Federal Funds for South Station Expansion

Jesus...they did that over his stringent objections? That's not nice. Now I wonder if this is a really perverse kind of political payback from the Patrick Admin over something petty...like Patrick being nonplussed that Duke publicly lobbied to fill out the last months of Ted Kennedy's term as interim Sen. when the Gov. wanted zero drama over the Mo Cowan nomination.

i.e...."So you want a capstone to your political career that badly, eh? I'll give you a capstone. Be careful what you wish for."
 
Jahvon09 said:
Think again.

The name of the station has been changed. :eek:
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No, it hasn't. There is a plaque on the front entrance underneath the same-as-it-ever-was South Station sign, and it is South Station on every T system map.

B2Gpx9XCYAA6hN_.jpg



Chill out. The short title is never changing. You can't fit "Dukasis Center" on an a 10-character LED destination sign or 3-character Amtrak station ID (their equivalent to 3-character airport ID's) in any way that makes sense. It's always going to be "South Sta." and "BOS". North Station is always going to be "North Sta." and "BON".
 
It was on the news yesterday that the name has been changed to Michael S Dukakis South Station Transportation Center, as the name now appears on the plaque.

It was just named South Station before. :eek:
 
Jahvon09 said:
It was on the news yesterday that the name has been changed to Michael S Dukakis South Station Transportation Center, as the name now appears on the plaque.

It was just named South Station before. :eek:
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Yeah, just like the Charles A. Gallagher Transit Terminal isn't just called Lowell, or the Frank R. Lautenberg Rail Station is totally called that and not Secaucus Junction (or if you're a conductor, Seeeeeee-caucus).


It is, had been, and always will be South Station, no matter what official documents call it.
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
No, it hasn't. There is a plaque on the front entrance underneath the same-as-it-ever-was South Station sign, and it is South Station on every T system map.

B2Gpx9XCYAA6hN_.jpg



Chill out. The short title is never changing. You can't fit "Dukasis Center" on an a 10-character LED destination sign or 3-character Amtrak station ID (their equivalent to 3-character airport ID's) in any way that makes sense. It's always going to be "South Sta." and "BOS". North Station is always going to be "North Sta." and "BON".
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The MBTA is not going to change the name of the station in maps, nor will it do it for station identification on the station ID signs inside the trains. Too long a name, and probably too much money!

But they MAY name it that when the conductor announces that name as the trains are approaching and entering the station. :cool:
 
Jahvon09 said:
The MBTA is not going to change the name of the station in maps, nor will it do it for station identification on the station ID signs inside the trains. Too long a name, and probably too much money!

But they MAY name it that when the conductor announces that name as the trains are approaching and entering the station. :cool:
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NO...IT...WON'T.

You realize all station announcements are electronic now, and the commuter rail ones are already recorded by Frank Whatshisface and being slowly deployed on the new and rebuilt coaches. If they intended to change it, it would've been changed before they started churning out ASA coaches.

And I repeat: you cannot fit a readable abbreviation of Dukakis Center on an Amtrak ticketing code or the smallest electronic destination signs on the T. Amtrak for damn sure isn't going to change it, and the T has very good technical reasons never to either.

And I'll repeat what Dave said...how many other stations on the system have been commemoratively re-named and are still called by their geographic location by frickin' everyone?





To my knowledge there is only one pre-existing stop EVER to get a total re-name after a person: Hersey on the Needham Line. After Henry Hersey, the Needham selectman who successfully led the public fight to prevent the Needham Line from being Arborwayed out of existence during the SW Corridor construction shutdown. It was called Bird's Hill pre-1979, even though that place is no longer in any local vernacular. So the town got the Legislature to re-name it after him because they wouldn't have commuter rail at all if he hadn't led the charge. Guy's also got a locomotive named after him: F40PH #1000, the very first all-new piece of commuter rail equipment the T ever bought, has a commemorative plaque on the side naming it the "Henry D. Hersey -- Mr. Commuter Rail". Some preservation groups are trying to get that one to a museum preserved in T livery since it's being retired for the new engines.

The people-named stations like Anderson RTC were either new infills or geographical re-names, and even the more tortured subway re-namings like JFK/UMass, the disastrous 1980's "Cambridge Center" re-name of Kendall that got changed back after just a couple years, and the umpteen names Hynes has had over the years were all placemarkers not commemorations.



It ain't going to happen here. Calm down.
 
On Thursday, I am flying into the Baltimore Washington Thurgood Marshall International Airport, or is it the Thurgood Marshall International Baltimore Washington Airport? Oh, screw it -- Friendship Airport!
 
BussesAin'tTrains said:
This is Boston. Half the people never stopped calling the Hockey Rink/Basketball Court "The Garden". This will always be South Station.
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Not to forget that even the new official title ends with the words "South Station." this will be like the Bunker Hill Leonard P. Zakim bridge. Nobody will say the full name. It is still South Station from both a practical and even official capacity.
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
NO...IT...WON'T.

You realize all station announcements are electronic now, and the commuter rail ones are already recorded by Frank Whatshisface and being slowly deployed on the new and rebuilt coaches. If they intended to change it, it would've been changed before they started churning out ASA coaches.

And I repeat: you cannot fit a readable abbreviation of Dukakis Center on an Amtrak ticketing code or the smallest electronic destination signs on the T. Amtrak for damn sure isn't going to change it, and the T has very good technical reasons never to either.

And I'll repeat what Dave said...how many other stations on the system have been commemoratively re-named and are still called by their geographic location by frickin' everyone?





To my knowledge there is only one pre-existing stop EVER to get a total re-name after a person: Hersey on the Needham Line. After Henry Hersey, the Needham selectman who successfully led the public fight to prevent the Needham Line from being Arborwayed out of existence during the SW Corridor construction shutdown. It was called Bird's Hill pre-1979, even though that place is no longer in any local vernacular. So the town got the Legislature to re-name it after him because they wouldn't have commuter rail at all if he hadn't led the charge. Guy's also got a locomotive named after him: F40PH #1000, the very first all-new piece of commuter rail equipment the T ever bought, has a commemorative plaque on the side naming it the "Henry D. Hersey -- Mr. Commuter Rail". Some preservation groups are trying to get that one to a museum preserved in T livery since it's being retired for the new engines.

The people-named stations like Anderson RTC were either new infills or geographical re-names, and even the more tortured subway re-namings like JFK/UMass, the disastrous 1980's "Cambridge Center" re-name of Kendall that got changed back after just a couple years, and the umpteen names Hynes has had over the years were all placemarkers not commemorations.



It ain't going to happen here. Calm down.
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Electronic announcements in the newest existing Red Line cars only. As far as the Red Line goes.

The older Red Line cars don't have it. And they're not going to upgrade them with it either, especially when they are looking to replace them with newer more efficient cars. :cool:
 
Jahvon09 said:
Electronic announcements in the newest existing Red Line cars only. As far as the Red Line goes.

The older Red Line cars don't have it. And they're not going to upgrade them with it either, especially when they are looking to replace them with newer more efficient cars. :cool:
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Dude. Go record the conductor saying, "Next Stop Governor Michael S. Dukakis Transportation Center at South Station." :cool:
 
Jahvon09 said:
Electronic announcements in the newest existing Red Line cars only. As far as the Red Line goes.

The older Red Line cars don't have it. And they're not going to upgrade them with it either, especially when they are looking to replace them with newer more efficient cars. :cool:
Click to expand...

No. Commuter rail has ASA now on a slow rollout. They call the stations what the stations have always been called.

There is no reason to invent scenarios in which to get up in arms about this. They are not going to change the name of South Station, commemorative plaque on the building or no commemorative plaque on the building.
 
These popped up a while back. I love alternative 2, but economics might leave us with a choice between 1 and 3.
 
Is 245 Summer really something that's worth saving? I mean, it's an allright building, but if demolished a new concourse could go there (historic location) instead of reaching out over the tracks as proposed. This would save a bunch on elevators, escalators, and stairs, plus the associated ongoing maintenance and pain in the ass of hauling luggage up and down. Over the new concourse, a much taller new building could be built. Since it would be on terra firma instead of over tracks, it could probably be nice and tall too.

Then a standard mid-rise could go over the area where the current tower is proposed, which would have the added benefit of not overwhelming the current south station headhouse.
 
Well, Fidelity just moved in there from their longtime headquarters on Devonshire. I don't expect them to move in the course of this project.
 
davem said:
Is 245 Summer really something that's worth saving
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{Semass confirms my belief that} Fidelity Investments has the whole building now. I don't think you need or want to try to kick them out in the short term, just as North Station has learned to live with the old Spalding rehab building pinching its throat. 20 or 40 years from now these buildings will be fully-depreciated and ready to come down and give their space back to transit use.

In the meantime, I think you want to move the intercity pickup/dropoff demand around the corner to Dot Ave anyway.

That Fidelity doesn't make heavy use of its curbside actually leaves it slack to be picked up by other uses. And they're fully commerical and will respond to market forces when the space really needs to be bought and converted.
 
I love the possibility of air rights on the station, but they'll have to learn how to not create disgusting bunkers for passengers. Back Bay is horrible and poorly lit, North Station (especially the station ends of the platforms) is almost as bad, and the current area under the bus terminal at South Station is pretty unpleasant too. More lighting and a little bit of preventing water leaks from above would go a long way.
 
The EGE said:
I love the possibility of air rights on the station, but they'll have to learn how to not create disgusting bunkers for passengers
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I see that the new HSR "Trapezoid" at SS is left open to the sky in all scenarios (its roof is mostly glass) and that the Air Rights skyscraper, while it'd shade the current glass-box waiting area, won't bury it.

This will be miles ahead of Back Bay (whose problem is mostly that the headhouse is at the smokey end of the trains) and they skimped on North Station because it was an MBTA project with no glamorous Amtrak travel.
 
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