Dorchester Bay City (nee Bayside Expo Ctr.) | Columbia Point

[DBM]

Because this region employs 2 architecture firms.

I appreciate how depressing it is a tiny handful of firms--CBT, Elkus Manfredi, etc.--seem to monopolize all of the gaudy, attention-grabbing tower proposals.

But why let that distract us from the underlying reality--that Boston is a hotbed and global mecca for architecture/design?

There's a reason Sasaki decided to move from the boonies of Watertown to the heart of the city. I could list 20 architecture/design firms in DTX alone. Add up whatever architecture/design clusters there must be in Back Bay, North Station, Cambridge--the list must be massive.

And think about how uniquely conducive the Boston ecosystem is to all of the engineering firms that architects must partner with. Add it all together, and it's a much more compelling narrative than the cynical and *intellectually impoverished* hot take that only a handful of firms can flourish here.

(Also remember: big change coming any minute now! )

 

[Highwayguy]

I don't think it's any private entity's responsibility to fix the local roads and subway system.

If the proponent wasn’t proposing underground parking under literally every building (net 3000 new spaces) I would agree with you. Their own analysis predicts the addition of 1500 new peak hour vehicular trips, enough to overwhelm Columbia point even if the roadway network wasn’t already stillborn. Since they are choosing to incentivize vehicular travel by providing those spaces, l think it is completely reasonable for the proponent to pay (more) for mitigation.

Typically, developers pay for the design and construction of mitigation measures, but that $14 million is for design costs too. So that $14 million would net about $11 million in built improvements.

Or put another way, just under three new red line cars. Not trains, cars. Except that $14 million is to be split four ways between the City, DCR, MassDOT (Highway) and MBTA. So assuming an even split the T would get the money to build 80% of a new red line car. How so very generous.

 

[Highwayguy]

Another thing to note is that their congestion analysis doesn’t look as bad as actual operations since the existing network operates at LOS E or F already. If one just glanced at the results, a degradation of one letter grade from an E to an F or holding constant at an F doesn’t look that bad. But just like on a test, there’s a huge difference between receiving an F for a 59% or for a 10%.

One of the central tenants of traffic engineering is that congestion increases exponentially per vehicle added to a facility past critical density. So 1500 vehicles added to a network past critical density is, well a 10% on your midterm.

 

[Blackbird]

If the proponent wasn’t proposing underground parking under literally every building (net 3000 new spaces) I would agree with you. Their own analysis predicts the addition of 1500 new peak hour vehicular trips, enough to overwhelm Columbia point even if the roadway network wasn’t already stillborn. Since they are choosing to incentivize vehicular travel by providing those spaces, l think it is completely reasonable for the proponent to pay (more) for mitigation.

That's a good argument! I'm all for less parking at the site!

When a new IKEA moves in they generally shell out for intersections and traffic mitigations

Source?

 

[Highwayguy]

Source?

Its required per the enviromental impact process. Per DOT's TIA guidelines, DOT may require mitgation measures if,

"Generation of 2,000 or more new ADT by motor vehicles on roadways providing access to a single location or Generation of 1,000 or more new ADT by motor vehicles on roadways providing access to a single location and construction of 150 or more new motor vehicle parking spaces at a single location."

 

[Blackbird]

Its required per the enviromental impact process. Per DOT's TIA guidelines, DOT may require mitgation measures if,

"Generation of 2,000 or more new ADT by motor vehicles on roadways providing access to a single location or Generation of 1,000 or more new ADT by motor vehicles on roadways providing access to a single location and construction of 150 or more new motor vehicle parking spaces at a single location."

Wouldn't DBC check those same boxes?

 

[Highwayguy]

Wouldn't DBC check those same boxes?

And then some. Point l was trying to make is that a decent size market basket going in may be required to pay for roadway improvements. $14 million is way more than what most developers pay; however DBC is so large it still isn’t enough imo.

 

[kingofsheeba]

As recently as September 2021 a BU professor died falling off a dilapidated staircase next to the station because for some reason, he was unable to read a sign that said “stairs are out of order.”

Fixed

 

[Scott]

I didn't say that

 

[kingofsheeba]

I didn't say that

Correct. Hence, why I fixed it for ya.

 

[Boston02124]

How many units were there back then?

 

[Charlie_mta]

Looks like a state prison. ^

 

[Hydrobus]

View attachment 21556View attachment 21557How many units were there back then?

Read a book on Columbia point a long time ago. I believe the original project had about three times as many units as Harbour point, which replaced it. Supposedly they didnt have to evict a lot of tenants because by the time of demolition so many units had become condemned due to lack of maintenance. The book kind of played it off like this was inevitable, but obvs the lack of maintenance was a policy decision. Can get into the politics behind that but maybe thats a hot topic for a different forum. I do think mixed income is probably a better model, although I like the new ones where they make the density higher instead of lower.

 

[Equilibria]

BCDC: https://bpda.app.box.com/s/4k9yrazx51rhnpnlgxcpnu7tdartdtui

 

[HenryAlan]

This project always seems like it's trying very hard to be a cross between the Seaport, Assembly Row, and Cambridge Crossing, and destined to capture the worst elements of each. Also, they really should brand it as Dot Bay City, rather than Dorchester Bay City.

 

[Equilibria]

This project always seems like it's trying very hard to be a cross between the Seaport, Assembly Row, and Cambridge Crossing, and destined to capture the worst elements of each. Also, they really should brand it as Dot Bay City, rather than Dorchester Bay City.

I'm not sure I agree with that... the worst element of Assembly Row is the massive permanent wall of parking garages and at least I don't see that here.

 

[Charlie_mta]

I hate the buzzcut/similar heights of all the buildings in Dorchester Bay City. Some height variability would have made it a bit more authentic and interesting instead of suburban and boring.

 

[HenryAlan]

I'm not sure I agree with that... the worst element of Assembly Row is the massive permanent wall of parking garages and at least I don't see that here.

That's a fair point. In theory, what I suggested they are trying to do could be a great result. And the parking aspect is a good illustration. I just kind of expect them not to pull it off to the full extent of the ideal.

 

[DAVE]

They really have to tweak the surrounding streets to make this field connected. Even with JFK right there, the massive unfriendly streets you have to cross make it feel much further.

 

[DZH22]

I hate the buzzcut/similar heights of all the buildings in Dorchester Bay City. Some height variability would have made it a bit more authentic and interesting instead of suburban and boring.

I really can't tell anything from the latest link. However, in prior ones it's a few floors taller than the seaport and at least 1 building broke 300'. I sure hope that is still the case. For better or worse, the tallest building in a given neighborhood tends to visually define that neighborhood, which is why it always kills me that the tallest buildings get cut so often.