City Hall Discussion - Redevelopment - Preservation - Relocation

Re: Menino Proposes Selling City Hall

Is it upsetting to anyone that a city councilor doesn't notice a $2 million line item until it's pointed out by a member of the media?

Or am I misunderstanding what happened?
 
Re: Menino Proposes Selling City Hall

Boston Herald - July 9, 2008
Pol floats fishy deal for City Hall
Land swap with aquarium eyed
By Dave Wedge | Wednesday, July 9, 2008 | http://www.bostonherald.com | Local Politics

A dramatic land swap giving Boston a new aquarium, moving City Hall to the waterfront and opening up a prime downtown development site is being pitched by a leading South Boston pol as a ?win-win? Hub makeover.

Under the bold plan detailed to the Herald by state Sen. Jack Hart, a new City Hall would be built on the current aquarium site on Central Wharf. The four-decade-old aquarium would relocate to a new facility on the Southie waterfront. City Hall Plaza would then become Boston?s hottest property open for development.

?The City Hall downtown is abysmal and it?s prime real estate. And (the aquarium) needs a completely new building,? said Hart, a key figure in the recent transformation of the South Boston waterfront. ?It?s an opportunity to build two state-of-the-art facilities. It can be a win-win all around.?

If accepted by Mayor Thomas M. Menino and aquarium officials, Hart?s plan could break an impasse in Menino?s push to relocate City Hall to Southie, a move icily received by residents there.

Menino?s spokeswoman, Dot Joyce, said: ?We haven?t seen Sen. Hart?s proposal. We would welcome more information.?

Aquarium spokesman Tony LaCasse said the popular attraction?s board would need a comprehensive plan before considering a relocation.

?We have not heard anything from either Senator Hart?s office or the mayor?s office. Currently we have no plans to move,? LaCasse said.

Menino has made it a top priority to move city government out of the fortress-like concrete structure and brick expanse of City Hall Plaza to 14 acres of city land on the South Boston waterfront that houses the Bank of America Pavilion.

But that plan has been roundly criticized by Southie leaders and residents who say a new City Hall at that location would be an inconvenience to many citizens and clash with the working port.

For the aquarium, a move to Southie would return the attraction its roots. The existing facility opened in 1969 but the original Boston Aquarium, which was run by the city, was located at City Point from the early 1920s until it closed in the 1950s.

LaCasse said the aging aquarium, which attracts 1.3 million visitors per year, is on solid financial footing and is constantly being improved. This year, the penguin tank was renovated, and there are plans to build a new marine mammal exhibit and upgrade the four-story shark tank that serves as the facility?s centerpiece.

LaCasse also cited the ?immensely expensive? price tag of a new facility, pointing to Atlanta?s new aquarium, which cost $325 million. Another consideration would be that the existing facility has benefitted from downtown foot traffic and public transit.

?For us, Central Wharf is location, location, location,? LaCasse said. ?We are at the heart of Boston?s pedestrian and tourist trade. That?s worked very well for us.?

Menino?s plan calls for a new City Hall on the Southie land along with a permanent indoor/outdoor concert venue. Hart said he, too, favors keeping an entertainment venue at the site.
Article URL: http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/politics/view.bg?articleid=1105846
 
Re: Menino Proposes Selling City Hall

I for one would hate to see the Aquarium moved. They are right, the location that it is at now is perfect.
 
Re: Menino Proposes Selling City Hall

^^ I doubt this will happen for just that reason.
 
Re: Menino Proposes Selling City Hall

Central Wharf is a major attraction for tourists right now, with the Aquarium and the many ferry and tour boats. I'd rather not disrupt something that works.
 
Re: Menino Proposes Selling City Hall

^^ The problem is that the Aquarium itself and the area around it is a mess.

Hopefully, they can fix it up and make it shine again, but it sure would be nice to start from scratch.
 
Re: Menino Proposes Selling City Hall

No government building should be taking up prime waterfront land, the Moakley Courthouse is a travesty and the pols think they can get away with it AGAIN. Politicians don't need water views and it's a waste of potential tax revenue. All public buildings need to be located in the most accessible areas to the public, on land the preferably doesn't have a much better use, and that sure as hell isn't the South Boston Waterfront. Central Wharf should stay the home of the Aquarium.
 
Re: Menino Proposes Selling City Hall

But isn't the need for the Aquarium to expand the main reason it wants to move. There's not much space to build more there.
 
Re: Menino Proposes Selling City Hall

The Aquarium has a never-executed plan to expand further out into the water. Why not revive that?
 
Re: Menino Proposes Selling City Hall

But isn't the need for the Aquarium to expand the main reason it wants to move. There's not much space to build more there.

What about the huge, useless plaza on the Greenway side? Build that out before going over the water.
 
Re: Menino Proposes Selling City Hall

^^ The problem is that the Aquarium itself and the area around it is a mess.

What about the huge, useless plaza on the Greenway side? Build that out before going over the water.

Yeah man, the real problem is they are cut off from the rest of the city because of that nasty Greenway thing.

[you're right about the plaza in front of the Aquarium - it may be the best area for the Aquarium to expand]
 
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Re: Menino Proposes Selling City Hall

What about the huge, useless plaza on the Greenway side? Build that out before going over the water.

It is huge, but I wouldn't say useless. Most days when I walk through it is quite packed, it serves as a queueing area for the aquarium as well as a gathering and organization area for the big groups that visit there. You couldn't just simply put an addition there and have a entrance meeting the sidewalk.... that crowd would flood into the street, the fidelity parklet, the harborwalk, etc. If you think its crazy now, that would be insane
 
Re: Menino Proposes Selling City Hall

Boston Globe - July 11, 2008
Embattled City Hall defenders change strategy

By John C. Drake, Globe Staff | July 11, 2008

The architects and academics who see beauty in Boston City Hall have come to realize they are in a small minority. So they are dropping their rhetoric about the hidden charms of its 1960s brutalist design and changing strategies in their bid to save it.

Their new message: It's conveniently located.

Members of the group Citizens for City Hall, which is opposing Mayor Thomas M. Menino's plan to build a new City Hall on the South Boston waterfront, are collecting stories from people who regularly travel to the building.

They plan to build a case that moving it to South Boston would be a major inconvenience for tens of thousands of city residents.

The group also is looking at ways to calculate the number of trips taken on public transportation to City Hall, located near four subway lines.

"There are plenty of people who are involved who say, 'I don't necessarily love the building, but I'm opposed to having to go to South Boston,' " said Gary Wolf, a Boston architect and member of Citizens for City Hall, who filed a petition with the city's Landmarks Commission to grant the building protected status.

The refocused preservation effort comes as Menino pushes ahead with a plan to study the feasibility of relocating City Hall to South Boston. Separately, state Senator Jack Hart, Democrat of Boston, has floated an alternate idea to move City Hall to the site of the New England Aquarium, an idea that has not gained traction with Menino or aquarium officials.

Menino's administration is determined to pursue the South Boston idea, despite advocates' pleas. The mayor included in this year's budget a $2 million study of the Marine Industrial Park site Menino is eyeing as a possible new home.

"The South Boston waterfront, while today may not have the vast number of subway lines, is a growing neighborhood," said Dorothy Joyce, Menino's spokeswoman. "We are confident it will have ample transportation opportunities when City Hall is up and running."

Opposition to the mayor's proposal has come from several sources. There are those, such as Councilor at Large Michael Flaherty, who say a seat of city government on the South Boston waterfront would not blend with the rapidly developing area's character.

Others, such as former city attorney Herb Gleason, say the problems with the existing City Hall are easily fixed by making it more accessible and energy efficient.

But the most persuasive case may be that the current Government Center location has ample MBTA service, unlike the waterfront.

Councilor Michael Ross, one of several members of the City Council who oppose moving City Hall, said the advocates are smart to shift the focus away from the building's architecture.

"They lose me with that," Ross said. "I don't understand the architectural thing as much. This is all about accessibility to the public."

But to date some of the most passionate defenders of the building are architects like Wolf who point out that City Hall is one of the worlds' most prominent examples of a bygone architectural style.

In addition to making an argument about convenience, they also are shifting strategy by trying to defuse disagreements over its appearance and turning the discussion to historic preservation and its prominence in the community.

Historic preservation got its start as an American movement in Boston in the 19th century, and demolishing a landmark building because it has gone out of style would run counter to that legacy, the argument goes.

"To consider tearing down a world famous building associated with the city for 40 years doesn't really mesh with this notion that Boston is where some of the greatest strides (in historic preservation) have been made," he said.

Citizens for City Hall has asked the Landmarks Commission to designate the structure a historic building, which would offer it protection from demolition but would not prevent city government from moving out.

A commission official said yesterday the petition had been recommended for study, but probably would not be considered by the panel unless a plan to demolish the structure was imminent.

A flier distributed by Citizens for City Hall signals the new approach: "Love it or hate it, City Hall is considered one of the most important buildings of the 20th century and is one of the best known buildings in the world."

John C. Drake can be reached at jdrake@globe.com.
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Re: Menino Proposes Selling City Hall

A commission official said yesterday the petition had been recommended for study, but probably would not be considered by the panel unless a plan to demolish the structure was imminent.
In other words, when it would cause maximum controversy and uproar --plus risk a decision coming too late (which happens routinely in New York's landmarking process).

If City Hall's not a landmark, then what is?
 
Re: Menino Proposes Selling City Hall

That wasteland of a plaza is the real problem. Even if Menino gets his wish and moves city hall to the waterfront, it would be great if they could just re-purpose the existing city-hall. Raze the plaza and redevelop it.
 
Re: Menino Proposes Selling City Hall

Such a thought related to CHP -- might be well neigh intolerable for Pei

First they built a windbreak to allow human use of the wind tunnel of the Green Building at MIT


2nd the West Wing of the MFA is being relegated to near insignificance as the MFA's Contemporary Wing without even that marvelous Pei Non-entrance

Then at long-last the expansion is underway (by another architect) of IM's "outhouse inhouse" -- aka the Weisner Building at MIT

Then there is a proposal to much about nothing at the Christian Science Center

Then there was the now-dead proposal to make almost pedestrian-friendly Cob's windswept virtual tundra of the Hancock

What is it with Pei related designs and the windswept tundra effect anyway?

I'm afraid that if they do finally de-plaza City Hall Plaza -- it might be the camel's-back breaking straw for ol' IM

Westy
 
Re: Menino Proposes Selling City Hall

Government Center would be a great for a 1,000-1,500 ft tower and a museum.
 
Re: Menino Proposes Selling City Hall

Perfect! --the new home of the "Museum of Failed IM Pei Designs and Associated Windswept Tundras in Worldclass Cities and Universities" -- needs a shorter name or a good acronym

Maybe the new museum could borrow a Glass Pyramid from the Louvre or at least a get its own Giant Mappin

Westy
 
Re: Menino Proposes Selling City Hall

I actually ran into Pei on Friday on the street here in NY. I wanted to go talk to him but then I realized I couldn't think of anything nice to say to him so I just snapped a picture on my phone and left.
 
Re: Menino Proposes Selling City Hall

Van you missed the golden opportunity ? for the future just in case you run into him again -- you should always carry with you an MP3 file of howling wind gusting across a windswept tundra

It sort of his signature -- he would appreciate it -- I'm sorry I agree -- it is very hard to think of something nice to say about what he has wrought

Westy

PS: Damn almost forgot about Harbor Towers ? but there the problems are mostly water leaks and such
 

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