General MBTA Topics (Multi Modal, Budget, MassDOT)

Massachusetts Governor Charlie Baker announced new passenger rail service is coming to western Massachusetts next year.

Speaking in Springfield’s Union Station Tuesday, the Republican governor said a deal has been finalized to have Amtrak operate commuter trains between Springfield and Greenfield on a pilot basis starting in 2019.

"That is going to leverage the MassDOT-owned Knowledge Corridor, which is currently used by Amtrak's Vermonter service and the recent renovations that have been made here at Union Station," Baker said.

The announcement by Baker comes just days before the launch of new train service on the Hartford Line between Springfield and New Haven.

Baker also announced the state will request bids starting Wednesday to hire a consultant to do the long sought feasibility study of connecting Boston and Springfield by high speed rail. He said the anticipated time frame for the study is 12-18 months

"It will give us the chance to take a comprehensive look at all the options possible and to make the best decision going forward for the Commonwealth and for the region," said Baker.

The study is to include rail service to Pittsfield along with a possible stop in Palmer
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http://wamc.org/post/commuter-trains-run-north-springfield-starting-2019
 
About a year from now, travelers will be able to leave Greenfield on a morning train, make it to Manhattan's Grand Central Terminal in 4 hours, 15 minutes and be assured that there'll be a night train home that same day.

The commonwealth of Massachusetts has an agreement with Connecticut authorities and Amtrak to provide on a pilot basis two extended daily CTrail trains from Springfield with stops in Holyoke, Northampton and Greenfield.

One train will run in the morning and one later in the day -- both north and south -- on the Knowledge Corridor line paralleling the Connecticut River.

The only train traveling north of Springfield now is Amtrak's Vermonter, which runs once a day in each direction.

The pilot project, revealed Tuesday by Gov. Charlie Baker at a news conference in Springfield's Union Station, will cost Massachusetts $1 million a year to operate and is expected to draw 24,000 passengers an year, said Massachusetts Secretary of Transportation Stephanie Pollack.

Pollack said Massachusetts will run the trains for 30 to 36 months and then evaluate usage. Amtrak will provide the rolling stock.
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https://www.masslive.com/business-n...expanded_north-south_rail_service_from_s.html
 
Although a Springfield to NYC trip will cost a good bit more then a local trip. I'd expect it to be at least 25 bucks or more in fare revenue.
 
I was under the understanding once upon a time that some of this planned service for the NHHS included one or more trips Boston <-> New Haven via Hartford/Springfield. Is that still in the cards?
 
jklo said:
Don't know why Pols are so obsessed with Trains to Nowhere. First South Coast Rail and now this.
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No. Not a valid comparison.

Knowledge Corridor:

1) is an intercity service, more for the "super commuter" (to CT and NY), similar to Maine's Downeaster (which serves a college, second home, & "weekly meeting in the city" clientele). This is NOT similar to MBTA Commuter rail (which has to tie performance directly to the office workday and a daily commute...SCR is too long a trip at too low frequencies).

2) uses infrastructure that already exists, not similar to SCR's multi-billion dollar need to build/rebuild from scratch

3) Has proven demand (via the Vermonter) and patterns of affinity. Folks (college kids & second home people) along the line can & do currently maintain connections in Hartford, New Haven, Stamford and NYC and do use the train, unlike SCR where the train is not part of a long-established college or second home affinity.

4) Is an extension of existing trains (so analogous to the Cape Flyer or the T's Rhode Island services), and so can piggy back at lower costs

5) This is a pilot project. If it doesn't work (like Greenbush didn't) we haven't blown billions of wasted capital construction (and bond borrowing), unlike SCR (and Greenbush) where politicians keep operating lines with sucky ridership rather than admit they spent a bazillion dollars on rails that carry too few trains or people.

6) Twice the Population. Pioneer Valley = 600k ~ 700k. South Coast = 300k ~ 400k

The commonwealth of Massachusetts has an agreement with Connecticut authorities [as CTrail sponsor] and Amtrak [as train operator] to provide on a pilot basis two extended daily CTrail trains from Springfield with stops in Holyoke, Northampton and Greenfield.
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If SCR served twice as large a population, on an intercity schedule, on exsiting-extended trains, on a modern rail corridor, its pilot would work and we'd be dialing in an operating subsidy as a rounding error in the overall ops budget. SCR's problems come from the costs & risks of its capital construction, not that trains from Mass can't work from lesser places to the big city.
 
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Arlington said:
No. Not a valid comparison.

Knowledge Corridor:

1) is an intercity service, more for the "super commuter" (to CT and NY), similar to Maine's Downeaster (which serves a college, second home, & "weekly meeting in the city" clientele). This is NOT similar to MBTA Commuter rail (which has to tie performance directly to the office workday and a daily commute...SCR is too long a trip at too low frequencies).

2) uses infrastructure that already exists, not similar to SCR's multi-billion dollar need to build/rebuild from scratch

3) Has proven demand (via the Vermonter) and patterns of affinity. Folks (college kids & second home people) along the line can & do currently maintain connections in Hartford, New Haven, Stamford and NYC and do use the train, unlike SCR where the train is not part of a long-established college or second home affinity.

4) Is an extension of existing trains (so analogous to the Cape Flyer or the T's Rhode Island services), and so can piggy back at lower costs

5) This is a pilot project. If it doesn't work (like Greenbush didn't) we haven't blown billions of wasted capital construction (and bond borrowing), unlike SCR (and Greenbush) where politicians keep operating lines with sucky ridership rather than admit they spent a bazillion dollars on rails that carry too few trains or people.

6) Twice the Population. Pioneer Valley = 600k ~ 700k. South Coast = 300k ~ 400k



If SCR served twice as large a population, on an intercity schedule, on exsiting-extended trains, on a modern rail corridor, its pilot would work and we'd be dialing in an operating subsidy as a rounding error in the overall ops budget. SCR's problems come from the costs & risks of its capital construction, not that trains from Mass can't work from lesser places to the big city.
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Just wanted to say this is a fantastic post. Thanks.
 
Arlington said:
No. Not a valid comparison.

Knowledge Corridor:

1) is an intercity service, more for the "super commuter" (to CT and NY), similar to Maine's Downeaster (which serves a college, second home, & "weekly meeting in the city" clientele). This is NOT similar to MBTA Commuter rail (which has to tie performance directly to the office workday and a daily commute...SCR is too long a trip at too low frequencies).

2) uses infrastructure that already exists, not similar to SCR's multi-billion dollar need to build/rebuild from scratch

3) Has proven demand (via the Vermonter) and patterns of affinity. Folks (college kids & second home people) along the line can & do currently maintain connections in Hartford, New Haven, Stamford and NYC and do use the train, unlike SCR where the train is not part of a long-established college or second home affinity.

4) Is an extension of existing trains (so analogous to the Cape Flyer or the T's Rhode Island services), and so can piggy back at lower costs

5) This is a pilot project. If it doesn't work (like Greenbush didn't) we haven't blown billions of wasted capital construction (and bond borrowing), unlike SCR (and Greenbush) where politicians keep operating lines with sucky ridership rather than admit they spent a bazillion dollars on rails that carry too few trains or people.

6) Twice the Population. Pioneer Valley = 600k ~ 700k. South Coast = 300k ~ 400k



If SCR served twice as large a population, on an intercity schedule, on exsiting-extended trains, on a modern rail corridor, its pilot would work and we'd be dialing in an operating subsidy as a rounding error in the overall ops budget. SCR's problems come from the costs & risks of its capital construction, not that trains from Mass can't work from lesser places to the big city.
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Also want to say that these are excellent points.

I’d like to point out that Springfield-Holyoke-Northampton is a pretty well developed area. Greenfield is a bit out in the boonies, but its a local hub. I think if this pilot program works, we might see more trains skipping the Greenfield stop.
 
It is also worth noting that the pilot is projected to cost just $1m per year!

That puts it in the "how could you not try it?" price range, even if it results in a per-passenger subsidy of $40 ($1m/24kpax)

The pilot basically costs less than your typical ridership study and gets results, not estimates.
 
Fully agree with Arlington.

Seems like a good low risk project.
 
It does look like the pilot is going to require a cross platform transfer if people want to continue past New Haven, which might somewhat depress ridership numbers relative to what is possible.

The big reason that is typically cited for not running more trains from New York City to Boston is the Connecticut River bridge at Old Saybrook, and the route to Springfield doesn't go through that bottleneck. However, the fourth track between Bridgeport and New Haven probably also should be put back to add more capacity, and I'm not sure if shell interlocking (near New Rochelle, where the trains going to New York Penn Station separate from the trains going to Grand Central Terminal) is still a bottleneck these days.

The CTrail timetable seems to leave out the Vermonter. Does that mean it doesn't have the lower fares available? Or are they concerned about its on time performance?

Is extending the Greenfield pilot into Vermont an option if Vermont finds a few millions of dollars?

Does a comprehensive study of Springfield to Boston high speed rail options include looking at building track for part of the route along I-90?
 
Arlington said:
1) is an intercity service, more for the "super commuter" (to CT and NY), similar to Maine's Downeaster (which serves a college, second home, & "weekly meeting in the city" clientele).
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I guess when reading the article they made it sound like people would use that for daily commuting purposes into NYC, and was like what. Even super commuting as you say it is too far. 4+ hours, and the fare from GCT to New Haven is already $23 one way so it's not exactly cheap. I think College kids would use the bus as long as it's cheaper. Springfield might just due to it's location have more bus service than say Vermont.

Maybe it could be used as commuting from Springfield into Hartford as another option.
 
jklo said:
I guess when reading the article they made it sound like people would use that for daily commuting purposes into NYC, and was like what. Even super commuting as you say it is too far. 4+ hours, and the fare from GCT to New Haven is already $23 one way so it's not exactly cheap. I think College kids would use the bus as long as it's cheaper. Springfield might just due to it's location have more bus service than say Vermont.

Maybe it could be used as commuting from Springfield into Hartford as another option.
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Even broke college kids hate screaming babies. I know I took the train whenever possible for that reason alone.
 
I kinda like the Congress option best. They make a good point that we don't need to keep the stations in the same place, which were dictated by circumstantial over 100 years ago, and can be built closer to where people need to go.
 
Joel N. Weber II said:
The CTrail timetable seems to leave out the Vermonter. Does that mean it doesn't have the lower fares available? Or are they concerned about its on time performance?
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Correct it is excluded. I assume they want to save seats for the long-distance customers.
 
Parking prices will go up at 32 T stations, to as high as $10 a day — but drop at others

For those who can't get by the pay-wall, I'll summarize below:

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They are decreasing the price from from $4 to $2 on weekends at the following stations:

Abington, Andover, Ashland, Auburndale, Ballardvale, Bellevue, Bradford, Brandeis, Bridgewater, Butler, Campello, Canton Center, Canton Junction, Cohasset, Dedham Corporate Center, East Weymouth, Fairmount, Forge Park, Framingham, Franklin, Gloucester, Grafton, Halifax, Hamilton, Hanson, Haverhill, Hersey, Highland, Hingham, Holbrook, Hyde Park, Islington, Kingston, Littleton, Lynn, Mattapan, Middleborough, Milton, Montello, Montserrat, Nantasket, Needham Heights, Needham Junction, Newburyport, Norfolk, North Beverly, North Scituate, Norwood Central, Norwood Depot, Plymouth, Reading, Readville, Roslindale Village, Rowley, South Attleboro, South Weymouth, Southborough, Stoughton, Swampscott, Wakefield, Walpole, West Gloucester, West Hingham, West Natick, West Newton, West Roxbury, Westborough, Weymouth Landing, Whitman, and Wilmington.

The stations in bold will increase from $4 to $6 on weekdays due to high demand (while still decreasing to just $2 on weekends).

The stations in italics will decrease from $4 to $2 every day of the week: weekends and weekdays.

The other stations are staying at $4 on weekdays (while dropping to $2 on weekends).

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They are decreasing the price from from $5 to $2 on weekends at the following stations:

Beverly Depot and Salem, Suffolk Downs, West Medford, Wollaston, and Wonderland

Wonderland will increase from $5 to $7 on weekdays due to high demand (while still decreasing to just $2 on weekends).

The stations in italics will decrease from $5 to $2 every day of the week: weekends and weekdays.

The other stations are staying at $5 on weekdays (while dropping to $2 on weekends).

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They are decreasing the price from from $5 to $2.50 on weekends at the following stations:

Beachmont, Orient Heights, Savin Hill, Watertown

Savin Hill will increase from $5 to $7.50 on weekdays.

The other stations are staying at $5 on weekdays (while dropping to $2.50 on weekends).

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Some more expensive stations:

  • Riverside and Woodland will stay $6 on weekdays, and decrease to $3 on weekends.
  • Route 128 will stay $7 on weekdays, and decrease to $3 on weekends.
  • North Quincy will go from $5 to $7.50 on weekdays and $3 on weekends.
  • Malden Center will go from $6 to $7.50 on weekdays and $3 on weekends.
  • Chestnut Hill, Eliot, Forest Hills, Oak Grove, and Waban will go from $6 to $9 on weekdays and $3 on weekends.
  • Wellington will go from $6 to $9 on weekdays and $4 on weekends.
  • Alewife, Braintree, and Quincy Adams will go from $7 to $10 on weekdays and $3 on weekends.
  • Sullivan will go from $6 to $9 on weekdays and stay $6 on weekends.

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Some of my own takeaways:
  1. It's good that they are decreasing the price of parking at these often empty and overpriced suburban Commuter Rail lots. The Commuter Rail is very underutilized on weekends (relative to comparable systems elsewhere) and one of the reasons is that it is not competitively priced. Slashing the price of parking and introducing the $10 weekend-long any-zone fare are two very good steps in the right direction.
  2. Two suburban Commuter Rail stations jump out at me for the same reason: Littleton/Route 495 and South Attleboro. Their lots are going up in price on weekdays (from $4 to $6). They are park-and-ride oriented stations next to highways, and serve to take cars of the road and convince highway drivers to "park and ride." If the price of parking gets too high, they do not serve their purpose, and turn people away. If the parking lots are full, they also turn people away. These stations have become very popular, which is great! But, to adequately serve their purpose, they are both in need of parking garages to increase the amount of parking.
  3. Similarly, other Commuter Rail stations jump out at me for a different reason: Auburndale, Reading/Wakefield, and Southborough/Westborough. All five of these stations are also increasing from $4 to $6 on weekdays due to demand. None of these stations were originally built as highway park-and-rides and none are particularly well-suited to serve that purpose, but have fallen into that role due to a lack of options. This underscores the need for well-positioned park-n-rides (similar to Littleton/495 or Route 128 Station) to adequately serve today's commuters:
    • Auburndale. The Worcester Line crosses I-95 (128) right at the Mass Pike junction. This would be the perfect location for a park-n-ride. Instead, commuters are trying to use Auburndale (a small neighborhood station that's not right next to a highway exit) as a park-n-ride. Hence why there is the need to raise the parking rate from $4 to $6 on weekdays. It would take some careful planning to build, but the demand is there for a big park-n-ride station and garage/lot, with it's own dedicated exit from the Pike and/or I-95 in Newton or Weston. Mega-dream: extend the D Branch of the Green Line one-stop to this new multi-modal station.
    • Southborough/Westborough. The Worcester Line also crossing I-495 right at the Mass Pike junction. Yet, there's also no station there. Talk about a wasted opportunity! There's plenty of land to make it happen. This area is between the Southborough and Westborough stations. Both are inefficiently located to serve highway commuters, but enough commuters try to use them, hence the increase in weekday price from $4 to $6. The Worcester Line needs both of these park-n-rides (Weston/Newton I-95 & Westborough/I-495).
    • Reading/Wakefield. The Haverhill Line is also lacking adequate park-n-rides. The Haverhill Line crosses 128 (I-95) in the Wakefield/Reading area, in between Reading and Wakefield Stations, but the line does not have a good highway adjacent park-n-ride. Those who take the Lowell Line, use Woburn/Anderson Station as such. But for the Haverhill Line, these stations are in town centers, and not conducive to serving highway drivers. This is why the MBTA feels the need to raise parking prices at these stations from $4 to $6 at these stops. A better long-term solution: a big park-n-ride station by I-95 to serve these commuters.
  4. Blue Line Extension. Wonderland will increase from $5 to $7 on weekdays due to high demand. Clearly a lot of commuters are coming from further out to park here and take the Blue Line in. This further shows how high the demand is for extending the Blue Line beyond Wonderland (to Lynn and possibly beyond). In addition to this extension, extending the Blue Line to Charles/MGH and beyond will further encourage commuters from the North Shore to take mass transit, and will better serve these commuters.
  5. Orange Line Extension. Forest Hills will go from $6 to $9 on weekdays due to high demand. The problem is that Forest Hills is right smack dab in a dense neighborhood: JP, on crowded city streets. Extending to Orange Line to Roslindale will at least relieve some of this pressure. Ultimately, I think the region needs the Orange Line to be extended to 128 (either in Westwood or Needham).
  6. Red Line Extension. Alewife will go from $7 to $10 on weekdays due to high demand. This was never meant to be the end of the line, and the strain is showing. A lot of commuters are coming from Arlington, Belmont, Lexington, Waltham, etc, and parking here. Extending the Red Line to Arlington would be a start. Ultimately, similar to the Orange Line, the Red Line needs to be extended to 128 (either in Waltham or Lexington).

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Sorry for the long spiel. I just kind of went stream-of-consciousness.
 
Alewife to $10... ouch. That'll probably get people to drive in to Cambridge more.

Auburndale's parking lot is tiny. People there could easily drive to Riverside or Wellesley Farms, but chose not to. I remember seeing plenty of cars parked out on the street too nearby, I assumed they were freeloaders.
 
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