Acela & Amtrak NEC (HSR BOS-NYP-WAS and branches only)

F-Line I think you really get to the marrow of why NEC Future is so incoherent. It does not ask the proper fundamental questions up front and that is why we are debating so many crazy transit pitch ideas regarding the future of the NEC.

However, going back to the questions you pose as someone who clearly thinks a lot about this sort of stuff it would be interesting to hear about what your answers to them might be. Not exactly your detailed alignment ideas but what should be the purpose of the NEC going forward a long ways? If we were to make a significant investment in it what would that look like? What major things to we need to concede and what things to be really need to put our collective backs into trying to get done?

I'm asking because I struggle with these questions myself. Let's face it; as painful as the current NEC service is the point is we have a functional railway alignment that pretty much links all of the Northeast Corridor CBD's that is reasonably fast enough that someone can do business in NYC (originating from BOS or DC) for the day using the Acela. I don't ever foresee a future in which where trips BOS to DC will be viable vis-a-vis air travel and frankly that is not an objective worth achieving. If we look at the NEC as two distinct segments- NYP-BOS and NYP-DC- then those two segments could stand to be drastically improved but even as is they are technically workable in their current form.

So with all that in mind I often find myself asking, "is the NEC at full SGR really all we need considering all of the costs- not just monetary but the either-or decisions on routing that need to be made- associated with the alternatives." Is that a shortsighted perspective? Is our future in peril if we can't get from BOS to NYP in about 90 minutes or is slightly under 3 hours good enough? I lean towards the latter and wonder how much we should be killing ourselves to try to achieve the former.

I know that one of the basic things driving NEC Future is the premise that the NEC is at capacity so we need to add a complete two-track separate HSR alignment throughout the whole corridor unless we want constrained growth. I can see where this premise is coming from, especially on the Connecticut shoreline to NHV, it's obvious that that is where a lot of these crazy alignments come from. However, that approach might make sense in terms of making 100 year outlook infrastructure investments but is that a reasonable objective to try to achieve considering what we already have now? We aren't CAHSR; we already do have a functional rail alignment.

So what do you think we should be aiming for on the NEC and who- if anyone- is articulating that vision? We sure know the FRA isn't getting close in their attempt.
 
F-Line I think you really get to the marrow of why NEC Future is so incoherent. It does not ask the proper fundamental questions up front and that is why we are debating so many crazy transit pitch ideas regarding the future of the NEC.

However, going back to the questions you pose as someone who clearly thinks a lot about this sort of stuff it would be interesting to hear about what your answers to them might be. Not exactly your detailed alignment ideas but what should be the purpose of the NEC going forward a long ways? If we were to make a significant investment in it what would that look like? What major things to we need to concede and what things to be really need to put our collective backs into trying to get done?

I think the whole notion that we have to run screaming from the NEC and discard it for something radically new for new's sake end up faulty when you look at what's served. The current NEC hits major union stations in the CBD's of Washington, Baltimore, Wilmington, Philadelphia, Trenton, Newark, New York City, Stamford, Bridgeport, and New Haven. Those CBD's organized themselves 1-1/2 to 2 centuries ago around the NEC. Those CBD's went through each and every one of their boom-bust cycles over that immense span of time organized around the NEC. And unlike every other CBD on the continent that either lost its train service or built itself out independently from "Peak Train"...the NEC's influence on these CBD's never diminished nearly enough--not even during Peak Car--to loosen its grip. Those CBD's are huge demand gravity wells, and the NEC is the only thing that links all those gravity wells because it CREATED them in the first place and never took its hand entirely off the wheel steering them through 2 centuries of change.

So there is nothing "more perfect" you can dream up than the D.C. to NYC (and arguably D.C. to NHV) sequence of downtown stops. Swap out any one piece or drag anything off-center because reasons, and the sum ends up much worse off on collection of parts.

So first off is acknowledging what the NEC is not in the business of doing:

  • The NEC is not in the business of developing real estate. NEC FUTURE's attempts to goose up the area around Baltimore's convention center and Philly's waterfront by stretching/distorting the CBD and transit nodes around it are irrelevant and counterproductive. Ditto other real estate dev trojan horses like bypassing downtown Bridgeport for the waterfront.



  • The NEC is not in the business of developing new whole-cloth demand. The CBD gravity wells are so huge and so distinct we know already where the people are going and where they're hitting their transfers. The single-minded pursuit of real estate development to create new sources of demand out of thin air is a waste of time and energy for a question no one is asking.
The Philly Airport bypass, a relative cheapie that does have some very straightforward upside going for it, was also attacked in the Philly meeting by Philly officials for being a giant distraction because they thought NEC FUTURE was ludicrously overrating the new demand it would generate. Their response was "The whole city is organized around 30th St. Station. We've had a pretty good idea from Day 1 of the Airport what demand it's generating from where, and how wide a reach that demand goes before Newark and BWI proximity starts diluting it. You're tarting up an 'it couldn't hurt' infill footnote into a "It's a game-changer!!!" when real HSR vs. air mode share trends say it's going to matter even less going forward. What the hell are you basing this on???"


  • The NEC is not in the business of top-down management. It is such an intricately layered mix of local commuter vs. state-sponsored regional vs. trunkline regional vs. HSR vs. LD services that it's impossible to parse out the national vs. state vs. city interests; they're inseparable. The route leads the whole spectrum of stakeholders by the nose. Banalities of cat-herding and all, it only works as a ruling coalition...not a dictatorship. We see the shortcomings of treating it as personal property when Amtrak squeezes NJ Transit and MARC too hard down south, and Metro North squeezes Amtrak too hard on the New Haven Line. It has to be a governing coalition. Those same CBD gravity wells shape every single service on an unbroken continuum from hyper-local to national such that appointing a "Big Man in Charge" misses the point.
Turf warrage is death. NEC FUTURE is all about the FRA erecting walls to keep the states out of its sandbox, even when that comes at price of watering down the demand with CBD keep-away games. Shit...NEC FUTURE undercuts and contradicts Amtrak's own Infrastructure Improvements Master Plan document co-signed with all the states. "I...me...mine" apparently draws no distinction between the states and the National Passenger Railroad Corp. itself as far as marking territory is concerned.
I'm asking because I struggle with these questions myself. Let's face it; as painful as the current NEC service is the point is we have a functional railway alignment that pretty much links all of the Northeast Corridor CBD's that is reasonably fast enough that someone can do business in NYC (originating from BOS or DC) for the day using the Acela. I don't ever foresee a future in which where trips BOS to DC will be viable vis-a-vis air travel and frankly that is not an objective worth achieving. If we look at the NEC as two distinct segments- NYP-BOS and NYP-DC- then those two segments could stand to be drastically improved but even as is they are technically workable in their current form.
Exactly. And it's a bunk argument that "first-world HSR" would find a problem with any of that. It goes where the people need to go. That is the single most functional part of it. Nobody would throw that away. The deplorable state-of-repair needs to be dealt with, full due diligence needs to be applied on performance enhancements where they're reliably achievable.

But no one worldwide would chuck the alignment or the basic layer cake of services in the trash because they're geometrically less-than-perfect or don't set the land speed record. HSR lines get built or upgraded to serve demand. No country would ever thumb its nose at a single alignment that hits a CBD string of pearls like this and conclude "we better start forking and bypassing so we can set a land speed record, and move some real estate in the process". The ones that do bypass and augment...do so only after they built the bestest trunk they can on the highest-demand alignment.

To the Euros, who have a very fragmented continental rail system to string together...they look at the NEC and say, "Oh, America...you don't even know how good you have it on the NEC. If only you'd focus on the right things."

So with all that in mind I often find myself asking, "is the NEC at full SGR really all we need considering all of the costs- not just monetary but the either-or decisions on routing that need to be made- associated with the alternatives." Is that a shortsighted perspective? Is our future in peril if we can't get from BOS to NYP in about 90 minutes or is slightly under 3 hours good enough? I lean towards the latter and wonder how much we should be killing ourselves to try to achieve the former.
I think the NEC at full and total SGR + capacity enhancement within the existing footprint is probably 90% of the goal. This obsession with raw speed and perfect straightness is pointless when there's no more perfect alignment D.C. to New Haven for hitting all the demand wells. Honestly, there is probably no major realignment whatsoever south of NYC worth considering at all save for these:

  • The Gunpowder and Bush River bypasses along the CSX freight ROW. But as an SGR project that retires the two very expensive spans for a few miles of 4 passenger + 1-2 grade separated freight track 'super' ROW avoiding the river mouths.
  • *Maybe* the Philly Airport bypass. Not because of the Airport stop, but because sidestepping 10 SEPTA local stops and the junction with the Doylestown Line opens up lots of service increases for Regional Rail on 2 largely intra-city serving lines.
One an SGR project, one a commuter rail enhancement project. Otherwise simply tightening the bolts between CBD's accomplishes all goals. Including making the NEC convenience-competitive on a large scale with short-haul air travel. Convenience, not stopwatch. The first CBD that has to get bypassed in the name of raw speed is a setback for that convenience argument.


The ONLY places where you've got legitimate cases for a bypass are:

  • The Shoreline in SE Connecticut, where the ROW geometry is legitimately poor and unimprovable. You also do not have nearly the same CBD draws with Old Saybrook, New London, and Kingston now being the kinds of locales meriting stops. Those are not HSR markets; they're NE Regional intermediate stops. The murderer's row of HSR CBD stops ends at New Haven, doesn't begin again until the Providence-Boston pair, and leaves an intriguing hole in the chain in the form of Greater Hartford. There is legitimate fodder for studying a better route, and a better chain. And yes, Worcester is a consequential influence on proceedings from a starting point that asks the right questions.

  • Long Island crossing. Only because the New Haven Line is unexpandable and so singularly traffic-skewed to short-haul and express-haul commuter rail train spacing on all 4 tracks that capacity ceilings may be very real. You wouldn't bypass because Long Island offers a better string of CBD's to tap...you'd augment because you physically approach the outer limit of schedules that can serve every CBD on the chain and simply must start evaluating alternatives. This is where the Euros will nod approvingly and say "OK, you milked the mainline for all it's worth...now let's see how good you Americans are at mixing-and-matching to get around a capacity cap." Not that LIRR is a congestion management piece of cake itself.
This probably is not an alt spine you'd bake in up-front, because a New Haven Line at 100% SGR isn't going to be at-capacity and those CBD's outslug raw speed as a value proposition. But it's first reach when the capacity does truly become a noose. NEC FUTURE makes no attempt to pitch it that way; they pretty nakedly see Long Island as a real estate development program above all else.
I know that one of the basic things driving NEC Future is the premise that the NEC is at capacity so we need to add a complete two-track separate HSR alignment throughout the whole corridor unless we want constrained growth. I can see where this premise is coming from, especially on the Connecticut shoreline to NHV, it's obvious that that is where a lot of these crazy alignments come from. However, that approach might make sense in terms of making 100 year outlook infrastructure investments but is that a reasonable objective to try to achieve considering what we already have now? We aren't CAHSR; we already do have a functional rail alignment.
Well, and NEC FUTURE's capacity assumptions are utter bullshit to begin with. The Providence Line gets 4 tracks, but the MBTA gets no service increases and potential service cuts??? How does one explain that when the 4-track New Haven Line at today's godawful SGR handles way more. Arbitrary turf-warrage. Every commuter rail agency gets robbed so the FRA can play "I...me...mine." Except Metro North, because the ownership shoe is on the other foot.

It's worthless. We know there are bottlenecks and have a decent itemization of where they are. But we don't know what the 'true' capacity limit is amid all this turf war noise. We don't know it because we're only hearing quotes from single-issue parties...not the whole spectrum of the NEC coalition. We don't have a basis for evaluating it yet. Hence, ALL of the crazy alignments supposedly justified by "capacity constraints" are built on a foundation of bullshit until somebody starts asking the right questions.

Nobody's going to do that as long as NEC FUTURE is allowed to operate like a rogue player.

So what do you think we should be aiming for on the NEC and who- if anyone- is articulating that vision? We sure know the FRA isn't getting close in their attempt.
Well...Step #1 I think is going to involve sending NEC FUTURE home so battered and bruised they have no choice but to disband and start over. The answers won't come as long as they are around. This is Phase I: Tragedy and Setback. They have to be sacrificed for the good of everyone. Everyone on the NEC spectrum needs to lick their wounds and come to grips with how wrong their approach was. And then hopefully out of that embarrassment a coalition starts to get forged that asks the fucking right questions and realizes that they're only going to be able to come up with the answers acting as an inseparable coalition of services on a common corridor. Then there's a basis for revisiting whatever useful nuggets NEC FUTURE left behind and and getting a plan together.


Independent of that, we just need to step up by several orders of magnitude the bread-and-butter SGR funding. Start picking off that Infrastructure Improvements Master Plan bucket list major line items at a time, because that's where 80% of the the "first-world" service & reliability gains are going to come from that distinguish the NEC as convenient and demand-serving HSR rather than just laboratory-fast HSR. You don't have to fret so much about this country getting with the 'vision' thing if the very cut-and-dried SGR items are such self-starters. The coalition-building becomes very easy when every bridge replacement and electrical system upgrade makes the existing Acela--in all its fat, bloated, international laughingstock cromulence--a much more pinpoint-accurate schedule with each passing year. This isn't "nuke the FRA / replace them with their superior German counterparts" -level improbable for the ugly Americans to do. SGR delivers the means...and asks the right questions...on a silver platter. The coalition-building stuff and "what do you want this thing to be?" questions get much easier, more self-evident, and more self-sustaining in its wake.

This is why NEC FUTURE has to die as a necessary first step. It is pre-empting beneficial progress on SGR by waging a turf war and obfuscating what all the key questions are.
 
But the proposed Baltimore & Philly bypasses would come with stations in the Heart of the CBD...not on the outskirts.. Wilmington is a nasty slow S-curve , its also one of the smallest NEC cities so it can be bypassed...It should only be serviced by Regional like Trenton , New Rochelle , Bridgeport , New London. I agree the pork should be thrown out but not building new routes is a disservice to the people in this part of the US... The plan should be redone without the pork and including all the various state Intercity master plans along with new HSR lines... And the Europeans laugh at the US all the time when it comes to rail...
 
But the proposed Baltimore & Philly bypasses would come with stations in the Heart of the CBD...not on the outskirts.. Wilmington is a nasty slow S-curve , its also one of the smallest NEC cities so it can be bypassed...It should only be serviced by Regional like Trenton , New Rochelle , Bridgeport , New London. I agree the pork should be thrown out but not building new routes is a disservice to the people in this part of the US... The plan should be redone without the pork and including all the various state Intercity master plans along with new HSR lines... And the Europeans laugh at the US all the time when it comes to rail...

No, they aren't the "heart" of the CBD. The "hearts" of the Philly and Baltimore CBD's as determined by where the people actually go and where the cities themselves self-orient are 30th St. Station and Baltimore Penn. That eyeballing a 2D map can lead someone to conclude "close enough" doesn't matter for shit when that's not how the cities themselves and the users of Amtrak use those CBD's. Remember how pissy the locals here got during the Boston 2024 saga about being mansplained from on-high about how "Midtown" over Widett Circle was going to alter Boston's whole spatial orientation? Just the being told part; a built-up Widett Circle wouldn't have functionally altered any centers of gravity. Well, take those nerves frayed by B24's tone-deafness and throw in an "Oh, by the way...we have to move South Station a mile south down I-93 to maximize the benefits to our Master Developer. But you'll adjust...with your own money." How well would that go over? About as well as some self-annointed Voice of God telling every resident, business, and local politician in Philly and Baltimore that "you'll adjust" to Market East and Camden Yards becoming their new union stations.

NEC FUTURE is attempting to self-justify by making a national funding appeal to the tens of millions of voters who don't have skin in the game on things like "Philly sets its clock to public transit to/from 30th Street." It's their means of overruling local objections and imposing their will from the outside when they can get all the folks who don't regularly live/work/commute through the Philly and Baltimore CBD's to say "your objections are as quaint as they are baseless; get over yourselves and adjust for the good of the Corridor." Same deal with saying the capital of Delaware and 11th busiest Amtrak stop in the country is "too small" and should be sacrificed for the sake of a more-perfect curve straightening.


I'm sorry...it matters really a lot what answers Philadelphia and Baltimore themselves give as to what the self-defined "hearts" of their CBD's are. When all manner of Philly voices say it would make a royal mess out of the spatial orientation of downtown transit to demote 30th Street to #2 station in favor of making Market East the #1 terminal to end all terminals...that matters. When Baltimore has to wholesale-reorient itself to Camden Yards and the convention center as its "new" transit center dragged a full mile off-course from where the nodes currently tie up...that matters. Wholesale-eliminating the only HSR stop in an NEC member state and letting purely subjective doodles on a map trump all actual demand data that says Wilmington is very important indeed...that matters.



This gets exactly to my main beef of "What questions are NEC FUTURE even asking?". When self-justification requires overruling the wishes of the #2 and #4 largest CBD's on the Corridor, and freezing out one of the 8 states that will have to float majority of the cost for this (maybe 2 of 8 if Rhode Island comes out on the losing end of the Worcester vs. Providence false choice)...who is this initiative really serving? It's clearly not for managing NEC demand since these are big fricking slices of NEC demand being trampled over. So whose line is it?

The real estate developers who have fortunes to make turning Market East into the "new heart" of the Philly CBD?
The people making short-haul flights from Reagan National to JFK or Logan who treat everything between airport terminals as flyover country?

Who is served by this, and why is NEC FUTURE making them mutually exclusive when the NEC from Day 1 has been an intricate layer cake of overlapping constituencies? Why are we having our time wasted on first introduction getting sucked into a game of picking high-stakes city-on-city winners and losers for a project hasn't defined what it wants to accomplish for whom? Aren't those decisions we should have a well-defined mission statement, agreed-upon core constituency, and well-defined set of performance metrics set in place BEFORE we start fighting about whether it's right and just for Wilmington to have drawn short straw?
 
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Baltimore Penn is too far north, really. The proposed Charles Center Station is basically right under the tallest buildings in town (a pretty good proxy for "Center" of CBD)
 
The tallest building in a city is not necessarily at the center and often isn't. By that logic we should move to have Back Bay station be the biggest most important station in Boston then because it is closest to the JHT and therefore clearly closest to the most important part of the CBD. Thats inside the CBD but not near the absolute highest concentration of jobs like South Station is being next to the Financial District.

I won't say that means the Baltimore move is a bad idea I don't know enough about Baltimore to make that judgement but using the tallest building in a city as a proxy for the center of the CBD is a pretty poor standard. As far as Philly the city is specifically been directing development towards the 30th Street Station from what I have seen so I don't think making Market East the most important is a good idea it would be like making Back Bay station the main one for Boston in that while it is in the CBD it isn't as well located as the other station that is currently the main station.
 
Tallest building is a *great* proxy. The tall(est) buildings get put "there" for general business propinquity. That the Pru and JHT are in Back Bay only goes to show that there's a chicken-and-egg dynamic with Back Bay Station.

Or how about the acute absence of tall buildings around Baltimore Penn? Exactly ZERO of the 20 tallest buildings in Baltimore are north of US-40 (which crosses the circle below from a clockface 10:30 to 1:30)

I know Baltimore from 2 summers as a legal messenger (a Looong time ago, but trust me, it hasn't changed much/enough except that Johns Hopkins Hospital is even more important % of the city's economy now than it was then)

Give it a flyover in Google Maps Light Street @ E. Baltimore. The three tallest (and essentially all) of the tall buildings are *right there*, and those that aren't are going in on the southwest side of the inner harbor (at "Harbor East" and "Harbor Point" at the clockface 4:00 position in the circle)...nothing is moving north toward Penn.

Here's how Baltimoreans draw it. City Center never lost it centrality--the banks, the law firms, the federal court, the live theater, etc. The inner harbor was kind of like the South Boston waterfront until Rouse Co. cleaned it up (cloning the success of Quincy Market in Boston, 'cept from a clean sheet of paper)
DMAMap.jpg


Penn is basically the (only) anchor that pulls "Mount Vernon" as far north as it goes (and the B&O's 1898 Mount Royal station is up at that far end too...it was hot stuff 1890 to 1915).

You will get disagreement on how far north the CBD goes, but the northern boundary line is somewhere south of the green boundary across the green "City Center" on the map above, all about 1 block +/- of US 40 as it cuts east-west across the city.

Also look at how the bus system works (both before and after its reorganization) with "Charles Center" being pretty aptly named as the center of the bus system. (kind of like Post Office Sq / Haymarket in Boston)

My premise has been that if you're hauling out a TBM for a $Xbillion replacement for the western approach to penn, you'd probably get a Charles Center station built for 2x or 3x, and be gladder that you did.
 
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Here's a better idea: Why don't we let Baltimore and the economy of Baltimore's CBD weigh in on this instead of having the FRA bark it over their heads?


A debate between a bunch of non-Baltimoreans about what Baltimore's CBD truly is just proves the point I was trying to make about how fucked this whole process is. They have no clue what questions they're asking, but they are sure as sure can be that the lines and station sites they drew on the map are the answers to it all and that everyone will roll with it. This thread is taking that bait hook, line, sinker by opening up a time-waster sidebar about defining/re-defining the boundaries of Baltimore's CBD. Or what we perceive from outside of Baltimore that Baltimoreans will think those boundaries are. What possible relevance does this have to moving pre-existing demand up and down the Corridor faster, more reliably, through fewer bottlenecks? Is this a High Speed Rail development coalition or a HUD real estate development program? Somebody at the FRA might want to get on with setting that straight for the record, because we're seeing in real time on this thread just how confused the motives are.


Philly has already asserted itself on that matter, that over its dead body are outsiders going to redefine its CBD for them. Baltimore will have its say soon enough. If that does indeed capture a major groundswell of advocacy for "if you're considering major NEC realignments, then you MUST right a historical wrong and re-center our train station on Charles Center"...yeah, then it becomes relevant fodder. I somewhat doubt there's much groundswell about Baltimore Penn. Its location has been debated ad nauseam and rarely generates palpable strong feelings one way or another about whether it is or isn't working fine enough where it currently is. So absent the locals making a full-throated pitch for something better, why is it the FRA's job to impose it on them? What question about Northeast Corridor service is being asked that such an action emphatically answers for the the good of the whole Corridor? Should the FRA be getting this knee-deep involved in what's for the good of Baltimore when Baltimore itself isn't sure there's a problem that needs solving?

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Philly hasn't really decided on anything yet...the Market East plan is supported by South Jersey urbanists who point out spill over economic boom that would occur in Camden and nearby cities and towns with PATCO/RiverLine service. I know the Baltimore plan is supported by Urbanists down there , but they want the Tunnels to be replaced first and a few other things like the canceled red line to be built before the New HSR plan goes through.
 
Philly hasn't really decided on anything yet...the Market East plan is supported by South Jersey urbanists who point out spill over economic boom that would occur in Camden and nearby cities and towns with PATCO/RiverLine service.

In other words: this is emphatically a real estate development program, not a High Speed Rail program. It has jack squat to do with the Northeast Corridor, everything to do with urban renewal in the city of Philly.

Sorry...that just underscores in triplicate everything that is wrong here and why nothing is going to come of NEC FUTURE until it's ritualistically killed. The Federal Railroad Administration is not in the business of selling real estate. Why is it running point on a program that seeks to do that as its primary end?

I know the Baltimore plan is supported by Urbanists down there , but they want the Tunnels to be replaced first and a few other things like the canceled red line to be built before the New HSR plan goes through.

Right...the tunnels that end up solving the capacity constraint as an SGR line item. The bypassing of Baltimore Penn for a new station bypasses billions of dollars in capacity and SGR improvements from the Infrastructure Improvements Master Plan 10 years after they're fixed. There is no capacity or performance angle whatsoever to the bypass. Not even in travel time savings, because that barely matters seconds to the schedule on approach to one of the dwell-heaviest station stops on the whole route.

Build twice as many tunnels for the pure thrill of real estate speculation! No wonder some urbanists like it! And no wonder Baltimore has umpteen other priorities it considers way more important than this.



These aren't points in favor of the alignments. They are points in favor of stabbing NEC FUTURE harder because real estate development in single undervalued sectors of an individual city is not the purview of a Federal Railroad Administration project tasked with enhancing train service on a national corridor linking 8 states, over a dozen cities' CBD's, and all that fans out from there on the great unbroken megalopolis this national corridor spans.
 
Penn Station is not in Downtown , Charles Center is... The Cancelled Red line would have formed a major hub at Charles Center... So building it and the New Amtrak Tunnels which will have MARC upgrades will greatly benefit the cities connection to DC... Long Term adding a new station at Charles Center isn't a bad idea , its in the heart of the CBD & near all the tourist attractions.... HSR for Philly is a mix of relieving stress on the regional transportation system and giving Philly/South Jersey a major economic injection from New York/North Jersey.
 
Here's a better idea: Why don't we let Baltimore and the economy of Baltimore's CBD weigh in on this instead of having the FRA bark it over their heads?
To the extent that Maryland (under O'Malley) had a rail vision for Baltimore, it was all about:
1) A system centered on Charles Center
2) how to "fix" Penn's location by providing better transit from Penn to Charles Center, with new lines to "Provide a direct connection from Penn Station to Charles Center"

To the extent the Republican Gov Hogan has a plan, it is the bus plan linked above, which is also centered on Charles Center.

Beyond that, Baltimore has not been permitted to even dream that Amtrak would come through Charles Center--theyve had to struggle so hard just to get people's attention on the the B&P Tunnel's long-past-due need for replacement. (and which would continue in use for some Commuter rail even if a Charles Center station opened). When Gov O'Malley and Reps Cummings and Sarbanes were scraping together $ for B&P studies it wasn't because it was a preferred alignment, it was because it was a crisis replacement need.

It is hard to argue that NEC Future is poorly serving Baltimore here by offering them the option of a station beneath their counterpart to our Downtown Crossing or DC's Metro Center.
 
F-Line: I see your point about SGR. So I have a related question:

What are/should be some of the top-priority SGR items for the NEC
 
Penn Station is not in Downtown , Charles Center is... The Cancelled Red line would have formed a major hub at Charles Center... So building it and the New Amtrak Tunnels which will have MARC upgrades will greatly benefit the cities connection to DC... Long Term adding a new station at Charles Center isn't a bad idea , its in the heart of the CBD & near all the tourist attractions.... HSR for Philly is a mix of relieving stress on the regional transportation system and giving Philly/South Jersey a major economic injection from New York/North Jersey.

To the extent that Maryland (under O'Malley) had a rail vision for Baltimore, it was all about:
1) A system centered on Charles Center
2) how to "fix" Penn's location by providing better transit from Penn to Charles Center, with new lines to "Provide a direct connection from Penn Station to Charles Center"

To the extent the Republican Gov Hogan has a plan, it is the bus plan linked above, which is also centered on Charles Center.

Beyond that, Baltimore has not been permitted to even dream that Amtrak would come through Charles Center--theyve had to struggle so hard just to get people's attention on the the B&P Tunnel's long-past-due need for replacement. (and which would continue in use for some Commuter rail even if a Charles Center station opened). When Gov O'Malley and Reps Cummings and Sarbanes were scraping together $ for B&P studies it wasn't because it was a preferred alignment, it was because it was a crisis replacement need.

It is hard to argue that NEC Future is poorly serving Baltimore here by offering them the option of a station beneath their counterpart to our Downtown Crossing or DC's Metro Center.

Read the fine print on the NEC FUTURE alternatives. The new spine is Amtrak-only. The MARC Penn Line does not get to play inside the new toy. It continues using the old alignment through Baltimore Penn (the old alignment they're building spankin' new tunnels for as an SGR item). The only way to reach Charles Center on commuter rail is via the slow, poor-performing, light-ridership Camden Line which would get extended from its stub-end terminal in front of the ballpark into this new stop.

Camden Line has limited growth potential to step up its service because it uses the freight mainline and freight tunnels that hit the Port of Baltimore. It's an auxiliary line by nature. Penn Line, which has now been sheared off from the Amtrak transfer in Baltimore, then has a sharp service growth ceiling imposed on it the whole way from D.C. to Baltimore by NEC FUTURE's fuzzy TPH math (the same sort of math that whacks MBTA service frequencies here, but magically preserves the commuter service density on same number of tracks elsewhere). This is why they are proposing right now to rebuild the BWI Airport station as a multi-modal Taj Mahal; the Airport is the new local-to-regional transfer point once the Penn Line gets kicked out of paradise.

This serves the Rail Vision for Baltimore...how, exactly??? By fragmenting all their terminals such that it's abso-fuckin'-lutely useless for anyone who has to use commuter rail because they're stuck with. . .

a) a transfer at the Airport quite very far from the CBD, on an overstuffed Penn Line that is forever consigned to near-zero service growth because "I/me/mine".

b) the craptacular and meandering Camden Line, which doesn't serve nearly as populous a slice of suburbs as the Penn Line and is capped by crush-load freight service. And which to substantially improve passenger headways you'd have to build yet another tunnel to bypass the freight tunnel.

c) a transfer from headway-crippled commuter rail at Baltimore Penn to light rail to Amtrak at Charles Center, so Baltimore can experience a slice of the heaven Boston experiences by having its main commuter rail terminals physically separated by a mile.


That's not an improvement. That's a shrapnel bomb dropped on the Baltimore CBD that fragments the hell out of their transit nodes. It makes mobility from outside the CBD into the CBD so much worse that many commuter rail riders are going to need to switch out of commuter trains and into cars. But it is a real nifty profit-maker for real estate developers, no? Especially those around the Airport!


If they're melancholy that Amtrak hasn't "given them a chance to dream" because of foot-dragging on the SGR line items, wait until they've dug into the fine print and see the contradictions that NEC FUTURE is taking great pains to keep well-hidden in the glossies while it does its dog-and-pony PowerPoint tour. Melancholy's going to turn to rage very quickly when they see what a steaming dump the service segregation takes over the "Vision" for the CBD.
 
F-Line: I see your point about SGR. So I have a related question:

What are/should be some of the top-priority SGR items for the NEC

What the Infrastructure Improvements Master Plan says they are: https://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/870/270/Northeast-Corridor-Infrastructure-Master-Plan.pdf. SGR items and the capacity bottleneck-elimination items are immaculately itemized there, co-signed by every state and every co-tenant commuter rail agency, and illustrated with track charts and everything. Some of the bottleneck replacments that are megaprojects unto themselves are marked "TBD's", but that document is pretty much the bucket list to end all bucket lists on the existing NEC.

We could spend another 50 pages of another thread picking nits through a microscope on individual things...from whether form-over-function is making a mess of Penn/Moynihan right down to debating why Sharon only has 3 tracks while South Attleboro has 4. In the big picture those are just changeable details. The big picture has pretty universal agreement on the Really Important Things that need to be done.


Now...why is there so much overlap on SGR with the performance enhancement that NEC FUTURE seeks when most of the SGR are just in-situ repair of infrastructure that decayed too far? Because other than the deplorable state of the infrastructure the most "third-world" thing about the NEC is how imprecise the scheduling is compared to its "first-world" brethren. Too much padding has to get larded into every schedule from commuter rail right up to the Acela, because too much is unpredictable about what the train is going to encounter on its end-to-end journey. NEC schedules have to lug around too large a "chaos" tax, and can't be predicted with enough milepost-to-milepost / interlocking-to-interlocking accuracy to run at full throttle. Every mind-numbing little SGR thing contributes +1 seconds of extra uncertainty at a time. To every train. With every train's chaos bloat cascading into the next train's.

  • General deferred maintenance:
    • Signal drop-outs, switching problems, saggy old wire in summertime. Happens every day end-to-end, total crapshoot which train is going to draw the short straw and get stuck in a cascading delay caused by misbehaving old hardware.
    • Uncertainty in how long it'll take for an old movable bridge to open/close. Too many movable bridges that don't have to be movable. Too many of the bridges that have to be movable retaining obsolete-design swing and bascule mechanisms instead of more reliable modern lift or bascule mechanisms.
    • Onboard equipment failures from multiple schedules (esp. commuter rail) running obsolete equipment at once.
    • Inefficient and too-variable station dwell times. All those low platforms in MBTA, SEPTA, and MARC territory. All those too-short platforms in Metro North territory where New Haven Line trains can overspill the platforms by anywhere from 2-6 cars. All those too-narrow platforms at NY Penn that can't discharge passengers to the exits in time.
    • etc., etc., etc.


Then you have the stuff that may not be in a poor physical state of repair, but constitutes "obsolete" traffic management:

  • At-grade junctions. Having some of the most vital and vulnerable junctions on the system being at-grade is an absolute schedule murderer.
    • Shell Interlocking where the New Haven Line and Hell Gate Line merge in New Rochelle, NY? It's basically left up to chaos who's going to get there first. And since that's almost always a Metro North train given sheer frequency of Metro North trains, Amtrak always has to lard its schedule with the maximum fudge factor such that it can always absorb a Metro North headway's worth of wait if somebody's more than a few seconds off on arrival time to Shell (which they always are, thanks to SGR and station dwell drag).
    • The inverse hurts commuter rail just as badly where Amtrak dispatch is the alpha dog. MARC worst in absolute terms, NJ Transit worst relative to their size.
    • Short-turns and terminal districts gumming up the works. See Stamford on the New Haven Line. You've got that distended slow area east of the station where the New Caanan branch is mixing/matching, and the yard limits where the New Haven-Stamford and GCT-Stamford locals are turning, and everyone's cutting across each other at a lackadaisical 25 MPH for a maddening couple miles. That chews up absolutely depressing amounts of track capacity with depressing quantities of chaos padding. This is why they speak of the mythical "Mid-line Loop" in New Jersey in such hushed tones. Short-turning on the NEC sucks when it has to be done somewhere other than a mega-terminal like D.C., NY Penn / Sunnyside Yard, New Haven, South Station / Southampton Yard.

  • Geometric obsolescence. Curve-straightening, superelevation, etc.
    • Movable bridges that have to stay open too long because of narrow shipping channels slowing boat traffic, or have a mechanism too inflexible to adjust to lighter/heavier boat traffic. This is the "performance" reason why lift bridges are better nearly every time vs. swings, and better than many (not all, but many) types of bascules: they lift fast, they lift variable-height to the height of the boat, and they leave a wider shipping channel underneath so the boats get through and the bridge reopens for rail faster on the stopwatch.
    • Track geometry improvements that can be done entirely within current property lines, but only if an SGR blocker gets addressed like replacing an 80-year-old overpass with arbitrarily-placed abutments. See also all the culverts that need reworking before you can start playing superelevation games. The majority count of possible geometric improvements for higher raw speeds don't require property acquisition at all, they require managing the SGR churn-over with an eye towards performance enhancement.
    • Expand that list out to how many can be solved by *strips* of property-taking, and not whole-property taking. i.e. Fun with retaining walls working more space out of an earthen embankment without breaching that abutter's backyard fence at the top/bottom of the embankment. More difficult EIS'ing because it expands the property lines, but still not a parcel grab.

  • Underfunded commuter rail and local transit agencies. Off-NEC branchlines and terminals affect the predictability of NEC train positions a lot. When the CR agencies aren't equipped to streamline their own ops, the NEC takes it on the chin in extra "chaos" padding.
    • SEPTA probably has the most intricate system of merging/diverging lines in and around the NEC. And they are one of the most dilapidated systems in terms of overall SGR. Although they stay grade separated from mainline NEC traffic through the terminal by using Center City, how much are they held back by their own SGR funding backlog for reliably timing their run-thru slots to/from the Media-Elwyn Line and Chestnut Hill West if something on the matching pair through Center City is late? This stuff matters.
    • The severe overcrowding on NJ Transit to/from Trenton matters when they can't come up with funding for bringing back the West Trenton Line and do the RiverLINE extension from Trenton to West Trenton to tie it together. Those 12-car trains of bi-levels chew up a lot of station dwell time. Anything to spread the load further afield helps a ton on their scheduling accuracy.
    • MARC. They are currently playing a game of chicken threatening to de-electrify the Penn Line and start running it diesel push-pull because they don't have the in-house scale to maintain their own electric locomotives, and can't justify the extremely high electricity rates they're being charged. Why is this being allowed to happen.
    • MBTA. We all know what a poor position the Needham Line is in going forward. And we know the SW Corridor tunnel is a bottleneck that can't be easily fixed on capacity or curvature without cure becoming worse than disease. Shouldn't some of the improvements be holistically funded and target Needham Line conversion to rapid transit, follow-through on the Indigo Line (like Fairmount electrification), and rapid transit circulator builds so Ruggles and Back Bay dwells get kept in-check over the long term?

I could go on and on, but you get the picture. It's a whole lot more than just repairing the corridor to vintage 1930 condition. A full-fronted assault on "chaos" factors hands you a large schedule savings end-to-end by stripping out the padding, crams lots of extra TPH's in there sans the padding, trims station dwells, and makes mixing/overtaking other traffic more pinpoint-accurate from dozens-to-hundreds miles further out...meaning more accurate OTP (the kind of OTP reliability that finally goes head-and-shoulders above car or plane). Across-the-board that is a majority of the performance improvement without any substantial change to the routing, not one single change to the station sitings, and just the dead-obvious capacity expansions (Gateway Tunnel, quad-tracking in Maryland, etc.) cited in the Improvements Master Plan.





Then and only then do you have precise enough picture of how the corridor is performing to be able to make decisions about alt spines and bypasses. You still have the unimprovable Shoreline to tackle. That whole Eastern CT debate doesn't change. But what about that Long Island bypass? If the reason for building it is because the New Haven Line has a service ceiling...don't you have to know what the New Haven Line's true service ceiling is shorn of all its "chaos" fudge factor before you can make a reliable guesstimate as to how high a priority the LI spine is? Nobody has done that. The Infrastructure Improvements Master Plan only games out the SGR stuff that must be done or else the trains will stop running, and makes impassioned plea for supplemental projects like grade separating Shell Interlocking. Step 2 is rolling the Master Plan's SGR fixes up with the whole smorgasboard of non-SGR "chaos" improvements, then doing a precise traffic modeling, THEN saying "OK...here's the hard ceiling on the New Haven Line and this is the year projected growth is going to reach it." If that year is 2060 instead of 2035 maybe that LI spine should be a study dusted off another day.



NEC FUTURE doesn't care about looking into that kind of stuff. It wants to study out the LI bypass right now as a real estate development program. Most of these bypasses once you tease out the contradictions in the fine print reek of a thinly papered-over real estate development program. The TPH's are thrown at a dartboard from commuter rail system to system. Everything is predicated on physical segregation of tracks, like that Baltimore terminal shitshow that fragments rather than unites their CBD. The metrics for why a given alignment was taken are absent. It assumes that the Infrastructure Master Plan--all $100B of it--will have spent its way to completion beforehand, but works from today's instead of post-SGR's traffic modeling to pick whose commuter slots get capped.

The whole bloody thing is resting on a foundation of bullshit. We have no idea what service levels NEC FUTURE's vision can truly support because they didn't bother looking. At least come from a starting point of the best the Infrastructure Master Plan--100% SGR + the duh-obvious bucket list of capacity enhancements like the grade separations--before waging territorial war over every tenant commuter rail agency and carving TBM scars all up and down the coast. As a starting point, this is less-than-worthless.
 
http://www.courant.com/news/connect...eline-amtrak-worries-0209-20160208-story.html

New London County audience + pols gives the one-fingered salute to Alt. 1 Near-Shoreline Bypass to the FRA in their meeting. With good reason, given the ghastly amount of property takings. Both CT Senators and the local Congresscritter have fired off letters of protest, so consider that one as good as dead.


Not looking like very many of these alt spines are going to survive calendar year 2016 at the rate the FRA is coming away from this first round of public presentations licking their wounds. It's only been a month into the dog-and-pony show and Philly, Long Island, and Southeast CT ended up as bad a first impression as the agency could possibly make.
 
So it looks like Alon Levy's prized route is dead , I guess it will have to go Inland...
 
Does this mean the Hartford routing becomes more likely?

Yes. But that's what the state preferred all along. They had no input in the FRA's work just like none of the states had any input, so this was all FRA go-it-alone. With predictable results.

Act II for Connecticut is the ritualistic killing of the Westchester bypass. In addition to that firestorm of protest coming from abutters, it also puts the state in a no-win situation of pitting Hartford HSR against HSR loss in Fairfield County. They know already that Hartford's chances of joining the NEC spine are highest if it's linked to New Haven, Bridgeport, and Stamford...and not in direct competition with the New Haven Line. So my guess is they sit back, wait for that presentation to go down in flames, Sen.'s Blumenthal + Murphy send their perfunctory letters of protest...and THEN Gov. Malloy, ConnDOT, and the political coalition starts asserting itself strongly for the Springfield Line + inland bypass alignment. Hands-off ends up the best policy for the moment because the FRA has to finish burning down its own house first, but there'll be an immediate pivot after that where the state tries to wrest momentum from the feds and backs the alignment that pisses the fewest people off, has the largest backing coalition of intra-state votes, and can show a nice fat round number on new ridership gains.



Just consider all this "Act I: Tragedy." Everybody has to ritualistically die before the story can go on.
 
http://www.courant.com/news/connect...eline-amtrak-worries-0209-20160208-story.html

New London County audience + pols gives the one-fingered salute to Alt. 1 Near-Shoreline Bypass to the FRA in their meeting. With good reason, given the ghastly amount of property takings. Both CT Senators and the local Congresscritter have fired off letters of protest, so consider that one as good as dead.


Not looking like very many of these alt spines are going to survive calendar year 2016 at the rate the FRA is coming away from this first round of public presentations licking their wounds. It's only been a month into the dog-and-pony show and Philly, Long Island, and Southeast CT ended up as bad a first impression as the agency could possibly make.

Having grown up in the area, this is exactly what I expected to happen.
 

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