2016 Presidential Election (General Election)

Who do plan to support for President in the 2016 Election?

  • Hillary Clinton

    Votes: 38 62.3%
  • Donald Trump

    Votes: 6 9.8%
  • Gary Johnson

    Votes: 11 18.0%
  • Jill Stein

    Votes: 3 4.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 3 4.9%

  • Total voters
    61
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According to this article, roughly 1 in 12 newborns in this country is an anchor baby. Who the heck is paying for all this? One more untenable policy for a country that is $20 trillion in debt. By the way, let me write that out the long way....

The US is $20,000,000,000,000 IN DEBT! How much longer can we keep kicking the can in regards to this? How much longer can we support the rest of the world? It's time to stop thinking of this as some abstract problem. We need to start making the difficult decisions now in order to avoid a catastrophic collapse in the future.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andyjse...-of-anchor-babies-and-surrogacy/#6d9a46ff1b88

They said Rome couldn't fall. They said the Titanic couldn't sink. What makes the US so infallible?

A wise Democrat named John F Kennedy (some of you may have heard of him) once said "Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country." When I look around at where we are today, it appears this message doesn't resonate the way that it used to. Too many people seem to want the output (example: welfare) without putting in the input (working, paying taxes). It's really a systematic failure, and the corporate giveaways are just as damaging, if not moreso, as the personal giveaways. But any way you look at it, we are giving away too much and it's unsustainable.
 
I can't believe this thread is still going.

Actually, yes I can, very much so.

At least aB has somewhere other than actual aB threads to post this manure in.
 
According to this article, roughly 1 in 12 newborns in this country is an anchor baby. Who the heck is paying for all this? One more untenable policy for a country that is $20 trillion in debt. By the way, let me write that out the long way....

The US is $20,000,000,000,000 IN DEBT! How much longer can we keep kicking the can in regards to this? How much longer can we support the rest of the world? It's time to stop thinking of this as some abstract problem. We need to start making the difficult decisions now in order to avoid a catastrophic collapse in the future.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andyjse...-of-anchor-babies-and-surrogacy/#6d9a46ff1b88

They said Rome couldn't fall. They said the Titanic couldn't sink. What makes the US so infallible?

A wise Democrat named John F Kennedy (some of you may have heard of him) once said "Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country." When I look around at where we are today, it appears this message doesn't resonate the way that it used to. Too many people seem to want the output (example: welfare) without putting in the input (working, paying taxes). It's really a systematic failure, and the corporate giveaways are just as damaging, if not moreso, as the personal giveaways. But any way you look at it, we are giving away too much and it's unsustainable.

So what's your solution, Trump?
 
According to this article, roughly 1 in 12 newborns in this country is an anchor baby. Who the heck is paying for all this? One more untenable policy for a country that is $20 trillion in debt. By the way, let me write that out the long way....

The US is $20,000,000,000,000 IN DEBT! How much longer can we keep kicking the can in regards to this? How much longer can we support the rest of the world? It's time to stop thinking of this as some abstract problem. We need to start making the difficult decisions now in order to avoid a catastrophic collapse in the future.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andyjse...-of-anchor-babies-and-surrogacy/#6d9a46ff1b88

They said Rome couldn't fall. They said the Titanic couldn't sink. What makes the US so infallible?

A wise Democrat named John F Kennedy (some of you may have heard of him) once said "Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country." When I look around at where we are today, it appears this message doesn't resonate the way that it used to. Too many people seem to want the output (example: welfare) without putting in the input (working, paying taxes). It's really a systematic failure, and the corporate giveaways are just as damaging, if not moreso, as the personal giveaways. But any way you look at it, we are giving away too much and it's unsustainable.


DZH, I echo others' sentiments that it is admirable how level-headly and objectively you are presenting your arguments compared to others who share some of the conservative ideologies, and that it is clearly you are not a blind follower of either party. Kudos to that, as it is a high-road approach we could use more of.

But I sense that your argument has two different parts. Your first is that our current system is prone to gamesmanship (e.g., anchor babies), which points to a need for what we might call immigration or citizenship reform. It would seem that such reforms could conceivably be done wisely, fairly, and in an unbiased fashion. I will not pretend to know any answers, but these laws were invented by humans in the first place so they are likely not optimized and can be improved.

Your second notion, that immigrants are by nature leeches, not hard working, not "pulling their weight" is the one I take exception to (admittedly with more passion and less fact than this forum deserves). We all carry our core values, and mine point toward not assuming that an immigrant is going to be a leech. Many immigrants are exceptionally hard working, doing jobs Americans don't want, for wages less than Americans are willing to accept. Many work extraordinarily hard and certainly pull their weight. In an earlier post, I pointed out that there are MANY things that strain the U.S.'s infrastructure, some of which are contributed to most largely by existing citizens. In past periods it was the immigrants that built the new and improved infrastructure that the nation rests on (for lower wages than they probably deserved).

All I am saying is there's a different between "putting up walls", "instilling quotas," and assuming that an immigrant is an automatic leech, as compared to reforming laws and processes. It's conceivable there's a fair policy to reduce the anchor baby effect, and I would be open to hearing those ideas. But until then, my values point toward giving people a chance - particularly refugees, who were born into situations that are not their fault, and who aren't just out there trying to get paid more.
 
So what's your solution, Trump?

This is a shitty term. If you want to be taken seriously you should avoid it.

I posted a Forbes article that literally uses the term "Anchor Baby" in the title. I saw it posted today on Yahoo. You are both attacking the term while ignoring the message.

The message is 1 out of 12, or over 8% of all newborns in the US come from non-American parents, and are given automatic citizenship. We are then on the hook, as a country, to care for these children if the parents are unable to afford it. One example given in the article is the woman who showed up pregnant with zika, and her baby unsurprisingly has microcephaly. The estimate is that the US would have to cover $1 million to take care of this child. That's $0 in, and $1,000,000 out. Granted, this is a special case due to the baby's condition, but the point stands that we are suddenly on the hook to take care of more non-Americans, due to a loophole.

Also, every time I mention that we are $20 trillion in debt, that seems to get ignored amid your ad hominem attacks. It is completely brushed off, like it isn't real at all, and doesn't matter at all. It may not "matter" today, but one day we are going to be expected to pay that back. How is that going to happen?

So basically, because I am willing to pose the hard questions that you have no good answers for, I am automatically a Trump/bigot/xenophone/racist/hater/pos. I got it.

Let's say there are 26 major issues we are dealing with today. We'll call them ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ. Both parties seem to be completely polarized, toeing the party line across all 26 issues. Isn't that why we are so divided? Isn't that the problem here? Because I won't drink either party's Kool-Aid 26 times, I am automatically a pariah. Well, I have a better term for it. I'm a free thinker, and it's free thinkers who are going to decide this election, and hopefully every election going forward. I probably side, wholeheartedly, with Democrats on a solid 15 of those issues. But when I question some of the other ones, I am automatically attacked. That's ridiculous. I honestly expected better of the people on this forum. You are so blinded that a person cannot disagree on anything, through A-Z, without being under siege.

So you know, forget it. I love skyscrapers, not politics. I don't need this stupid subforum. I'm done with it. You can go back to looking at my pics and ignoring my opinions. I don't care. The pics make me happier than any of this shit.

In closing, may the worst candidate lose.
 
I posted a Forbes article that literally uses the term "Anchor Baby" in the title. I saw it posted today on Yahoo. You are both attacking the term while ignoring the message.

So did you read the Moody's assessment of what will happen if Trump's policies are enacted - about the US economy going off a cliff?
 
So did you read the Moody's assessment of what will happen if Trump's policies are enacted - about the US economy going off a cliff?

He didn't say he supported trump or his economic policies. Your criticism of DZH is unfair. What he said is that both candidates suck.
 
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You're delusional: if warren really believed what she says about the bankers- warren would have supported Bernie sanders but instead played politics to the clintons who is supported by wall st.

Either your very stupid and have bad judgement in people or you are supporting a complete fraud.

Warren contradicts herself-- she is a complete fraud. Why didn't she support Bernie as she claims the bankers have rigged the system?

Because she told her supporters already to back Clinton (who is a blander, more moderate, less passionate version of her) before Bernie even came into the picture. She's not a "flip-flopper"

I know I just contradicted common knowledge of when she made a public endorsement, however I'm referring to the email she sent us all saying she will not run in the primary, but she recommended we throw our support behind Clinton instead, who had already voiced her intentions to run. I had never even heard of Bernie Sanders at that point.
 
Elizabeth Warren has sooooo much more power in the Senate than she would as President. That's why she rightly says she did not want to run be President. Warren is a bulldog advocate. Taking her out of the Senate, replacing her with a Baker GOP appointee chrony & then risking her seat in a Special Election is just foolish, which is why she didn't want to be the VP either (regardless of how she answered the "prepared" question that Rachel Maddow asked her). She needs to be in the Senate holding Wall St & the banks accountable while fighting for all the other core Democratic values as well.

The same applies to Bernie too. He has far more power in the Senate. He wouldn't just be able to snap his fingers and give everyone healthcare if he were the President, which is often what he seemed to insinuate & was ultimately the reason many of my friends who were Bernie supporters dropped their support of him before the end of the primaries.

The Office of the Presidency is a rather mundane leadership & commander position rather than a passionate advocacy-focused one. This aspect makes Hillary the perfect candidate for President - she's a proven level-headed, focused leader that can drive policy discussions on both sides of the aisle.
 
He didn't say he supported trump or his economic policies. Your criticism of DZH is unfair. What he said is that both candidates suck.

He didn't have to. His anchor baby/America first diatribe is textbook Trump which will be one of the key elements in crashing the United States economy.
 
He didn't have to. His anchor baby/America first diatribe is textbook Trump which will be one of the key elements in crashing the United States economy.

Yea, Americans need to accept that globalization won. Any/all low skill jobs have transitioned to a fully worldwide labor supply - that battle is over. Trying to use border protectionism as a way to preserve low skill jobs in the U.S. is a losing battle.

The U.S. economy will only be preserved by the U.S. making most creative use of our labor force and capital. We need to be cutting-edge innovative, we need provide the best quality services, we need to design better products - we need to do all the things that can't be taken for granted. We've already lost the battle of the "for granted" stuff...time to move on.

And for those of us with a global respect and human rights mindset, if there is indeed to be a rank-order of most dominant countries in the world, then one of the only ethical ways to look at that is that we ought to earn our spot at the top by "competing on innovation," not competing on petty stuff like a bunch of self-preserving whiners.

This border protectionism crap completely misses the point
(and is usually racist)
 
He didn't have to. His anchor baby/America first diatribe is textbook Trump which will be one of the key elements in crashing the United States economy.

Voting for Trump would be like siding with my historical worst enemy growing up. Voting for Hillary would be like siding with a cruel ex gf after a particularly nasty breakup. I do not WANT or LIKE either of them. I am not FOR either of them. But let's face it, one of them has to win. That's how the game works. If you dig deep enough, they're both indefensible.

So I stopped drinking the Kool-Aid and I took a step back. Neither party is 100% right nor 100% wrong. On one hand (most of your hands) I am:
For gay marriage.

Believe in manmade climate change. (How are we not poisoning the atmosphere when running your car in the garage for 10 minutes can kill you? How can we have no affect on the planet when fracking has caused Oklahoma to become the earthquake capital of the US?)

Think we need to end the war on (most) drugs, and allow all of the low level offenders to get the hell out of the private prison nightmare we have created.

Believe in useful, educated multiculturalism. You might be surprised to know that I dated a Vietnamese girl for years, took a Hindu girl to prom, lived with (and reupped my lease with) both a Muslim from Kazakhstan, as well as a black girl, and that 2 of my closest friends at UNC were newly here from India and Korea respectively. My favorite neighbor for the last 30 years has been a Sikh male. I do not knee-jerk automatically hate all non-white people. Hell, I am Jewish, so I'm not going to automatically side with the Christian right or anything. But the key to all of my multicultural friends is that they and their families are educated, bring something to the table, and make this country better. They give more than they take. They are thoughtful, accepting, intelligent... They are like most of you on this board. They are what you think of when you say you want more immigrants. The reality is, most of the world is uneducated, has less to offer, and not the type of exceptional people we need. Any foreigner that needs welfare to live in this country should not be in this country. (refugees are a different story but, again, there has to be a limit)

I also wholeheartedly believe that Donald Trump is a dangerous loose cannon and is our best chance of being incinerated within the next 4 years.

On the other hand...

I think police have a difficult job and should be respected. You don't have to LIKE them, but they do a lot of good and they are important.

I'm disgusted at how many people are disrespecting the anthem and the flag. While far (FAR FAR FAAAARRRRR) from perfect, we have more rights and freedoms here than most of the rest of the world.

I'm extremely disappointed with the way Obama's administration handled the last market crash. In simple terms, a bank does something illegal and steals a billion dollars, we fine them 100 million dollars, they profit 900 million dollars, nobody goes to jail, and there is no incentive to stop. Who would have guessed that a bunch of corporate lawyers, like Eric Holder, would refuse to prosecute their own?

Also, I like many Democratic principles on their face, but they don't seem to think about unintended consequences. I'm going to repost this link. Again, I'm Jewish, and the rise of anti-Semitism in the West is something I am concerned with.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/22/middleeast/france-israel-jews-immigration/

Again, I am an independent. Put me in a climate change debate and I will shred the average Republican until they are in a straight-jacket. Out of A-Z, that's issue C. (Climate Change) I am firmly in the Democrat camp on that one. I just happen to examine each issue on its own, instead of saying if I am to the left on A, B, C, and D, I must also be to the left on E-Z. I prefer to examine the evidence. I think statistics are useful, but also easily manipulated. I read CNN, The Huffington Post, Washington Post, Fox News, BBC, and pretty much every news source I can find because I don't totally trust any of them and want a fuller picture.

I am free thinking, and I am worried. I believe Trump is the most dangerous candidate over the next 4-8 years. I believe Hillary's policies could keep us safer in the short term, but make the longer-term future much more volatile. I have 2 young children and worry that the country will be broken beyond repair by the time they are adults.

I have also essentially been to the left my whole life, including being for gay marriage (I'm straight btw) since well before it was in vogue. I really haven't budged on those feelings, but it seems like the line has moved and now I'm to the right of the current left, even though I'm still left of center. I used to refuse to criticize Democrats, but started becoming disenchanted with the party a few years ago. I cannot stomach either candidate and believe we are in a race to the bottom if this is the best the country can do.

Honestly, for those of you who are offended by an independent person who examines each issue individually and decides which are the most important/relevant for me, I am sorry. I am sorry FOR YOU. Just remember, we are all ignorant. Personally, I am ignorant of what it would be like to a woman, or poor, or rich, or black, or Asian, or Christian, or have grown up in another country, or be 10 years older than myself, or 10 years younger than myself. I am ignorant of what it is like to be you, because I haven't walked a mile in your shoes. I don't know what you know. I may not care about what you care about. I may not have all the information (or may have more) than you have on any given issue. I am an individual, and ultimately I am ignorant of what it is like to be living any of the other 7 billion lives on this planet. And so are you. Put your broad brushes away, we are not all the same, we don't all have the same dreams, and we don't all have the same problems. Everybody, including myself, needs to try harder to understand instead of to just accuse. As Americans, we all have the right to our own opinions, our own thoughts, our own ideals, our own causes. I would never fault any of you for having another opinion, because you have led a different life, with different experiences, and have different motivations than I do, which lead to different rationalizations. I just ask that people be more respectful of these differences among us.
 
*peeks in to see what I hath wrought*

bd464d8ba4861c59a01eab3959588c3f3628ece37d7ee5e23bcf04efc2121a4f.jpg
 
The vast majority of countries don't grant birthright citizenship. It's not bigoted to examine this policy. I wish trump examined policies like this, instead of pushing for a very expensive and unreasonable wall. Trump seems to focus on childish and simple solutions to problems, like building a wall, instead of discusting legitimate solutions. Legitimate solutions to curb illegal immigration could be ending birthright citizenship for parents here illegally or on tourist vjsas, better tracking of people who overstay their visas. We could argue all day about how much immigration is too much however I believe that few Americans want 100% open borders.

And DZH I don't think that the Democratic party has moved much to the left. Kmp1284 is a far left poster however she isin't representative of Democratic politicians or the Democratic party as a whole. Even Bernie Sanders commented that open borders serve the interests of wall Street more than the interests of everyday Americans. Hillary Clinton herself is moderate on most issues.
 
Spend a day with a border patrol agent and you might think differently about birthright. Most border agents would support it in a heartbeat.

At the time of this post, my cousin (a secret service agent) is guarding the most hated man in the world, Donald Trump. We were having dinner last night and he was telling me about the time that he was a border patrol agent down in Arizona where he's from. He said that he would sometimes let these old sixty year old Mexican men go free because they weren't safety threats. He also said that the two leading candidates are proposing immigration laws that would deplete an already strained force. He said that many ICE agents are leaving because of either Trump or Clinton.
 
Yea, Americans need to accept that globalization won. Any/all low skill jobs have transitioned to a fully worldwide labor supply - that battle is over. Trying to use border protectionism as a way to preserve low skill jobs in the U.S. is a losing battle

And for those of us with a global respect and human rights mindset, if there is indeed to be a rank-order of most dominant countries in the world, then one of the only ethical ways to look at that is that we ought to earn our spot at the top by "competing on innovation," not competing on petty stuff like a bunch of self-preserving whiners.

This border protectionism crap completely misses the point
(and is usually racist)

Of course globalism won they destroyed the American currency with low interest rates forever and created the American debt slaves.

When the us defaults we will see a new global currency evolve.
 
Kmp1284 is a far left poster however she isin't representative of Democratic politicians or the Democratic party.

Far left? You haven't been here long. Until I moved to London last year I was a far right bitch, at least on fiscal and certain race-related issues.
 
Until I moved to London last year I was a far right bitch, at least on fiscal and certain race-related issues.

Very interesting. We've sparred in the past over liberal vs conservative issues like the minimum wage/respecting minimum wage workers & race in which you took rather far right stances. Because of that, I was surprised to see your relatively mainstream moderate positions in this thread (and thank you for having such a level head and supporting Hillary despite being a republican). I'd be genuinely interested to learn more about how your views have evolved while living in London.

Welcome back, btw. Prior to recently, I haven't seen you post in a while.
 
Very interesting. We've sparred in the past over liberal vs conservative issues like the minimum wage/respecting minimum wage workers & race in which you took rather far right stances. Because of that, I was surprised to see your relatively mainstream moderate positions in this thread (and thank you for having such a level head and supporting Hillary despite being a republican). I'd be genuinely interested to learn more about how your views have evolved while living in London.

Welcome back, btw. Prior to recently, I haven't seen you post in a while.

I'd guess Nationalism, Brexit, and their impact (immediate and long term) on the economic outlook in England. I'd love to hear an insider's take on that too.
 
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