Acela & Amtrak NEC (HSR BOS-NYP-WAS and branches only)

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There's something deliciously ironic about a thread supposedly about "Amtrak's $117 Billion Plan For High Speed Travel" now on the topic of the above image. Yes, it's mainly cosmetic, but still, much like Amtrak, it's a train wreck.

Thankfully nobody was killed. Looks like the engineer got lucky there that the tree entered on side he wasn't sitting.
 
There's something deliciously ironic about a thread supposedly about "Amtrak's $117 Billion Plan For High Speed Travel" now on the topic of the above image. Yes, it's mainly cosmetic, but still, much like Amtrak, it's a train wreck.

Thankfully nobody was killed. Looks like the engineer got lucky there that the tree entered on side he wasn't sitting.

No, it's got nothing to do with Amtrak. Live amongst mountains, live with the hazards of mountains. The Euro supertrains deal with many more rockslide-related incidents than this by virtue of running denser schedules around much taller and vastly more treacherous mountains. We don't hear about those incidents because there's no "www. railroad. fr" providing scintillating live discussion and railfan photos of it in our first-spoken language, but the Alps have smooshed plenty of trains in its day. Including some of the best Jetsons Shit equipment the world has to offer. Hell, the Japanese have had some harrowing incidents of earthquakes on their HSR lines, and that's got absolute zilch to do with the quality of their rail system. It doesn't stop people from going where they need to go any more than citizens of Vermont who'd never choose anywhere else to live but the Green Mountains go about their lives.
 
Indeed, it is not Amtrak's fault nor am I blaming them.

However, it remains true that the discussion thread about Amtrak's grand plans for HSR currently ends in a 'train wreck' quite literally...
 
Well, we don't have a catch-all AMTK thread anymore thanks to 'Pits fecal-bombing the last attempt at one, so the HSR thread has been awkwardly subbing as an Amtrak generic. The troll-pwn3d remains of the old one are possibly parted out on one of the 'useless posts' dumping grounds on the General subforum. Probably should change the title on this thread to a generic and start fresh with an HSR-specific one so present/near-future and ponderous/deep-future get their space. There's enough to talk about with each that they don't need to crowd each other's scope.
 
Here's what it looked like after they got it upright. It passed through MA yesterday yesterday via NECR to Palmer and CSX to Albany. . .

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Now, from the RR.net thread on the accident the longtime RR employees said not to get caught up too much in looks. Stuff way more 'totaled' than this has made it all the way back like nothing ever happened. The frame wasn't compromised at all except for the engineer's cabin which obviously took a large tree from all the branches sticking out of that dented corner. Most of what you see on that seemingly destroyed side is superficial damage to the skin. Because 102 leaked zero fuel or oil the engine compartment wasn't compromised at all despite the nasty fall and couple days suspended at a 100-degree angle; all the mechanical components should be fine. They gave it par odds of being repairable.

GE Genesis frames can be hard to repair because they're monocoque (single-piece) design, so that would be the only reason why #102 wouldn't run again. If by "#102" you mean the frame with #102 painted on the side. Amtrak has many stored P42's at its main shop in Beech Grove, IN...some of them sound frames that are missing engines due to fire, others like this, others that are completely totaled and just there to strip for scrap. So if 102's frame is too far gone, it'll almost certainly instead become an engine donor that gets a different stored locomotive put back into service as a like-new unit. Either way they're not going to lose one off the active roster (though I'd expect it to take a year or two before they've had enough shop time to do a special heavy-repair project like that).

That's why they made every painstaking effort to rescue it instead of blowtorching it onsite. Cut it up onsite and they end up cutting up the pristine-condition engine and throw away any shot at returning "a" locomotive to service by matching up parts, whether as #102 or under a different number. Here they're almost certainly not going to need to write off a couple million dollars worth of lost equipment.


WOW!

Looks damaged beyond repair!

But miracles have happened, so maybe, it can be nursed back to good health. :cool:
 
Like I said, looks can be deceiving. Nothing crumpled except for that half of the engineer's cab that absorbed the tree, and engine room was un-breached. They're designed to absorb high-speed impacts and crumple at grade crossing strikes and other such gruesome scenes, but the only thing this engine impacted at high speed was the little 1 ft. tall rock that was sitting on the tracks from the rockslide. The locomotive lost nearly all of its momentum derailing and skidding on the trackbed ballast (like they're designed to), and when it went over the ledge it was cushioned by enough vegetation for all 134 tons of it to come to complete rest suspended midair. Which means it had to be almost completely stopped at the ledge and then 'tipped' over, instead of being carried clear overboard by its residual momentum. While the engineer inside may feel otherwise, in pure physics that was a very 'gentle' crash by the locomotive's design standards. And the damage pattern reflects the fact that hardly any crash energy needed to be dispersed through the frame. The ripped-off skin is all the superficial work of the trees that scraped it to a dead stop on the way down. A nasty case of friction burn for sure, but no broken bones outside that collapsed cabin window.

So if the exposed steel of the carbody frame wasn't compromised they can clean it up, have new skin sections pressed, and repair the cab so it's good as new. Then just put new bogies on it, since the derailment + skid on the ballast ruined those consumables. The only degree of difficulty is fabricating the skin sections, because on a Genesis they're all seamless instead of bolted together. But Amtrak's repaired many Genesis smash-ups before so there probably isn't any great challenge here for Beech Grove shops.


The worst-case scenario is that it just proves a little too expensive to repair the frame, they decide to pull another dead P42 with pristine frame out of storage, and they transplant 102's engine + electrical + all other systems guts into that other unit and send it back into active service. And that decision has less to do with feasibility than expense: if they're short engines for some of their other engine-less stored P42 frames, it's better use of internal resources to transplant 102's guts into a frame they don't have to repair rather than repair 102 in isolation. 102's de-engined frame would just trade places in the Beech Grove boneyard with the 'skin donor' unit.

Either way it's the same result: something goes back into service powered by the same engine they rescued from the bottom of the embankment last week. It may be painted #102 or painted some other number on the roster, but it'll be majority- 102's undamaged parts powering it.
 
But if the repair work is going to cost as much, or more than getting a new loco, then that is just good money after bad.

Like it would've been had I decided to have my old car repaired. Too many things were broken on it that would've cost me a fortune to fix, so I just used the dough for the down payment on a NEW car. I'm so glad that I did, because I l just LOVE the new car so much! I've gotten spoiled with it.
 
But if the repair work is going to cost as much, or more than getting a new loco, then that is just good money after bad.

Like it would've been had I decided to have my old car repaired. Too many things were broken on it that would've cost me a fortune to fix, so I just used the dough for the down payment on a NEW car. I'm so glad that I did, because I l just LOVE the new car so much! I've gotten spoiled with it.

We don't know how much it'll cost. NTSB hasn't even released the cars back to them yet.

But because new orders are tied to a procurement schedule, the cost/benefit calculation works out more like this:

-- Scramble with a fleet shortage for several years. Requiring by sheer lack of options running other units into the ground and passing up more regular shop time for preventative maint and treatment of small aches and pains. Which will make fleetwide maintenance more costly overall. As well as causing revenue loss from more frequently canceled trains as result of the fleet shortages that come from trying to save a few bucks before next procurement by not repairing wrecks.

-- Or...spend the premium up-front and get no long-term net loss to fleet numbers. The national options on the Siemens Charger locomotive procurement are a good 3 years away from being executed, and probably 5 years from being on the property if they're executed. So the national P42 fleet isn't going to get any relief. It's the West Coast F59PHI's that are getting whacked with the state-sponsored options, and those things are too tall to run on a number of East Coast routes so they're not a hold-over-and-reassign option until the Genesis replacements are ready. Neither are the Midwest/West-assigned Amfleet and Horizon coaches going to be eligible for reassignment back East for a few more years because of the new FUBAR with the Nippon-Sharyo bi-levels failing their prototype crash tests and pushing that order at least another 2 years late. And of course greenlighting today a next-gen single-level fleet order won't get a single new East Coast car on the property before 2020 or '21 because no procurement goes from appropriation to specs engineering to RFP to design to build to testing/acceptance in less than 5 years.


So they do this because when all is said and done the total amortized cost ends up less paying up-front for an immediate repair rather than waiting for the next procurement cycle to flush its way through. Amtrak's the largest passenger fleet on the continent; they're well aware of the economic pros and cons of rebuild vs. scrap. When they choose rebuild, it's because they crunched the numbers and rebuild came out ahead on total aggregate cost.

This Vermonter accident was 'benign' enough (if there is such a thing) in the grand scheme that they were able to make that value judgment sooner than they usually do post-accident.
 
We don't know how much it'll cost. NTSB hasn't even released the cars back to them yet.

But because new orders are tied to a procurement schedule, the cost/benefit calculation works out more like this:

-- Scramble with a fleet shortage for several years. Requiring by sheer lack of options running other units into the ground and passing up more regular shop time for preventative maint and treatment of small aches and pains. Which will make fleetwide maintenance more costly overall. As well as causing revenue loss from more frequently canceled trains as result of the fleet shortages that come from trying to save a few bucks before next procurement by not repairing wrecks.

-- Or...spend the premium up-front and get no long-term net loss to fleet numbers. The national options on the Siemens Charger locomotive procurement are a good 3 years away from being executed, and probably 5 years from being on the property if they're executed. So the national P42 fleet isn't going to get any relief. It's the West Coast F59PHI's that are getting whacked with the state-sponsored options, and those things are too tall to run on a number of East Coast routes so they're not a hold-over-and-reassign option until the Genesis replacements are ready. Neither are the Midwest/West-assigned Amfleet and Horizon coaches going to be eligible for reassignment back East for a few more years because of the new FUBAR with the Nippon-Sharyo bi-levels failing their prototype crash tests and pushing that order at least another 2 years late. And of course greenlighting today a next-gen single-level fleet order won't get a single new East Coast car on the property before 2020 or '21 because no procurement goes from appropriation to specs engineering to RFP to design to build to testing/acceptance in less than 5 years.


So they do this because when all is said and done the total amortized cost ends up less paying up-front for an immediate repair rather than waiting for the next procurement cycle to flush its way through. Amtrak's the largest passenger fleet on the continent; they're well aware of the economic pros and cons of rebuild vs. scrap. When they choose rebuild, it's because they crunched the numbers and rebuild came out ahead on total aggregate cost.

This Vermonter accident was 'benign' enough (if there is such a thing) in the grand scheme that they were able to make that value judgment sooner than they usually do post-accident.


With THIS loco and the Sprinter that was involved in the May 12 derailment just north of Philly, that just adds to the many locos and cars damaged in accidents over the years.

I'm pretty certain that those machines are register and insured, so it is not a total loss. It is just so sad and unfortunate that things happen this way. A train accident is bad at anytime. Lives are lost and victims' families grieving.

And then comes the long and exasperating task of trying to figure out just who or what was the culprit that lead up to the accident. It has still not been determined as to the cause of the May 12 accident. The driver of train# 188 says that he does not remember because at that time, his mind is said to have gone blank.
 
Well, since the Sprinters are still being accepted and SEPTA will have a small order of them commencing after Amtrak is done they will have the option of ordering a replacement for #601 wrecked in Philly. Metro North, when it had its New Haven Line accident that wrecked a few then brand-new M8's, was able to replace them with some of its last option orders because the Kawasaki factory was still pumping them out.

Every equipment order is padded for attrition, and Amtrak having the largest fleet by far pads its orders by the largest degree. The P42's are 19 years old and their replacement order has been initiated, so they are getting to the point where the reserves are getting a little thin. How soon they can restock depends on how the first state-sponsored order of Siemens Chargers perform. Then there'd be 1 more option order by the states before Amtrak can exercise the national order for ~200 units to completely displace the existing diesel fleet. The only reason it'll take awhile is because the Charger is a new design...and as with any new rolling stock these days crammed full of computers, it takes longer than ever to debug them. Simply no way to speed up a procurement; they have to run their course.

If there's an emergency they do still have 13 operable P40DC's--the older Genesis generation--in storage that they can refurbish in a pinch if they got a small budget appropriation. The P40's can only work routes that require one locomotive (i.e. corridor, not LD), so they're a little bit more limited than the P42's in where they can be assigned. But it's very unlikely they'd need to resort to that. The diesel fleet isn't that thin on reserves except for the New York/Empire Corridor dual-modes and the West Coast corridor routes where they use don't use the Genesis at all and are scraping by on F59PHI's and Dash 8's.
 
So today I got a rear view window from Center City all the way to Trenton

Emerging from the Center City Tunnel


SEPTA Trenton Line Railfan window outbound Journey
by Corey Best, on Flickr


SEPTA Trenton Line Railfan window outbound Journey
by Corey Best, on Flickr

Leaving SEPTA 30th Street Station


SEPTA Trenton Line Railfan window outbound Journey
by Corey Best, on Flickr

Accelerating in the 30th Street yard


SEPTA Trenton Line Railfan window outbound Journey
by Corey Best, on Flickr

some SEPTA equipment parked in the yard


SEPTA Trenton Line Railfan window outbound Journey
by Corey Best, on Flickr

Yellow PRR Signals...which seem to be used only in Center City


SEPTA Trenton Line Railfan window outbound Journey
by Corey Best, on Flickr


SEPTA Trenton Line Railfan window outbound Journey
by Corey Best, on Flickr


SEPTA Trenton Line Railfan window outbound Journey
by Corey Best, on Flickr

Diesel unit reversing into the Yard from the Zoo Interlocks


SEPTA Trenton Line Railfan window outbound Journey
by Corey Best, on Flickr

Crossing the Schuylkill River


SEPTA Trenton Line Railfan window outbound Journey
by Corey Best, on Flickr

Its Straight and Fast in parts of North Philly


SEPTA Trenton Line Railfan window outbound Journey
by Corey Best, on Flickr

A slight curve to the right


SEPTA Trenton Line Railfan window outbound Journey
by Corey Best, on Flickr

Passing an inbound Atlantic City line train


SEPTA Trenton Line Railfan window outbound Journey
by Corey Best, on Flickr

Under the Market-Frankford EL


SEPTA Trenton Line Railfan window outbound Journey
by Corey Best, on Flickr


SEPTA Trenton Line Railfan window outbound Journey
by Corey Best, on Flickr

The infamous Curve where the derailment occurred earlier this yr..., the poles were anchored in concrete...but they didn't appear to be new..


SEPTA Trenton Line Railfan window outbound Journey
by Corey Best, on Flickr


SEPTA Trenton Line Railfan window outbound Journey
by Corey Best, on Flickr

Southbound Regional roars past near Bridesburg station


SEPTA Trenton Line Railfan window outbound Journey
by Corey Best, on Flickr

60 Speed limit near Bridesburg


SEPTA Trenton Line Railfan window outbound Journey
by Corey Best, on Flickr

Another straight away near Tacony station


SEPTA Trenton Line Railfan window outbound Journey
by Corey Best, on Flickr

Northbound Regional roars past at Torresdale station


SEPTA Trenton Line Railfan window outbound Journey
by Corey Best, on Flickr

Very Curvy in Northeastern Philly


SEPTA Trenton Line Railfan window outbound Journey
by Corey Best, on Flickr


SEPTA Trenton Line Railfan window outbound Journey
by Corey Best, on Flickr

Finally out of Philly , this station is Croydon


SEPTA Trenton Line Railfan window outbound Journey
by Corey Best, on Flickr


SEPTA Trenton Line Railfan window outbound Journey
by Corey Best, on Flickr

Another straight away along US 13


SEPTA Trenton Line Railfan window outbound Journey
by Corey Best, on Flickr

And a Curve before Bristol


SEPTA Trenton Line Railfan window outbound Journey
by Corey Best, on Flickr

And another Curve after Bristol


SEPTA Trenton Line Railfan window outbound Journey
by Corey Best, on Flickr

near Levvittown Station


SEPTA Trenton Line Railfan window outbound Journey
by Corey Best, on Flickr

Inbound Septa local passing outside Levvittown


SEPTA Trenton Line Railfan window outbound Journey
by Corey Best, on Flickr

Southbound Acela passing...


SEPTA Trenton Line Railfan window outbound Journey
by Corey Best, on Flickr


SEPTA Trenton Line Railfan window outbound Journey
by Corey Best, on Flickr

Trenton Cut...


Trenton Northeast Corridor Cut
by Corey Best, on Flickr


Trenton Northeast Corridor Cut
by Corey Best, on Flickr
 
I noticed they include South Station Expansion in phase 1. Is that project funded and imminent?
 
I noticed they include South Station Expansion in phase 1. Is that project funded and imminent?

No. The NEC Commission is still figuring out how to turn on Google Terrain view and see with their two eyes how many mountains and rock cliffs their nonsensical map doodles have to climb. The rest of their time is apparently spent with undiagnosed green color-blindness given the number of wetlands, country clubs, and residential neighborhoods plowed through. And they apparently have attention span of a gnat with all those bypasses of traditional city transit centers for 'trendy' routings to the convention center and airport terminals, while shotgun-marriaging some of the worst un-learned lessons of urban renewal by blowing up urban neighborhoods and trying way way too hard to de-industrialize functioning industrial areas instead of just focusing on making the trains run on-time.


There's maybe a half-dozen good ideas in those Appendix renderings. The other three-quarters of it are a dumpster fire of illogic. :(
 
No. The NEC Commission is still figuring out how to turn on Google Terrain view and see with their two eyes how many mountains and rock cliffs their nonsensical map doodles have to climb. The rest of their time is apparently spent with undiagnosed green color-blindness given the number of wetlands, country clubs, and residential neighborhoods plowed through. And they apparently have attention span of a gnat with all those bypasses of traditional city transit centers for 'trendy' routings to the convention center and airport terminals, while shotgun-marriaging some of the worst un-learned lessons of urban renewal by blowing up urban neighborhoods and trying way way too hard to de-industrialize functioning industrial areas instead of just focusing on making the trains run on-time.


There's maybe a half-dozen good ideas in those Appendix renderings. The other three-quarters of it are a dumpster fire of illogic. :(



I literally broke out laughing when I saw their "straightening" proposal for southeast CT. I'll take things that would never fly in a million years for $500 alex.

also, the massive tunnel through the woods in eastern CT is a funny idea, more practical than the LI tunnel at least.
 
the massive tunnel through the woods in eastern CT is a funny idea
We've discussed upthread (c. post 111) that Hartford-Providence need not be a tunnel but rather follow the original I-84 alignment (after I-84 took its current route (the former I-86), the alignment was re-designated I-384) and is already in state hands
Helpful reminder image:
i84e-plan.gif

The highway alignment, whose EIS was approved in 2003, also makes a sweet 4-lane toll road between I-395 and I-84, which would help pay for straight-and-level-grading and avoid the induced (highway) demand trap.
 

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