Casey Overpass

Rt 128, I-90. I-93.

Not saying that removing this overpass won't be good for the quality of life in these neighborhoods, but it is silly to think reducing capacity doesn't degrade the overall system even if just slightly. People are just going to avoid the route except for local travel and this has an impact on other routes.

Those roads are at all a substitute for the Arborway... how? I'm honestly baffled at how anyone who's trying to get somewhere along the Arborway route would be better served post-Casey by getting on 128, 93, or 90... None of those highways touch destinations served by the Arborway/Jamaicaway.
 
Those roads are at all a substitute for the Arborway... how? I'm honestly baffled at how anyone who's trying to get somewhere along the Arborway route would be better served post-Casey by getting on 128, 93, or 90... None of those highways touch destinations served by the Arborway/Jamaicaway.

I am baffled at how you are baffled. I've been on Rt 128 heading north and gotten off the highway because of a backup and ended up on the arborway to get north of the city. I've also been on the arborway plenty of times to get from Dedham/West Roxbury area into or around town.

This is now a local road.... Which is fine for the locals. Not saying this isn't a net positive, especially considering that there were already other bottlenecks along this route. Just not a net positive for transportation
 
I am baffled at how you are baffled. I've been on Rt 128 heading north and gotten off the highway because of a backup and ended up on the arborway to get north of the city. I've also been on the arborway plenty of times to get from Dedham/West Roxbury area into or around town.

This is now a local road.... Which is fine for the locals. Not saying this isn't a net positive, especially considering that there were already other bottlenecks along this route. Just not a net positive for transportation

I think you need a little perspective here. You think people are going to bypass this: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/42....@42.2912533,-71.1121017,12z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0 via 128? 128? What possible O/D combo could possibly be served by both that and 128?
 
I am baffled at how you are baffled. I've been on Rt 128 heading north and gotten off the highway because of a backup and ended up on the arborway to get north of the city. I've also been on the arborway plenty of times to get from Dedham/West Roxbury area into or around town.

This is now a local road.... Which is fine for the locals. Not saying this isn't a net positive, especially considering that there were already other bottlenecks along this route. Just not a net positive for transportation

But the point was made that people would use traffic-signal free roads rather than go through the new intersection at Arborway and Washington. As if people going from Dorchester to Longwood (for example) will actually detour down 93, to 128, to 9 just to avoid the new signalized intersection? That's laughable.

If we're talking between Dedham and Fenway? Maybe they do belong on 128 and 9, instead. I don't really get how one new "square" to pass through is going to be so debilitating that the majority of trips on Casey revert to the peripheral highways instead...
 
This is now a local road.... Which is fine for the locals. Not saying this isn't a net positive, especially considering that there were already other bottlenecks along this route. Just not a net positive for transportation

You do realize the overpass has only been carrying one (slow) lane of car traffic in each direction for years now, right? The modeling out to the year 2035 shows a rush hour degradation of car Level of Service for through traffic traveling from Dorchester to Longwood of 90 seconds.

Saving 90 seconds for non-locals is a pretty poor rationale for extending the construction period by a couple of years and the costs by $20+ million - while leaving the Emerald Necklace broken and recreating visual blight. And claiming that a 90 second delay is an economic hardship, a health hazard, somehow a "civil rights violation" or a regional car commuting disaster as some have is, well, a stretch.

LOS for many of the local and N-S surface routes are significantly improved by the at-grade plan. But cars aren't the only part of the "transportation" story here. The new MBTA head house at the end of SW Corridor Park improves access and safety for T riders coming to FH station from the north - they won't have to cross the Arborway at all. Then there are the 3.1 miles of new off-street bikes paths which will help commuters and recreational users alike. The revamping of the station plaza itself isn't a performance benefit, but the ADA-triggered access improvements all around the station are beneficial.

The doom and gloom about regional car travel times just isn't supported by the data to a significant enough degree to undermine the overal net result of the project - unless that's your only criteria.
 
You do realize the overpass has only been carrying one (slow) lane of car traffic in each direction for years now, right? The modeling out to the year 2035 shows a rush hour degradation of car Level of Service for through traffic traveling from Dorchester to Longwood of 90 seconds.

^^THIS^^

How many months out of the year for the last 10 years has the Casey actually been operating at full capacity without construction crews disrupting it for upkeep? Civilization hasn't collapsed. This has been the state of affairs for so long at Forest Hills that simply building a new overpass is the equivalent of doing an add-a-lane for more induced demand capacity. In actual terms there's little if any capacity reduction with going at-grade and little if any change in flow because the overpass has operated with borked capacity for so long. Nor is a temporary change and adjustment period for modified traffic patterns a new experience in an area that's seen jersey barriers come and go, come and go multiple times per year.


The only commute 'adjustments' that haven't already been made are for the screaming to stop and people to get on with their lives.
 
The point was simply that traffic is being shifted away from this route and that has a negative effect all the way out to the major highways which are already over capacity. If Casey now takes an extra couple minutes that shifts traffic to other local roads which in turn shifts out to the highways.

And I agree the benefit outweighs the cost in this case, but the effects on transportation are purely negative. Future maintenance costs, aesthetics, sight lines seem like net positives here and make it worth doing, but where are we going to decrease transportation times to pick up the slack?
 
And I agree the benefit outweighs the cost in this case, but the effects on transportation are purely negative. Future maintenance costs, aesthetics, sight lines seem like net positives here and make it worth doing, but where are we going to decrease transportation times to pick up the slack?

How are the affects purely negative, unless you are limiting your definition of "transportation" to "cars only?" The effect of the project on vehicular travel times is a slight net negative, although I question whether even that is true when you compare it to a one lane in each direction overpass with surface conditions resembling an off-road trail.

The effect on transit users is a big net positive. The effect on bicyclists is a HUGE positive. The effect on pedestrians is a positive. It's important to consider the big picture here.
 
Taking down an overpass doesn't do anything to improve mass transit times. Sure, folks will have a nicer walk to the station.

And I am only limiting my definition of transportation to the time it takes to get around.
 
Taking down an overpass doesn't do anything to improve mass transit times. Sure, folks will have a nicer walk to the station.

And I am only limiting my definition of transportation to the time it takes to get around.

Walking to and from the station is part of mass transit commute time.
 
Walking to and from the station is part of mass transit commute time.

Walking to and from the station is also part of people's perception of a transit commute. A friendlier walk for pedestrians could lead someone to consider taking transit as opposed to driving because accessing the station now will be safer and easier.
 
Walking to and from the station is also part of people's perception of a transit commute. A friendlier walk for pedestrians could lead someone to consider taking transit as opposed to driving because accessing the station now will be safer and easier.

That might be tangibly influenced by more decking-over of the SW Corridor in that vicinity to expand the park. Definitely the FH-to-Ukraine Way segment where the parking lot interrupts the linear greenspace that stretches down Hyde Park Ave. as far as Patten St. That's a little bit of a psychological barrier to have that single block of disconnect so close to the Arboretum.

There's obviously other cover-overs upstream they should be chipping away at in the deep long term, but that block is a particularly underrated net gain if they went ahead and did it.
 
That might be tangibly influenced by more decking-over of the SW Corridor in that vicinity to expand the park. Definitely the FH-to-Ukraine Way segment where the parking lot interrupts the linear greenspace that stretches down Hyde Park Ave. as far as Patten St. That's a little bit of a psychological barrier to have that single block of disconnect so close to the Arboretum.

There's obviously other cover-overs upstream they should be chipping away at in the deep long term, but that block is a particularly underrated net gain if they went ahead and did it.

f line since you seem to have your ear to the ground on these things, is there any plan at any level of govt to deck over any more track, anywhere? i juts dont get why this never comes up on any of the many projects going up along the tracks...
 
f line since you seem to have your ear to the ground on these things, is there any plan at any level of govt to deck over any more track, anywhere? i juts dont get why this never comes up on any of the many projects going up along the tracks...

I don't know. Certainly if all you're doing is putting a park over it the decking doesn't have to be anything that supports much in the way of heavy loads a la the Pike decking. That brings down the price considerably. Just need enough weight support for the layers of dirt deep enough to support plantings. None of the existing SW Corridor cover-overs, both the contiguous section northeast of Mass Ave. or the small intermittent cover-overs to the south have anything in the way of park structures built on top other than the occasional basketball or tennis court.

For the Urkraine Way block it would be so close to the portal it wouldn't need anything in the way of those squat raised ventilation grates present at regular intervals on all other cover-overs >1 block.

Any segments where the cut's retaining walls stay above the level of the NEC catenary towers is fair game for decking if you're imaging anything resembling a contiguous Emerald Necklace type thing eventually getting constructed to downtown to widen out the linear park. That means you can go as far south as roughly Walk Hill St., which is handy for reaching the cemeteries and Arboretum if they reopened the Needham Line ped underpass at Arboretum Rd.

South of there the NEC is in its original pre-SW Corridor cut and not nearly deep enough to do any more decking into Hyde Park...just widening of some overpasses for sidewalks and/or grassy knolls.




North of FH there'd be some topping-off to do of the retaining wall to get up to the level of the current security fence on top of it. That's how all current decking was done. Quick scan looks like *minor* retaining wall topping needed:
-- FH to McBride St.
(existing cover-over to Williams St.)
-- only 100 ft. or so past Williams. Green St. station area it's already tall enough.
(Green St. station OK since current outdoor shelter would come down. Headhouse already on decking.)
-- Gordon St. to existing park decking
(existing decking near New Minton St.)
-- New Minton St. for couple hundred feet.
(Stony Brook station decked)
-- Stony Brook to Atherton St. has a mostly tall wall. Grassy knoll on the Atherton overpass.
-- Atherton to Jackson Sq. station: mostly tall wall.
(Jackson Sq. station decked)
-- Heath St. to Cedar St. needs taller wall on Terrace St. side. Park side is fine.
-- Cedar to Rox Crossing station: Taller wall on Terrace St. side, Orange Line outdoor shelter comes down.
(Rox Crossing headhouse decked)
-- Rox Crossing to Prentiss St.: Terrace St.-side wall only.
(Prentiss to Ruggles St. decked)
(Ruggles station not decked, but probably shouldn't be because of tall structures, busway, diesel trains making stops and idling)
-- Wall already tall from Ruggles to Columbus Parking Garage
(NEC/Orange Line emergency access driveways...cut must remain open)
-- Camden St. to Mass Ave.: Outdoor station shelter would come down.
(Mass Ave. to Back Bay decked)

Back Bay to Albany St. would be part of the Pike decking.



So...if you just start chipping away at it block-by-block the entire thing is eventually coverable as a linear park from BBY all the way to the Arboretum. Plus whatever plaza-style accessibility they do on the Pike air rights to Albany St. You would still need the vent stacks even if Providence Line went electric because Needham, Franklin, and Stoughton will still be diesel. But you don't get much in the way of fumes at any of the other vents because trains are all running at-speed.

The "Second Emerald Necklace" (well...sans water). With connections to the first Emerald Necklace. They should totally strive for that eventually since the price isn't too bad. Not high-priority or anything, but they designed the cut exactly for this purpose.
 
Walking to and from the station is part of mass transit commute time.

Nicer walk doesn't mean a faster walk. Probably biking will be the most notable safety improvement.

The point about losing the Casey overpass is that we need offsetting road transportation improvements including overpasses in some places. I know some of you choo choo train lovers hate anything with a steering wheel, but it is the dominant transportation system for good reason.
 
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Nicer walk doesn't mean a faster walk. Probably biking will be the most notable safety improvement.

The point about losing the Casey overpass is that we need offsetting road transportation improvements including overpasses in some places. I know some of you choo choo train lovers hate anything with a steering wheel, but it is the dominant transportation system for good reason.

What does this statement even mean? Please. Enlighten us as to what magic overpass would've rescued the Casey from its LOS F rating of the last 10+ years? More lanes? It's bookended by 2-lane, no-breakdown feeders into frickin' congested-as-hell rotaries. How does that make anything better other than speeding up the headfirst slam into the brick wall on either side of it with a little stretch of Formula One racetrack looming over the neighborhood?


Fear and loathing is a lousy excuse for expensively preserving a total clusterfuck. The Casey's never worked right in its 60 years of existence. Its exit ramps have never worked right in the 60 years they've been flanking it. Maybe, just maybe, it's time to try something different that clears out some of the more unnecessary induced demand traffic using Route 203 as a shortcut from the SE Expressway to Longwood that treats the suffering neighborhood underneath either like flyover country or their shortcut-from-a-shortcut when the parkway on either side gets borked.

The MDC parkways are such an abomination because they were tarted up to be quasi-expressways in ways they were never originally designed for. LOS F on the Casey all these years is a bug, not a feature.
 
So what do we need to do to raise the fine for blocking the FH upper busway exit to $500 and get someone out there to actually enforce it? The white box and small "DO NOT BLOCK INTERSECTION" "FINE $150" signs just aren't cutting it with the increased volume.

It took a good 15 minutes for the 5-7 buses departing around 5:45 tonight to make it through the intersection because it was blocked every light cycle people in the left lane to turn onto Ukraine Way. I'm assuming people were also blocking the South/New Washington/Washington intersection as well. Simply unacceptable.
 
Like I said Casey was not worth keeping, but I would look to routes 28 and route 9 to pick up some slack now and see where a grade separated interchange or two could do some good. Nothing huge like Casey overpass, but I've seen plenty of nicely done interchanges for city streets that depress one of the roadways and leave the other at grade.
 

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