Acela & Amtrak NEC (HSR BOS-NYP-WAS and branches only)

The loco will be impounded for awhile while the NTSB does its thing. But yes, it's repairable. The Siemens factory is still pumping out the last of the Sprinter order and is repairing another collision-damaged unit that hit a car illegally parked on the tracks. It'll probably be back within the next year.

Car #1 was the one that knocked down the catenary pole. Those 1920's vintage poles extremely sturdy with very deep pilings...because on that part of the NEC they carry the high-tension feeder lines high in the sky above the tracks and need to support incredible amounts of wire tension. They were designed to survive collisions with steam-hauled freight trains. And that Amfleet got thrown sideways into it at 100 MPH. And knocked it the hell down. There is no railcar on the planet that would survive that force of impact.

The fact that most of the occupants of that car DID survive is testament to just how sturdy the Amfleets are. The outer shell got shredded entirely off the car and deposited on the grass, and the frame got bent in half...but the frame kept its integrity well enough that most of the occupants walked away. You can see it on the picture...the passenger compartment is intact on both sides of where it got bent by the impact with that pole. Yeah, they're old and not real comfy cars. And yeah, the windows are too small...the evacuees found that out. But Amfleets have a superlative safety record...and this is why. That tubular design distributes crash energy very well. Even on side impacts not covered by all the FRA front-end buff strength regs. They're outstanding railcars. Maybe the best Made-in-the-U.S.A. design of the last 100 years. There may not have been a more survivable car those occupants could have been riding in for this type of impact.


Cars 2's wrecked beyond repair because that got punctured by the end of the fallen pole. 3 & 4...might be repairable, but repairs intensive enough that they'll either be gone awhile or could be scrap candidates to strip for parts. But the last 3 cars that stayed upright...they'll be back.


I think that you once mentioned that the older Viewliner cars would be rehabbed & converted over to business / quiet / coach / café cars, right?

I'm anxious to see what they'll look like inside & out when they're done! That is, if Amtrak still plans to do that. It would be nice to have taller new looking passenger cars for a change. :cool:
 
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I asked this a couple pages back, but it got buried in the derailment coverage....do you have any links to details for the plan to diverge from the current ROW around here?

Not really a map of the area...but the general stuff is in there...the costs in my opinion are double what they should be... Put are worried that 30th Street would be abandoned with this plan , even though NJT and Amtrak would add more services into it...presumably taking the Acela slots... I think the FRA is pushing their plan for Long Island / I-91 / Worcester Route...instead of Amtraks plan North of NYC.

The Next Gen route would follow that abandoned Straight PRR Era Freight spur before descending into a Tunnel....so very land is needed for the Philly Next Gen...same with Baltimore and Wilmington...

r


http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/453/325/Amtrak-Vision-for-the-Northeast-Corridor.pdf
 
I don't know how they'd ever make the freight spur work. Far too narrow and more densely abutted, and draws the line far away from where it needs to go to tie back into anything. If they need to relocate the line to fix Frankford I-95 probably the easier way. They could bank a gentler superelevated curve at that expressway stub interchange next to the river and take several hundred feet's worth of the Atlantic City Line straight into Frankford Jct. to eliminate the speed restriction here. There's still all sorts of thorny issues there and a near-complete rebuild of 95 required to create space. But 95's on an ugly-ass viaduct for most of that route so some grounding into a cut might make it all click. It's a viable possibility if they design it right.

If they need a full bypass of all the SEPTA junctions they can keep going down 95 until it meets with the Center City Tunnel. But then you'd have to do some hellacious expansion of the tunnel for express tracks, introduce a new sharp curve, and mix with more commuter rail traffic. So I'm not sure if the cure is worse than the disease with that one.


Gah...that New Haven bypass is still one giant turd. They contradict too much of their own vision statement skipping Stamford, Bridgeport, and New Haven. Get rid of that; it's a combination of destination suck, physical near-impossibility, and violent community opposition that frankly is very much legit (disclosure: I'm a Bristol, CT native, and the required curve-straightening through downtown hits the same path of the Route 72 expressway that was no-go despite 40 years of debate. For good reason, IMHO). All the density--dating back to colonial times--is on the Post Road/US 1 corridor. And it was there before the railroad was built. There is no avoiding the New Haven Line if you want to get people where they need to go. The Long Island bypass idea was equally bad as an inferior urban population tap.

Hartford-Providence L-shaped bypass via Springfield Line is A-OK. If they choose their ROW wisely that's a winner and not very expensive, and it's got the potential speed to beat the unimprovable Shoreline while scoring a huge addition from the Greater Hartford ridership.

I just wish they'd stay more focused here with these bypass ideas. Cities, cities, cities, city centers. That's where people need to go. Curve-straighten and bypass between them if you must to build up that head of steam, but do not @#$% skip the city centers even if it takes a slow zone to get there. East Coast HSR doesn't do what it's supposed to without, and there aren't nearly enough people skipping nearly enough cities to make the kookier bypasses hold their own on utilization. The megalopolis grew organically where it is...and the railroad was built to serve it. Unlike every other place in the country where the railroads were built then led the population migration by the nose. The population pre-dating the railroad and the railroad having to accomodate the pre-existing density is the reason why the NEC is "special" and geometry-compromised like it is. You can't fix enough of it without omitting too much population, and the feds seem to be talking out of both sides of their mouths saying you have to do business with the cities...then showing maps that skip the cities. Focus!
 
I think that you once mentioned that the older Viewliner cars would be rehabbed & converted over to business / quiet / coach / café cars.

I'm anxious to see what they'll look like inside & out when they're done! That is, if Amtrak still plans to do that. It would be nice to have taller new looking passenger cars for a change. :cool:

Nope. Not happening. Viewliner I cars will not be converted from sleepers to something else.
 
Nope. Not happening. Viewliner I cars will not be converted from sleepers to something else.

There's an out-of-service Viewliner prototype car and a Viewliner I configured as an Amtrak executive office car in the non-revenue fleet that are both being test-bedded for possible coach configurations on a future purchase and *may* get trialed for a bit in revenue service. I also don't know how many accident-damaged Viewliners are in long-term storage and may be repaired for new service...probably not more than a couple, but those would also be candidates for new configuration testing. But right now they're just doodling around with the prototypes at the Wilmington, DE shops and spec-testing them in-house. If they ever leave the yard it'll probably only be a short trial. The V1's are now 20 years old and due for their midlife overhaul in the next 5 years, so they need the prototypes back at the shop soon enough to start evaluating updated sleeper configurations. The rehab program will be the ideal opportunity to mass-update the interior livery of the sleepers, so they'll obviously want to spec those refreshes out in the prototype cars before the rehab program starts.

The snap-in interiors make it easy for them to rig up and screw around with different configurations at their leisure, so those two prototype cars will get a lot of internal usage next few years as they plot out their next fleet rehabs and new purchases.
 
Ah, true. I should have been clearer. The bulk of the in-service Viewliner I fleet will not be converted.
 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...m-every-other-train-traveling-the-same-route/

Fun with Maps!

Some dude created a map of the speeds of every single northbound Northeast Regional train (including the Norfolks, Newport Newses, and Lynchburgers) traveling through there on Tuesday 5/12 (apparently this is publicly downloadable data???...cool!). And then overlays the map with the speed readouts of this train and where the speed limit got exceeded.

Larry was a little bit Leadfoot south of Baltimore compared to the day's spread, but never exceeded the speed limit by more than a couple MPH and never led the pack except for maybe 4 or 5 places where it was the fastest train by no more than 1-4 MPH. Baltimore to Philly the engineer was pretty middle-of-the-pack. So this engineer was completely obedient of the signals EVERYWHERE except here.


Engineer was 2 MPH under the speed limit through North Philly station (Regionals only stop there a handful of times a day; this train was a skip). And then the next readout at K Street, 2500 ft. west of the curve, was 93 MPH in a 70 MPH zone. Then had accelerated to 106 MPH at Frankford Ave. Which...damn...is one insane rate of acceleration.

So if the acceleration was at a constant rate of +13 MPH per 2500 ft., then things started going horribly wrong in a span of 1.3 miles at most. Or roughly D Street when it was passing a very small freight yard with boxcars in it on Google Maps.


Based on what the RR.net thread is saying about the signal layout and the people on that thread crunching the maths...it supports the theory that all the acceleration over the speed limit happened between signals. By the skin of its teeth given what's known about the max acceleration of a Sprinter carrying that number of cars. So...assumption wrong by the Signal Dept. on the maximum stopping power of the cab signals in the layout around that curve. Despite fact that the signals themselves and as laid out worked exactly as intended.

The emergency alarm would've sounded at at the Shore Interlocking crossovers 1/3 mile before the curve, where Atlantic City Line trains diverge. And there would've been a 1..2..3 wait (I don't know what that corresponds to in actual seconds) for an engineer response before the emergency brakes auto-applied. Then the emergency brakes were only able to shave 4 MPH off the top speed before it jumped the tracks. If the engineer made no effort at the alarm sound to stop accelerating it may have even topped 106 MPH before the acceleration cut and emergency brakes came on. Meaning...quite a bit more than -4 MPH of slowdown happened from (106 + X) MPH to reach 102 MPH at the moment it derailed. NTSB may have to revise up the max speed in the gap between the black box recorder's data points to account for any additional acceleration beyond 106.


Point of no return was probably right before the train passed under the El for the Market-Frankford subway line 2 blocks north of Tioga station. Whether it was immediately there or a block or two before, the engineer would've been able to see the El out the window at the moment the train hit terminal velocity where no amount of braking would've saved it.
 
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Nope. Not happening. Viewliner I cars will not be converted from sleepers to something else.


Well, since they are making new Viewliner sleepers, dining and baggage cars, I don't know why they can't or won't start replacing those old Amfleet cars with new Viewliner coaches. :confused:
 
Well, since they are making new Viewliner sleepers, dining and baggage cars, I don't know why they can't or won't start replacing those old Amfleet cars with new Viewliner coaches. :confused:

Because they have to be funded. Jeez. They're processing deliveries for 130 Viewliners and 70 Sprinters right this bloody second, 130 bi-level cars starting this year's end, and 32 diesel locomotives that start arriving next year.

Then there's the option orders for +270 more bi-levels on that contract running through 2018, a +75 option on the diesels, and a second +150 option on the diesels.


Where in the hell are they supposed to find all the bodies to test this stuff with such a furious pace of delivery, or find the place to store everything while every single piece of existing equipment is 1) in-service during testing, and 2) retained in storage for 1-2 years after to make sure there's no problems with the new equipment. See how much trouble the T is having making all its commuter rail cars fit while simultaneously taking new coach and new locomotive deliveries? This is the same deal. There's almost no room in any of the East Coast yards to test the Viewbags and Sprinters while storing the Heritage bags, AEM-7's, and HHP-8's all in the same place.


And you're getting impatient because they didn't order 700 more cars on top of all this??? Equipment procurements do not work that way. NEC has its hands full juggling the Viewliners and Sprinters. The yards are full. Overfull because Sunnyside in New York, the busiest passenger railyard in the world, is having the shit ripped out of it for a major construction project that's taken some storage space temporarily out-of-service.. That means to get as much procurement activity as possible they tap the Midwest and California: bi-levels and diesels cram into the Chicago and Los Angeles yards for testing. And then when all the retirees get purged off the property they fill up the yard at Beech Grove, IN shops. And then that yard has to get cleaned out of scrap before they have the space to start the next flurry of orders fresh. Which means, like, 2019 at the earliest if every option order gets drained to the max on all these ongoing purchases.

There is absolutely no other way to make it work. And when the Amfleet replacement procurement does come up...it's going to be spread way out in batches over 5-8 years because 700 coaches is a hell of a lot more than 130 Viewliners and 70 locomotives to juggle in limited space while maintaining the existing fleet in working order.

If that does not suit your impatience to live in a world with no Amfleets...don't ride Amtrak for the next 8 years. Because they couldn't take delivery at that torrid a pace even if they had the money to, so the last Amfleet won't be taken out of revenue service until the 2020's. A couple years into the 2020's.
 
Because they have to be funded. Jeez. They're processing deliveries for 130 Viewliners and 70 Sprinters right this bloody second, 130 bi-level cars starting this year's end, and 32 diesel locomotives that start arriving next year.

Then there's the option orders for +270 more bi-levels on that contract running through 2018, a +75 option on the diesels, and a second +150 option on the diesels.


Where in the hell are they supposed to find all the bodies to test this stuff with such a furious pace of delivery, or find the place to store everything while every single piece of existing equipment is 1) in-service during testing, and 2) retained in storage for 1-2 years after to make sure there's no problems with the new equipment. See how much trouble the T is having making all its commuter rail cars fit while simultaneously taking new coach and new locomotive deliveries? This is the same deal. There's almost no room in any of the East Coast yards to test the Viewbags and Sprinters while storing the Heritage bags, AEM-7's, and HHP-8's all in the same place.


And you're getting impatient because they didn't order 700 more cars on top of all this??? Equipment procurements do not work that way. NEC has its hands full juggling the Viewliners and Sprinters. The yards are full. Overfull because Sunnyside in New York, the busiest passenger railyard in the world, is having the shit ripped out of it for a major construction project that's taken some storage space temporarily out-of-service.. That means to get as much procurement activity as possible they tap the Midwest and California: bi-levels and diesels cram into the Chicago and Los Angeles yards for testing. And then when all the retirees get purged off the property they fill up the yard at Beech Grove, IN shops. And then that yard has to get cleaned out of scrap before they have the space to start the next flurry of orders fresh. Which means, like, 2019 at the earliest if every option order gets drained to the max on all these ongoing purchases.

There is absolutely no other way to make it work. And when the Amfleet replacement procurement does come up...it's going to be spread way out in batches over 5-8 years because 700 coaches is a hell of a lot more than 130 Viewliners and 70 locomotives to juggle in limited space while maintaining the existing fleet in working order.

If that does not suit your impatience to live in a world with no Amfleets...don't ride Amtrak for the next 8 years. Because they couldn't take delivery at that torrid a pace even if they had the money to, so the last Amfleet won't be taken out of revenue service until the 2020's. A couple years into the 2020's.


That's sad! The 202's?! Those cars will be 50 + years old by them. Really. Well, guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion, it seems.
 
I was thinking this. It's not curve-free, but if it can be bootstrapped with PennDOT healing the I-95 gash separating Frankford from Bridesburg with a cut it has some additional quality-of-life and economic value.

14b4hz.jpg


1. Run the NEC onto the first few feet of the Atlantic City Line. Flying junction to eliminate all traffic conflicts with NJ Transit and freights (because that's a problem at existing Frankford Jct. too).
2. Bank a superelevated curve across the river and over land freed up by that WTF? highway exit that does a complete 180 to Aramingo Ave. Property takings of Mattress World (oh, darn!), 2 warehouses, and a self-storage unit + tow lot shivved underneath the 95 viaduct.
3. Sink 95 into a cut. Run tracks alongside. Relocate SEPTA Bridesburg station into the cut. Take a sliver of the Dow Chemical plant's rear lot to create room. Daylight the street grid. Abandon the old alignment and do something nice with it.


Still features S-curves, but they're gentle and if you did the superelevation you might be able to maintain continuous 90 MPH through here, with at worst a 70-75 MPH restriction at the junction.
 
That's sad! The 202's?! Those cars will be 50 + years old by them. Really. Well, guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion, it seems.

No, that's not sad. That's basic logistics. It is pure fantasy that Amtrak can swallow 700 new cars NOWNOWNOWNOWNOW in one operating region. You don't have to like that, but the NEC can't function if Amtrak is drowning in equipment to test that it has no room or personnel to swallow all at once.

Amtrak IS swallowing anywhere from 104 to 329 locomotives, and anywhere from 260 to 530 new passenger cars between right this second and 2018 across 3 operating regions. The most it has ever done. Which will help every operating region grow (including every single corridor route that's near break-even or turning an outright profit). And it will free up more Amfleets...which have to get borrowed by Chicago hub and California because of their major equipment shortages...to return east and feed the insatiable appetite and huge profits of the NE Regionals. While in turn making those trains less crowded because they can carry extra cars, which directly addresses your primary complaint with the confines on those trains.


Sorry if this does not satisfy you, but Amtrak is a business and this grows the business's revenue handsomely while allowing them to pay for things like that follow-on Viewliner coach order you so badly want. And makes the case to Congress to give them more funding because more equipment = more profits on the profitable routes. Everything is not terrible with the world because they haven't...yesterday...catered to your one specific beef.
 
No, that's not sad. That's basic logistics. It is pure fantasy that Amtrak can swallow 700 new cars NOWNOWNOWNOWNOW in one operating region. You don't have to like that, but the NEC can't function if Amtrak is drowning in equipment to test that it has no room or personnel to swallow all at once.

Amtrak IS swallowing anywhere from 104 to 329 locomotives, and anywhere from 260 to 530 new passenger cars between right this second and 2018 across 3 operating regions. The most it has ever done. Which will help every operating region grow (including every single corridor route that's near break-even or turning an outright profit). And it will free up more Amfleets...which have to get borrowed by Chicago hub and California because of their major equipment shortages...to return east and feed the insatiable appetite and huge profits of the NE Regionals. While in turn making those trains less crowded because they can carry extra cars, which directly addresses your primary complaint with the confines on those trains.


Sorry if this does not satisfy you, but Amtrak is a business and this grows the business's revenue handsomely while allowing them to pay for things like that follow-on Viewliner coach order you so badly want. And makes the case to Congress to give them more funding because more equipment = more profits on the profitable routes. Everything is not terrible with the world because they haven't...yesterday...catered to your one specific beef.


Hah! Like I said, you're entitled to your own opinion. It's all good. :rolleyes:
 
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Not to mention, even if it could handle ordering hundreds of Amfleet coach replacements, where is the funding?

The bilevel coaches and Charger locomotives are basically a state-led effort (CA, IL, MI, MO, potentially WI), with federal/state funding but not really Amtrak.
 
And BTW, Amtrak has suffered yet another mishap when a diesel loco caught fire in yet another train snafu!

No, the train didn't derail or crash, and no one was injured at all, but it DID happen.

Everyone is ok. :cool:

As for the derailment that occurred on Tuesday night, the driver of the train is about to be interviewed with the NTSB. His cell phone was confiscated in order to find out if he was using it at all just before the crash.

And info has surfaced that the southbound track had or has PTO, but the northbound track doesn't have it at all. :eek:
 
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I was thinking this. It's not curve-free, but if it can be bootstrapped with PennDOT healing the I-95 gash separating Frankford from Bridesburg with a cut it has some additional quality-of-life and economic value.
Love it.

My "new HSR" alignment would be a tunnel under Erie Ave starting all the way back before/near/after the St Christopher's Hospital, permitting a SEPTA/NJT station & transfer to the Market-Frankford Line Erie@Kensington and rejoining the NEC at Church St.

This would be important if the HSR Market East station's northern/eastern approach is parallel to Broad St or the old Erie RR, and would be irrelevant if the northern/eastern approach were actually coming in via I-95 or out under that other dead end lead (Sepviva St) into the Junction.
 
Not to mention, even if it could handle ordering hundreds of Amfleet coach replacements, where is the funding?

The bilevel coaches and Charger locomotives are basically a state-led effort (CA, IL, MI, MO, potentially WI), with federal/state funding but not really Amtrak.

Amtrak was shrewd with those contracts. The +150 national options on the locomotives are at the back-back-back end of the order, meaning the factory will be hot pumping them out by decision time on the options and the Congresscritters from the states on this order have actively-churning district pork to protect timed pretty nicely with the 2016 election. 3 of the states in this state-sponsored compact--Michigan, Illinois, and Missouri--beneficiaries of the GOP wave who have to weather an unfavorable election map. Forget about who gives a speech on C-SPAN about starving the beast or privatizing Amtrak...when the sausage-making gets hashed out in a closed-doors appropriations meeting, are they really gonna shut these factories down?

Hell no. They will near-silently pick up the options in a Friday afternoon news dump. And Amtrak booby-trapped it that way.


As is, the bi-level order was packed up with so much TIGER grant offsets that California is already tentatively set to drain its complete and total options. It just has to wait to see how the cars perform in testing before making it official. There's some tricky financing gymnastics at work driving that: Caltrans owns the existing California Cars (i.e. the first-generation Superliner corridor bi-levels), will own their fleet of this upcoming third-generation...but it doesn't own the second-gen Surfliner bi-levels. Amtrak does, and so the Caltrans lease terms are a lot less favorable than outright ownership. They amortize their costs by picking up the complete/total option orders, trading in the Surfliners, and having new-new cars with longer projected lifespan than the 14-year-old Surfliners. And so running up the score on the new units ends up saving themselves money over keeping all old + padding with new.

Upshot of that is Amtrak's going to have 60 more good-condition corridor cars transferring into the national pool all because of Cali's fun with budgeting loopholes. Which in turn would flush out the Midwest if Illinois + Michigan + Missouri do not pick up their options. Currently the Midwest base order of the new cars is barely enough to 1:1 swap out the shitty Horizon single-levels and alleviate the acute Chicago Hub car shortage...but not give much leeway at all for expansion. This transfer would cover the unreliability of the political winds in those states, and keep Amtrak from having to plug equipment gaps on the corridor routes with the national pool of LD-configured Superliners.


And then...Cali is--haltingly--moving forward with plans for the Coast Daylight and Coachella routes (well, sorta...they've been saying that for 15 years now with the Daylight). So the Surfliners may boomerang back to Caltrans all the same if they can float eventual purchase of those cars on projected new route revenues. http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/tpp/offices/oasp/ITSP_Intercity_Rail_Routes.pdf.



One thing I'll give Joe Boardman tons of credit on: he plays the "all politics is local" game exceptionally well. The reorganization of the business divisions into "corridor" vs. "LD" segments on the profit-and-loss statement shows profit and break-even on the right number of state-sponsored routes to neutralize some critics. While the isolation of LD sunk costs makes the Congresscritters fight themselves to a draw on whose pet routes get saved...meaning uneasy truce thus far has ruled over any cuts. They've done a great job playing the states on these equipment contracts, as the Cali financing games prove. These are standardized cars the states can't 'go rouge' over-customizing because they get a better rate rigidly adhering to Amtrak's specs and lower maintenance rates at zero deviation from spec. But the financing and "Job Creatorz!" games also mean 1) the options get drained by default on political expediency, 2) the national equipment pool gets a windfall of badly-needed bodies, 3) they can dispose of some really shit equipment instead of having to hang onto it forever as reserves (e.g. awful Horizon coaches, the oldest/smelliest non- GE Genesis diesels, most of the gutted-out ex-F40 locomotive "cabbage" cars), 4) they don't get shorted on cycled replacements (full overturn of the Genesis diesels). And while Boardman's got to prove his bona fides on this NEC crisis, Gateway, and lack of state-of-repair funding movement...at least some of the Congressional opposition has been halted in place by the fact that so many Congresscritters and the donors/lobbyists who stuff money in their pockets rely on the Regionals and Acela to travel between fundraising events where the money gets stuffed in pockets.
 
Not to be really nit-picky and argumentative, but isn't the Surfliner fleet (as opposed to the California Cars) partially owned by Amtrak and partially owned by Caltrans?

As far as the Midwest bilevels, there have been whispers that WI will move forward with re-equipping the Hiawatha trainsets with bilevels, which I imagine would require exercising some of the options. And MN/WI are currently examining an additional train CHI-MKE-MSP, which could mean additional bilevels as well. Now, whether the WI legislature will go along with funding those purchases...
 

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