[ARCHIVED] Harbor Garage Redevelopment | 70 East India Row | Waterfront | Downtown

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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

What we basically blog to ourselves about on here, Chiofaro is doing on a much broader platform. I'll write to whoever I can. This is probably the best chance of weakening the Boss's grip untill he leaves office.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

This campaign is a few months late... if Donny would eventually take this tack anyway, why wait until after the election?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

It's time to Flood the BRA with letters. I'm just tired of the corruption.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

For me, at the beginning it was a battle to have an iconic tower in Boston but that's all done with. I'm supporting Don because of how RFK is not at its full potential and the crappy process and unreasonable restriction the BRA has pushed upon all developers. I don't care if the building gets built. I want the change. Gimme the email address and I'll write to them too.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

I can't understand how people that posted comments on Boston.com can insult International Place and call it ugly, massive, out of scale and shadowy.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Architects are one of the most unappreciated jobs in the world and the reason being that is it almost takes an architect to appreciate architecture. It's like how only the rich or well-learned people can appreciate fine arts in a museum. Most people aren't those.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Good architecture should be easily appreciated by all. I should not need a degree to spot something that Mr. College degree (in what amounts to an art degree) put in there for his Architect snob buddies to notice. Architecture began as art, by artists. The great buildings of the past such as St. Peter's Basilica were not designed by architects, but by artisans and artists.

You cannot teach art in my eye, but you can foster and help it grow. The importance in architectural training is more in the understanding of the structural elements and other engineering information relative to a building that the artists of the distant past did not have access to. You know like why the big ol domes they designed had to be reinforced afterwards because they didn't fully understand the physics of it.

I'm sorry your comment rubbed me wrong I guess. I couldn't see the sail boat in the magic eye poster either, and neither could Mr. Pitt and he was both rich and well educated.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

KentXie said:
Architects are one of the most unappreciated jobs in the world and the reason being that is it almost takes an architect to appreciate architecture. It's like how only the rich or well-learned people can appreciate fine arts in a museum. Most people aren't those.
Click to expand...

These comments are misbegotten in ways and for reasons that I (or anybody else) could go on and on about. If your interest is in pursuing a career in architecture, I hope you'll examine this question more carefully.

On a related note, it might be interesting to have a separate thread for debating the question of under-appreciation and what it means for practices like architecture, if one doesn't already exist.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

SeamusMcFly said:
Good architecture should be easily appreciated by all. I should not need a degree to spot something that Mr. College degree (in what amounts to an art degree) put in there for his Architect snob buddies to notice. Architecture began as art, by artists. The great buildings of the past such as St. Peter's Basilica were not designed by architects, but by artisans and artists.

You cannot teach art in my eye, but you can foster and help it grow. The importance in architectural training is more in the understanding of the structural elements and other engineering information relative to a building that the artists of the distant past did not have access to. You know like why the big ol domes they designed had to be reinforced afterwards because they didn't fully understand the physics of it.

I'm sorry your comment rubbed me wrong I guess. I couldn't see the sail boat in the magic eye poster either, and neither could Mr. Pitt and he was both rich and well educated.
Click to expand...
I didn't mean to but what I meant is that you either have to have interest in architecture, or have studied architecture to appreciate it. It's like a kid wandering into an art museum. Unless the kid actually has interest in art, they wouldn't care about the painting. Most people don't look at architecture like that.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

SeamusMcFly said:
Good architecture should be easily appreciated by all. I should not need a degree to spot something that Mr. College degree (in what amounts to an art degree) put in there for his Architect snob buddies to notice. Architecture began as art, by artists. The great buildings of the past such as St. Peter's Basilica were not designed by architects, but by artisans and artists.

You cannot teach art in my eye, but you can foster and help it grow. The importance in architectural training is more in the understanding of the structural elements and other engineering information relative to a building that the artists of the distant past did not have access to. You know like why the big ol domes they designed had to be reinforced afterwards because they didn't fully understand the physics of it.
Click to expand...

Anyone can appreciate good architecture just as anyone can appreciate good art. You don't have to be educated to know you like a painting, performance, musical piece, or a building. Being able to articulate why you like something, identify components or influences, and being able to judge merits and value come with formal training.

The problem is that the art in architecture has largely been lost. Not much of what is built today can be considered art, therefore those who practice the profession of architecture can rarely be considered as practicing an art form.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

What I don't understand about development in this state. Our political leaders talk about JOBS, JOBS, JOBS. Developers offer proposals for these types of developments for Harbor Garage and Congress St to create jobs. Why is our Governers or Senators just sitting and watching all this crap going on. Shouldn't they be bringing people together to create jobs and help Boston Grow as a community?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

ferdydyrke's pupa said:
On a related note, it might be interesting to have a separate thread for debating the question of under-appreciation and what it means for practices like architecture, if one doesn't already exist.
Click to expand...

I love arguing about these sorts of things. It's a busy afternoon at my desk, so I'll simply recycle my thoughts in support of Kent's basic premise, that most people don't "think" about architecture.

In regard to this proposal, I'm for it because it could be a catalyst to transform (and better define) the connection between the Greenway and the waterfront by creating an atmosphere for dawn-midnight activity. William Pederson's design is imperfect, but it's worlds more imaginative than anything green-lighted in Boston in the past decade.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Developer escalates skyscraper debate with Menino
April 28, 2010 02:48 PM E-mail| |Comments (1)| Text size ? + By Casey Ross, Globe Staff

Taking direct aim at Mayor Thomas M. Menino, developer Don Chiofaro today accused the mayor of wasting hundreds of thousands of dollars on a zoning review whose preconceived conclusion was to block his $1 billion plan to build two skyscrapers on the city's waterfront.

In a rare public challenge to Menino, Chiofaro held a press conference at his International Place development to release the findings of his own study and call out the mayor for refusing to compromise.

"The city is letting the narrow interest of a small group and personal vendettas guide their decisions," said Chiofaro, who has proposed to build two towers -- one 45 stories, the other 50 -- on land between the New England Aquarium and the Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy Greenway.

A city study of property along the Greenway last month concluded that development on his parcel should be limited to 200 feet -- less than one-third of the 625-foot complex Chiofaro wants to build.

In his comments today, Chiofaro urged citizens to tell Menino they support his proposal.

"We intend to keep the pressure up until we get honest answers from the person pulling the strings on this process, and we all know who that is," he said.

Though he didn't mention him by name, Menino was clearly the target of his remarks. The mayor could not be immediately reached to respond to Chiofaro, but in the past he has had no shortage of rebuttals to the developer's comments.

Menino has accused Chiofaro of brazenly pursuing profits at the expense of the city and of proposing a project that would overshadow the Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy Greenway and Boston Harbor -- a pair of public assets that taxpayers have spent billions of dollars to protect.

"It's very shortsighted of developers to complain that they paid a lot for their property, and they want a return on their investment," Menino said in a Globe story on height limitations last month. "I don't think that's right. The taxpayers paid to create the Greenway, and they want it to be accessible."

During his press conference today, Chiofaro said he is "flexible" about his proposal and is willing to lower the height an unspecified amount in order to win approval build on the property.

However, the study he released today concluded that development on the property would have to be at least 500 feet to make it economically feasible, meaning there remains a huge gulf between him and the city.

Meanwhile, Boston Redevelopment Authority -- the agency responsible for reviewing the proposal -- has said Chiofaro has not adequately responded to its requests for more information about the potential environmental impacts of his proposal.

To read a story in today's Globe about the ongoing debate between Menino and Chiofaro, please click here.

http://www.boston.com/business/ticker/2010/04/developer_escal.html
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Harbor Garage project would open water views, access from downtown
(Wendy Maeda/Globe Staff)
By John Copley
April 29, 2010

AS ONE OF the original designers of the Rose Kennedy Greenway, I can say that the parks were intended to provide cross-connection to the waterfront, a recreational setting and a framework for future additions, overlays, and enhancements.

The first phase of the Greenway was built with public funding. Now private capital should be invested for improvements. Developer Don Chiofaro?s offer of $50 million to expand the public realm of the Greenway and the harborfront ? the accessible free space between private buildings ? is a much-needed boost. His Harbor Garage project would provide a major infusion to the development of the Greenway. By providing mitigation benefits to the Greenway and Harborwalk, Chiofaro is, in essence, creating an unofficial Business Improvement District to help fulfill the Greenway?s promise. The initial capital outlay to build the three parks was $27 million; Chiofaro?s proposal would nearly double the initial investment and improve the character of the Greenway.

The overarching goals for development and density should be based on the creation and support of an enhanced public realm. This includes relief from building footprints that extend to the property line; and visual and physical permeability from the Greenway to the harbor.

The Harbor Garage project can foster a new Harbor Square and create a dynamic mixed-use space with direct contact to the harbor?s cultural assets; and one that complements and elevates the intent of the Wharf District Park?s ?Great Room.?? It could also create a gateway from the water into our city.

Lower height restrictions would result in squat buildings with little composition or scale and a boxy barrier to the waterfront. Lower height also means broader building footprints that expand to the site?s edges, reducing both the views to the water and the possibility of generous pedestrian and public realm improvements. Most importantly, lower height would not be economically feasible and would be unable to support developer contributions to the public realm that the city deserves.

For example, Rowes Wharf, the oft-cited standard of waterfront development, has a remarkable 40 percent public open space, mostly on the waterfront. However, except for its iconic arch, Rowe?s Wharf is a visual and physical barrier to the water that extends 540 feet along the Greenway. Only 10 percent of its length offers visual and physical access to the water. The proposed design for the Harbor Garage site, with a lighter footprint on the waterfront and its large mid-block opening, creates water views and access on 32 percent of the 273 linear feet of frontage along the Greenway.

The Greenway ramp parcels were intended to accommodate great civic buildings and create programmed built edges to the Greenway. The YMCA, Center for Arts and Culture, and the Boston History Museum have thus far been incapable of proceeding for several reasons. One was the expense of building over the ramp parcels, much like the Harbor Garage site would be be built in difficult conditions. The reality of construction complexities adds to the burden of development in this economic recession. The Harbor Garage project can act as a stimulus to create an edge to the Greenway where no other building has been able to meet its promises. It would also help create jobs.

Finally, the shadow study recently presented by the Boston Redevelopment Authority shows that the difference between two tall buildings and one squat building is insignificant. The difference between the BRA?s building height limit of 400 feet and the developer?s proposed height of 600 feet is within the realm of reasonable negotiations. It is time for compromise and a return to the original goals, aspirations, and promise of the Greenway. This opportunity should not be missed.
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http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/e..._would_open_water_views_access_from_downtown/

yea...what he said.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

SHOWDOWN OVER THE GREENWAY | Bob Durand

Menino is right to reject proposals that put the area back in the shadows
Other developers may seek similar allowances from Mayor Menino.

By Bob Durand
April 29, 2010
E-mail this article To: Invalid E-mail address Add a personal message:(80 character limit) Your E-mail: Invalid E-mail address
Sending your articleYour article has been sent. E-mail| Print| Reprints| Yahoo! Buzz| ShareThisText size ? + SIX YEARS ago, tangible evidence of the future Rose Kennedy Greenway began appearing in Boston as work commenced on tearing down the elevated Central Artery highway. At street level, the Central Artery had created a dark urban canyon that divided the downtown area from the waterfront, North End, and South Boston Waterfront neighborhoods.

Now, sunlight once again reaches this area, restoring Boston?s legacy as a livable, walkable city. This strip of land has been transformed into a most improbable urban opportunity: new public open space in the heart of one of America?s oldest cities.

We should reject proposals that cast the Greenway back to the land of perpetual darkness. The Menino administration understands the significance of this opportunity and has adopted reasonable building height guidelines for the area adjacent to the Greenway, guidelines that will buoy all area property values, not just those of a select few. Those who believe Mayor Tom Menino?s sensible approach to urban planning is antidevelopment, or bad for Boston, are mistaken.

In reality, Menino has been an advocate for greater density through increased building heights ? but only where this type of development increases rather than diminishes the neighborhood?s vitality, such as in the core Financial District or along the Massachusetts Turnpike corridor.

Just as the city has been careful to limit new building heights adjacent to the Boston Common, the Public Garden, and the Esplanade, the mayor?s height guidelines for the Greenway help protect Boston?s new signature park while still promoting greater activation of the adjacent neighborhoods.

Few people have spent as much time discussing building heights with the mayor as I have. As the former state Secretary of Environmental Affairs, I approved six state waterfront plans and amendments in the City of Boston, many of which included controversies involving building heights.

The mayor was a forceful advocate for vibrant neighborhoods, with mixed uses including residential units, affordable housing, commercial space, and retail stores, to provide 24/7 activity and livability. Where we disagreed on building heights, the mayor was eager to find a solution that satisfied his concerns for viable neighborhoods and meet state and federal requirements.

His pro-development approach that characterized our discussions is also evident in the Greenway building height provisions. Far from cutting back on building sizes, the mayor envisions moderate increases in density along the Greenway through careful assessment of larger building envelopes, in some cases more than current zoning and state-imposed height limitations allow.

In the controversy over the Boston Harbor parking garage, developer Don Chiofaro has proposed replacing the existing parking garage with structures that are hundreds of feet higher than currently allowed. On their own, the project?s wind, shadow, and visual impacts may not kill the Greenway. But they must be seen in terms of the collective impacts of all potential projects along the Greenway corridor. Without a comprehensive approach to height limits, Chiofaro?s project will set the height standard that others will also demand. Unrestricted building heights would create more shadow and wind along the Greenway, and diminish the park?s potential to tie the city?s neighborhoods to the waterfront.

Menino?s proposal for constructive urban planning provides developers with reasonable expectations for future construction and creates a human-scale community along the Greenway. It would ensure that public parks and private development reconnect downtown Boston to its waterfront neighborhoods and to the harbor?s edge, for everyone to enjoy.

Bob Durand is president of Durand & Anastas Environmental Strategies.

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/e...posals_that_put_the_area_back_in_the_shadows/
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

And the negative Nancies are already out in full force in the comments section.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

"Those who believe Mayor Tom Menino?s sensible approach to urban planning is antidevelopment, or bad for Boston, are mistaken."

This sentence says it all. Menino must be taking some heat for what is going on. If the Mayor really believes he is right about the Greenway why is he trying to justify the situation in this article?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Once again, they employ scare tactics to boost support for their cause. Perpetual darkness. Really? I checked out the comment section. Most of them are not fooled by Menino and his cronies.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Chiofaro blasts mayor, review of zoning laws
?The city is letting the narrow interest of a small group, and personal vendettas, guide their decisions,? Don Chiofaro said. ?The city is letting the narrow interest of a small group, and personal vendettas, guide their decisions,? Don Chiofaro said.
By Casey Ross
Globe Staff / April 29, 2010
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Developer Don Chiofaro yesterday accused Boston Mayor Thomas M. Menino of wasting money on a recent review of city zoning rules that he said had a predetermined goal of blocking his $1 billion plan to build two skyscrapers on the waterfront.
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Chiofaro's efforts to push tower plans
Chiofaro's efforts to
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In a rare public challenge to Menino, Chiofaro held a press conference and rebuked the mayor for refusing to compromise on the size and scale of his proposed development at the site of the Harbor Garage, between Boston Harbor and the Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy Greenway. Chiofaro wants to build two towers, the taller topping out at 625 feet. The zoning review recommended new buildings on the property be no higher than 200 feet.

?The city is letting the narrow interest of a small group, and personal vendettas, guide their decisions,?? said Chiofaro.

Menino did not respond directly to Chiofaro yesterday. In the past he has not been reluctant to rebut Chiofaro, accusing the developer of brazenly pursuing profits by proposing a project that would cast shadows over the Greenway and waterfront, public assets that have been improved with billions in taxpayer dollars.

Moreover, officials at the Boston Redevelopment Authority, the agency responsible for reviewing Chiofaro?s proposal, said Chiofaro is the one holding up the process by refusing to respond to requests for additional information. The BRA asked him for more information as far back as July 2009, but officials assert that he hasn?t responded.

?If they want to get serious about engaging in the real issues of redevelopment, they should respond to the environmental concerns we raised in our review,?? said Susan Elsbree, a spokeswoman for the BRA.

Even without provoking the mayor, Chiofaro faces a long road to get his project approved. He must go through a lengthy environmental review by the state, as well as convince the city to support a petition to the state Legislature that would amend waterfront regulations that currently block his project.

Given the animus between Chiofaro and City Hall, it appears unlikely the two sides will join forces in that effort anytime soon.

During his comments yesterday, Chiofaro said the city has refused to engage him in his project and urged people to tell Menino they support what he?s trying to build. ?We intend to keep the pressure up until we get honest answers from the person pulling the strings on this process, and we all know who that is,?? he said, referring to Menino.

Chiofaro said he is ?flexible?? about his proposal and is willing to lower the height of the towers, but released his own analysis that the complex would have to be at least 500 feet tall to make it economically feasible, meaning there remains a huge gulf between him and the city.
? Copyright 2010 Globe Newspaper Company.


http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2010/04/29/chiofaro_blasts_mayor_review_of_zoning_laws/
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Love this quote from CommonWealth magazine:

?It?s a lot of noise,? Menino said during an interview at City Hall. ?It isn?t about making money. It?s about how it affects the city. We have rules and regulations for the Greenway, and one person can?t change those rules and regulations.?

Um, Mr Mayor? You change the rules ALL THE TIME.
 
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