit that if you wanted to have a Paul Rudolf for your gallery -- that this one is probably the least offensive

 

[odurandina]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

^^Level every one of his horrors starting with the State Service Center.

 

[whighlander]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

^^Level every one of his horrors starting with the State Service Center.

Oduranddina -- Right On Bro!!

When the Revolution Comes that is the first one to go

Talk about the best location for a super tall [Boston-scale] -- that might be it -- a bit further from the runways, near several T stations

 

[lapradetom]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Data -- Am I the only one who thinks that the best way to save Paul Rudolph is through photography just before the buildings are leveled -- well OK keep the ruin of the church in the Back Bay

his buildings are kind of like the Soviet Union -- a paradigm of what not to do in the future

the Rudolf buildings [at least the ones in Boston possibly excepting the church since it already was a ruin] were all a big waste of resources most importantly land -- case in point the "Hurley"

Though I reluctantly admit that if you wanted to have a Paul Rudolf for your gallery -- that this one is probably the least offensive

^^No one ever let poor Rudolph play in any reindeer games, nor like his buildings? Wikipedia shows some of his designs, which are pretty cool.

 

[datadyne007]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Some clarifications on my previous comments stating that HYM owns the Shrine parcel. That was incorrect. St. Anthony Shrine & Ministry Center, Franciscan Friars of Holy Name Province (HNP) is listed as "Owner/Partner" in the RFP booklet. HYM is developing this in partnership with HNP. Apologies for the misinformation.

Also, Marty really loves the Shrine:

“The Shrine is such an integral part of not just
downtown but our entire City of Boston.”
— Martin J. Walsh
Mayor, City of Boston

 

[DBM]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

^^Level every one of his horrors starting with the State Service Center.

I think within this particular neighborhood context, this Rudolph building is challenged by the presence of nearby Brutalist buildings that to my perspective seem far more compelling and worth preserving:

70 Federal St. (aka Fidelity building) literally on the same street

10-24 School St. (aka Walgreens building) best in breed. period.

City Hall--I'm of the camp that it's the plaza that's the issue and the building is fine, although I'm sure others want the entire site nuked.

Although I've been told the "Y"-shaped pillars at the base of 133 Fed. are a nod to Rudolph's beloved alma mater, which is kind of charming. Still, this particular Brutalist exemplar doesn't do it for me.

 

[Lisbon]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I think within this particular neighborhood context, this Rudolph building is challenged by the presence of nearby Brutalist buildings that to my perspective seem far more compelling and worth preserving:

70 Federal St. (aka Fidelity building) literally on the same street

10-24 School St. (aka Walgreens building) best in breed. period.

City Hall--I'm of the camp that it's the plaza that's the issue and the building is fine, although I'm sure others want the entire site nuked.

Although I've been told the "Y"-shaped pillars at the base of 133 Fed. are a nod to Rudolph's beloved alma mater, which is kind of charming. Still, this particular Brutalist exemplar doesn't do it for me.

Agreed that the Brutalist buildings you mention are more compelling than Rudolph's at 133 Fed. The "Y"-shaped pillars are my favorite part of the building because they remind me of the tridents at the base of Yamasaki's World Trade Center towers. Aside from the base, I'm not 133 Fed's biggest fan. I'm torn as to whether or not it deserves to be saved.

 

[Lrfox]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Agreed that the Brutalist buildings you mention are more compelling than Rudolph's at 133 Fed. The "Y"-shaped pillars are my favorite part of the building because they remind me of the tridents at the base of Yamasaki's World Trade Center towers. Aside from the base, I'm not 133 Fed's biggest fan. I'm torn as to whether or not it deserves to be saved.

70 Federal has always been among my favorites in the area. The glass/concrete ratio is perfect. I do think 133 Federal is worthy of saving. having better neighbors would help. I also think some steps could be taken to make the street level better (though it has the best ground floor in the immediate area which isn't saying much).

While it currently shares some color/texture with the adjacent garage (which detracts from 133 Federal), it will provide a nice contrast to its new neighbor (whichever proposal that may be). I'm torn on Brutalist architecture in general (I don't care for city hall and I work in the State Services Center which is in terrible condition), I do like this one.

 

[JumboBuc]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I'd be much rather see 133 Federal stay than go.

Any time I am considering whether I would support the replacement of a building, I ask myself two questions:
1) Could that building be recreated today, retaining all of its architectural significance and not losing any significant historical significance?
2) Would any displaced occupants of this building be able to find a suitable and comparable new home?

If the answer to both of these questions is "yes", then by all means, tear it down and rebuild as densely at possible. If the answer to both of these questions is "no", then that building should (95% of the time) be protected. If the answers are divided (a "yes" and a "no") then I put more weight on question one than question two and have a slight bias towards preservation.

With the Winthrop St Garage, clearly the answer to both questions is "yes". Tear that thing down and build build build. With 133 Federal, all occupants would likely be able to find a suitable replacement home but the building is architecturally significant in a way that could not be recreated today, so once we lose it it's never coming back. I lean towards preservation.

 

[datadyne007]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Rudolph's Blue Cross/Blue Shield Building (133 Federal) is a highly innovative example of modernism. It was Rudolph's first tall building (a pivotal point in his transition from Mid-Century Modern houses to brutalism) and he didn't skimp on the slightest details, finding brilliant new ways to think about how building structure & skin can interact with & accommodate the building's MEP elements: