Cambridge Crossing (NorthPoint) | East Cambridge/Charlestown | Cambridge/Boston

Hopefully people finally understand. As its been said over and over, theres a reason you only see labs up to 300'. Thats all you ever see, just look, theres clearly a reason.
 
Why are we so hung up on labs? There is plenty of residential and pure office here too. The residential in particular could easily go 30-50 stories higher than everything they are proposing or have built to date. The demand will be there, particularly as the MIT and MXD projects open their doors.
 
stick n move said:
Hopefully people finally understand. As its been said over and over, theres a reason you only see labs up to 300'. Thats all you ever see, just look, theres clearly a reason.
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Blackfan in Longwood is pushing 350', 18 floors. So 300'-350' is probably around the max we can get for labs at this point, but too many seem to be coming in under 200' in a high demand area.
 
JeffDowntown said:
Engineering is doable. But the finances simply do not work yet. Everything you are describing is massively expensive, and both increases the cost per square foot and decreases the usable space. Both are killers in real estate.

It hasn't been done yet because it doesn't make financial sense to do it yet. There is still easier money to be made.
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Nothing I said was insanely expensive. Longer ducts? Solvent delivery (expensive yes, but only in the lab on top model I mentioned)? Somewhat larger exhaust fans to overcome additional static (not really but an incremental increase). The main cost already exists in the 5-8 storey lab, just adding small amounts of cost to extend. Of course these for instances were talking about mixed use, and adding office and residential, not adding a ton of lab space. Keeping the same working lab model, and adding office and/or residential.

Adding lab is really what increases the cost for larger and larger air handlers and associated duct work. The shafts required would keep increasing the floor plate.

The numbers work if you lease the space, especially at the rates they are getting.

It's still just easier to do it the tried and proven way. The problem is, this eats up valuable buildable lots. Only to find out, we should have been going up sooner than later.

The costs of doing this in a single building would ultimately be cheaper than doing it in two separate buildings.
 
SeamusMcFly said:
Nothing I said was insanely expensive. Longer ducts? Solvent delivery (expensive yes, but only in the lab on top model I mentioned)? Somewhat larger exhaust fans to overcome additional static (not really but an incremental increase). The main cost already exists in the 5-8 storey lab, just adding small amounts of cost to extend. Of course these for instances were talking about mixed use, and adding office and residential, not adding a ton of lab space. Keeping the same working lab model, and adding office and/or residential.

Adding lab is really what increases the cost for larger and larger air handlers and associated duct work. The shafts required would keep increasing the floor plate.

The numbers work if you lease the space, especially at the rates they are getting.

It's still just easier to do it the tried and proven way. The problem is, this eats up valuable buildable lots. Only to find out, we should have been going up sooner than later.

The costs of doing this in a single building would ultimately be cheaper than doing it in two separate buildings.
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The CHOP expansion in Philly was originally supposed to be a tower with the hospital diagnostics and features on the bottom 8 or so floors and office/admin space in the tower floors above. The tower portion ended up getting lopped off and moved to a later phase. They left the MEPs capped and empty elevator shafts for tower services to be added later.
 
DZH22 said:
Why are we so hung up on labs? There is plenty of residential and pure office here too. The residential in particular could easily go 30-50 stories higher than everything they are proposing or have built to date. The demand will be there, particularly as the MIT and MXD projects open their doors.
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+1. That's what I've been saying all along, but it keeps gets ushered back to "But the labs...."

It's the "But the family farms......" argument in the Estate Tax debate.
 
DZH22 said:
Why are we so hung up on labs? There is plenty of residential and pure office here too. The residential in particular could easily go 30-50 stories higher than everything they are proposing or have built to date. The demand will be there, particularly as the MIT and MXD projects open their doors.
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Because people get mad about mentioning height here for some reason when this is one of like 3 places in the entire city that has land where the FAA allows you to go tall. The others are the triangle-ish area between dalton, boylston, belvidere, and mass ave, these are the pike parcels etc, which all have proposals and are in motion- not happening. Then you have the Cambridge waterfront roughly from Portland st over to the Charles. Basically all you have here is Volpe which teased a bit and then bailed. So that leaves all of NorthPoint other than glassworks ave and then the baseball diamonds in Charlestown next to 93 left to go to 1000'. Thats it in the entire city. After NorthPoint is built you basically can try the Dalton st garage or try to squeak one out somewhere in Cambridge and thats basically it. So you really just don't get that anywhere else in this city so I don't think its crazy to talk about more height here considering that this is literally all thats left and they're going for Seaport height. As I mentioned before Im not one that calls for height and Im not even doing it here, but I cant knock people doing it here because this is literally one of the only spots left in the entire city that has open land and a FAA max of 1000' and they're proposing stumps. Kind of weird to go that route, but to me personally I like whats proposed here and don't really think this is the greatest place for huge towers even if its all there is. We just have to accept that Boston is what it is. Taller than 300' should be happening here though we do need the space, so who knows what the future holds but it is weird to see how squat they are going in this rarefied space.
 
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I dunno... having built out, managed, changed and re-purposed lab space, I don't think I would like to live above a biotech lab.
 
Lab-rador retrievers will be popular in the area. Only the taller breeds.
 
Czervik.Construction said:
I dunno... having built out, managed, changed and re-purposed lab space, I don't think I would like to live above a biotech lab.
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There's probably a lot of people who feel similar.
There's 100's or 1000's of lab users who already spend the whole day in labs.
They also know how little of anything dangerous exists in most of the labs in the area.
Hell, every BSL-3 I've worked on recently, has no actual plans of handling BL3 agents. They just want a certified or validated lab space that could handle it in the future.

Then again the high rise mixed use lab isn't the same as the 500 sq. Ft., No real lab systems, startup space way out on Sidney or landsdowne street or the converted warehouse spaces out on Concord Ave. These are the places I might be a little more worried about what's in (or not being kept in) the lab.

In general, I'd have no issues living above a lab space. The mechanical space separating the uses would need to be double height undoubtedly, and would probably need some extra protection put in place to ease minds, but I don't think the radioactive lab rats are making their way up. No secret of nimh in the penthouse.

Office would be more likely for sure, and is in big demand as well.

Mixed use has caught on finally in Boston it would seem, but we haven't really seen the same in Cambridge. A lot of that I'd assume has to do with this aversion to height, and too many acres to still build short single use buildings.

Every industry event I attend continues to stress how Kendall is the hottest market, and running out of space, and their lab and office market is the tightest around, and etc etc. But, we're not seeing enough action to fix the current trends that lead to not enough space to house all these companies and their employees.
 
Not to get too off topic but can't you go tall in the West End as well? As in maybe not quite the magical 1000 feet but closer to 900, thus saving Cambridge land for more of the biotech lab construction that seems to be driving everything over there.
 
Rover said:
Not to get too off topic but can't you go tall in the West End as well? As in maybe not quite the magical 1000 feet but closer to 900, thus saving Cambridge land for more of the biotech lab construction that seems to be driving everything over there.
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Yes, there is a solid band of 900+ foot allowed in the airspace map from the West End across to North Station.
 
Always worth re-Googling "Logan Airspace Map" (or similar) which shows that "Greater Kendall-Lechmere" is all solidly in the 900' ~ 1000' range, and North Station-West End is in the 800' to 1000' range (but note that this is altitude so building height can be limited on higher land)

And then zoning works within the FAA envelope.

logan-airspace-map-jpg.jpg
 
Arlington said:
Always worth re-Googling "Logan Airspace Map" (or similar) which shows that "Greater Kendall-Lechmere" is all solidly in the 900' ~ 1000' range, and North Station-West End is in the 800' to 1000' range (but note that this is altitude so building height can be limited on higher land)

And then zoning works within the FAA envelope.
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My reading of the map is that you only get up to 1000' in Boston out by Mass Ave in Back Bay, and only the small corner around the Hynes is buildable to that height. But there is plenty of 800 to 950? space West End to North Station area (depending as you indicated on elevation).
 
Um ... according to the rules of the AB drinking game ... you must drink every time the FAA map gets posted. So ... Sante'.

cca
 
I chose poorly in posting; "RESIDENTIAL OVER LABS," proving once again, i'm a damn flawed human being.

i'd like to change that post to "Residential over offices 1 or 2 times reaching 600~700 feet, and maybe a few 10 or 20 floors of residential over some other office buildings during the next few years." i think it would be incredible. As far as i know, incredible is allowed in an expanding urban core. The good reasons seem numerous, You all pointed out good reasons for a bit of bolder planning here,

i believe the area would benefit from it, and maintain some greater flexibility in the future. it also creates a great aesthetic. No one should be flamed or insulted for their beliefs about pursuing limited 'OMFG' development; less on an architect forum.

Not speaking for Cambridge... but, the BPDA doesn't bring unreasonable proposals to the public realm. Therefore, more of you posters might consider coming out to 1 or 2 BPDA meetings per year to show support for smart development at a few crucial build sites.

It appears Thursday, November 16th might be 'THE DAY of 2017' to take a couple of hours to attend a meeting for what appears to be some very important projects that will continue to improve the urban environment.

Come out and show support for our local developers -- or (maybe) be bystanders to extremists thwarting more smart planning in Boston.
 
Saw a tower crane being assembled today from 93, is that for parcel H?
 
Any reason why Gilmore Bridge wasn't lowered to a ground level boulevard south of where it crosses over the active tracks? Of course when it was originally built there were active tracks passing under it on its south end, but that was decades ago.
 
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