Four Seasons Tower @ CSC | 1 Dalton Street | Back Bay

Re: Christian Science Church Center Renovation/ New Towers

So construction begins this year?

No idea. I don't know how far along they are in design, engineering, procurement, leasing, financing, etc. I only pointed out that you weren't comparing apples to apples.
 
Re: Christian Science Church Center Renovation/ New Towers

If it gets built at all .... my guess is 2015 the earliest.
 
Re: Christian Science Church Center Renovation/ New Towers

Wrong.

Just copy the writer's name and the title of the article into the Google search window and hit enter.

There will be a listing of several links for that same story - - the first one or two may run up against the Globe wall, the third or fourth + in the Google list will get you the full article.

I've been doing it that way for almost a year now. Whenever there is a full article I want to access it, I access it. There is no limit that way.

Not sure about that - searching that way for me usually yields two results linked to the Globe website. When I select the first, it brings me to the article page with title, author name, and the first paragraph, with the rest blocked. The second page typically automatically redirects to the "Member Center." Any other results with this story are not connected to the Globe site but are unrelated sites that may have copied and pasted the article up - never a guarantee that someone has done this with any article. This may be a function of IP address (mine is not in the US), or you may be "wrong," as you say.
 
Re: Christian Science Church Center Renovation/ New Towers

Not sure about that - searching that way for me usually yields two results linked to the Globe website. When I select the first, it brings me to the article page with title, author name, and the first paragraph, with the rest blocked. The second page typically automatically redirects to the "Member Center." Any other results with this story are not connected to the Globe site but are unrelated sites that may have copied and pasted the article up - never a guarantee that someone has done this with any article. This may be a function of IP address (mine is not in the US), or you may be "wrong," as you say.

It's worked for me every time for well over 8 months now. It's not a cut and paste job either. As I mentioned, don't click the first two or three links - - they will give you the experience you seem to be meeting. Go further down the list of relevant author and title links.

Seems to work for czsz too.
 
Re: Christian Science Church Center Renovation/ New Towers

I thought this was moving forward and had all approvals (the towers), but there's an article in the current issue of the Boston Courant with the head "NABB is Receptive to Christian Science Plan." This a quote in the article, by Howard Kessler, NABB chair doesn't sound too positive:

"NABB is always concerned about the potential negative and irreversible effects of building more high towers in or close to the Back Bay"..."Increased wind problems and more hours of heavy shadows on our streets and parks are not 'progress' in our estimation."
 
Re: Christian Science Church Center Renovation/ New Towers

Do they have any power to block it? If it has the necessary approvals then what more is this than whining?
 
Re: Christian Science Church Center Renovation/ New Towers

Its not clear to me that the projects are within NABB boundaries.

The boundaries of the Back Bay, as defined by NABB's Articles of Organization, are:

Charles River on the North
Arlington Street to Park Square on the East
Columbus Avenue to the New York New Haven and Hartford right-of-way (South of Stuart Street and Copley Place), Huntington Avenue, Dalton Street, and the Mass. Turnpike on the South
Charlesgate East on the West.

Charlesgate East ends at Boylston.
 
Re: Christian Science Church Center Renovation/ New Towers

Yeah, but I wonder if NABB could still claim an interest in the project if shadows or wind effects are deemed to impact the Back Bay.
I love that NABB hinders worthy development in the Back Bay but they couldn't block the Shreve, Crump, Lowe destruction.
 
Re: Christian Science Church Center Renovation/ New Towers

Its not clear to me that the projects are within NABB boundaries.

Quote:
The boundaries of the Back Bay, as defined by NABB's Articles of Organization, are:

Charles River on the North
Arlington Street to Park Square on the East
Columbus Avenue to the New York New Haven and Hartford right-of-way (South of Stuart Street and Copley Place), Huntington Avenue, Dalton Street, and the Mass. Turnpike on the South
Charlesgate East on the West.
Charlesgate East ends at Boylston.

Charlesgate East ends at Boylston.

The ambiguity lies in the fact that Huntington and Dalton don't meet. If you were to continue Dalton's trajectory through the Christian Science Center to Huntington it slices it in half. So the CSC is in limbo in their definition. For what it's worth, the BRA puts it squarely in the Back Bay, and (about to compliment the BRA on something, yikes!) their neighborhood map is pretty good in my opinion.

http://www.bostonredevelopmentauthoritynews.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Neighb_2010web.pdf
 
Re: Christian Science Church Center Renovation/ New Towers

I interpreted the NABB southern boundaries as a diagonal, generally aligning with the railroad right-of-way, including the right-of-way, and properties immediately south / southeast of the right-of-way. The Back Bay boundary on the BRA map runs along Mass Ave to Huntington, and that seems clearly beyond the NABB boundary definition. Else, the NABB would include Mass Ave as part of its western boundary and would have presumably raised similar concerns with the Berklee tower.
 
Re: Christian Science Church Center Renovation/ New Towers

I wonder if NABB is more concerned about the tower that isn't being built yet, on the Huntington Ave. side of the plaza. That one requires more careful attention to exterior design than the other two, given that it will be right on the plaza.
 
Re: Christian Science Church Center Renovation/ New Towers

NABB are a kettle of fucks. Without the power of Marty Walz in the legislature I'm not sure they have much weight here. It is outside their jurisdiction so they can comment as any other person or entity can. Much else I don't think so. I don't even recall the shadow study having any impact on the common or Comm Ave (except for maybe the little piece west of Mass Ave in January though I may be mixing that up with the Berklee School's big tower.)
 
Re: Christian Science Church Center Renovation/ New Towers

More form the February 1, 2013 Courant article:

"As long as the design proposal conforms to zoning guidelines set by the city when it approved the master plan, NABB's membership will be receptive to the project, according to Kassler."

I have to look back to see what the city approved. I thought there was some flexibility because the BRA designated this a special zone. I forget the terminology.
 
Re: Christian Science Church Center Renovation/ New Towers

my recollection is that NABB did object to the proposed demolition of the Arlington Building but that the Landmarks Commission (the ultimate authority) did not find the building to be of sufficient historical significance.

Some of the factors working against it were that it wasn't Shreve's original location, and that the building had been extensively altered after its original construction (by being truncated when Arlington Street was extended).

What is the current status of that proposal, by the way?
 
Re: Christian Science Church Center Renovation/ New Towers

my recollection is that NABB did object to the proposed demolition of the Arlington Building but that the Landmarks Commission (the ultimate authority) did not find the building to be of sufficient historical significance.

Some of the factors working against it were that it wasn't Shreve's original location, and that the building had been extensively altered after its original construction (by being truncated when Arlington Street was extended).

What is the current status of that proposal, by the way?
Seems quiescent.

A problem may be the potential effect of shadows on the Tiffany windows in the Arlington St Church, which is on the National Register and a designated Boston Landmark. IIRC, the church raised this concern.
 
Re: Christian Science Church Center Renovation/ New Towers

THE CHRISTIAN Science Plaza now has a developer, and construction cranes will soon follow. Last week’s selection of Cambridge builder Carpenter & Co. as the plaza’s lead redeveloper marks a rare instance when a monumental urban renewal-style property will be dragged into the future by the High Spine, the dense building pattern that saved Boston from urban renewal. The redevelopment is a watershed moment for Boston, but it’s also likely to prove bittersweet. The city desperately needs to duplicate the type of work that will happen at the Christian Science Plaza, but it’s unlikely that will happen for some time to come.

The Christian Science Plaza distills a generation of Boston building into a 15-acre plot. It’s enormous, it’s encased in concrete, and it rose, by design, above the bones of the old, pre-war brick city. The 1960s-era plaza — a long reflecting pool, ringed by modernist office buildings — is a close cousin of the Government Center and West End urban renewal projects. These projects all tried to jump-start an economically listless city by paving under older structures in favor of sprawling concrete campuses.

Large-scale building projects in the urban renewal era favored grand gestures and surprisingly low building densities. If Boston had continued building in this vein, the city today would be desolate, sparsely populated, windswept, and unable to sustain shops and restaurants. It isn’t, because the notion of Boston’s High Spine took hold and supplanted the big urban renewal-style campuses.

The High Spine — the series of towers stretching from the Financial District through the Back Bay — allowed building, without bulldozers. It provided a development output that stood alongside, not in place of, the nearby brownstones. The turn toward this kind of dense, urban-scale growth saved Boston by preserving what worked best about the old town. The High Spine currently terminates at the Christian Science complex’s old administration tower. The new redevelopment program (a 50-story hotel and condominium tower and a 20-story apartment tower Carpenter is building on Belvidere Street, along with a future Huntington Avenue office tower) will draw the spine firmly into the Christian Science plaza. It will bring density to a block that is now a temporary gathering spot, and tie the plaza more closely to the Back Bay and South End, while preserving the pool in some form.

Related
1/23: Two towers planned for Christian Science Plaza

The Christian Science Plaza is unique among its peers. It’s the only one of its generation of 1960s New Boston mega-projects that succeeds in adding to the city. The plaza’s reflecting pool and fountain are gathering places and hubs of activity. They embrace the city around them, and do so with a purpose. The same can’t be said for the plaza’s concrete cousins across town.

Builders threw the same overwhelming ambition that’s on display at the Christian Science Plaza into Boston City Hall, the John F. Kennedy federal building, and the state’s Lindemann-Hurley government service center. Those places, unlike the plaza, actively disperse crowds.

The sprawling Government Center urban renewal zone, which stretches from old Scollay Square into the West End, chased high art at the expense of the urban experience. It’s not just that these buildings span abnormally huge city blocks, or that they’re frequently named among the city’s ugliest structures. Their great crime is the way they hold the city at arm’s length. They create vast oceans of nothingness on blocks that should be among the city’s busiest, since they sit between Beacon Hill and Boston Harbor.

The Christian Science Plaza has none of the flaws of its Government Center relatives. It’s the only one that works as an urban space. Still, it is undergoing redevelopment because the church that owns it wants to strengthen its finances. But at the sites that really need attention, like Boston City Hall, the Lindemann-Hurley complex, and the JFK Building’s low-rise branch, public ownership stands in the way of fixing urban renewal excesses. Bureaucratic inertia trumps the immense effort needed to undo decades-old damage. That leaves the development opportunity to the Christian Science Plaza, the place that needs it least.


http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/...-replicated/QjfYmb4ZGUztgbbgypUozM/story.html
 
Re: Christian Science Church Center Renovation/ New Towers

NABB are a kettle of fucks. Without the power of Marty Walz in the legislature I'm not sure they have much weight here. It is outside their jurisdiction so they can comment as any other person or entity can. Much else I don't think so. I don't even recall the shadow study having any impact on the common or Comm Ave (except for maybe the little piece west of Mass Ave in January though I may be mixing that up with the Berklee School's big tower.)

Without their puppet Walz let's hope they are effectively neutered. Otherwise throw a wall up around old Back Bay and give them the gated community they would so dearly love to have. In return they would be required to shut up forever.
 
Re: Christian Science Church Center Renovation/ New Towers

Something must be moving forward!

Christian Science CAC Meeting #22
Wednesday, June 05, 2013
8:00 am - 10:00 am

Division-Department: Planning and Zoning - BRA
Description: Christian Science Plaza Revitalization Project CAC Meeting #22
Location: Christian Science Publishing House Building, 210 Massachusetts Avenue
Neighborhood: Citywide
Contact: Lauren Shurtleff at (617)918-4353
Email: Lauren.Shurtleff.BRA@cityofboston.gov

http://www.bostonredevelopmentauthority.org/calendar/scheduledet.asp?EventID=3427
 
Re: Christian Science Church Center Renovation/ New Towers

Looks like it! I am going to attend for a little bit prior to 9am. Let me know if anyone else goes.
 

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