Four Seasons Tower @ CSC | 1 Dalton Street | Back Bay

chrisbrat

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I wholeheartedly agree ^^^.

I'm confused why Boston has no apparent recourse when significant (to me, anyway) aspects of proposals that are approved wind up not being delivered -- in MT's case the covered roof and in 1 Dalton's the lit-up Four Seasons logo. FWIW, I like your idea of lighting up the grooves of 1Dalton's mechanical penthouse, but I'm assuming the failure to deliver on the lit-up logo (and MT's roof) would be more actionable (maybe?). Like, I'd suspect there'd be a way to point to the proposals that were green-lit and say, "Hey -- you (MT) promised a roof, and you (1 Dalton) promised an illuminated logo. Get crackin!"
 

stellarfun

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I don't generally mind Boston's dark skyline at night, but the lack of any kind of architectural lighting at the top is really bad... this building really sticks out in the dark because it looks like the top three floors where the mech penthouse is are without power. It looks odd next to the lit up Pru and 111 Huntington next door.
You probably won't be getting architectural lighting at the top, because such lighting interferes with the navigational ability of migrating birds flying at night. Hancock Tower in Chicago would collect as many 1500 dead birds on the sidewalk in the morning before the architectural lighting was shut off. The condo owners don't want birds crashing into their windows, and the hotel doesn't wan t to disturb its guests by their having to step over and around bird carcasses.

 

chrisbrat

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Dimming exterior lighting for two specific chunks of the calendar year is way different from having zero exterior lighting at all: "Thus the city's skyscrapers will defer to nature at least twice a year: by dimming their lights in September and October, during the peak of the fall migratory season, and again in April and May, during the peak of the spring migratory season."
Morevoer, the two neighboring towers that meddlepal referenced -- the Pru and 111 Huntington -- both have exterior lighting that is considerably brighter than a subtle, lit-up Four Seasons logo and I haven't heard or read about flocks of dead birds on the sidewalks beneath those buildings.
 

kmp1284

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Dimming exterior lighting for two specific chunks of the calendar year is way different from having zero exterior lighting at all: "Thus the city's skyscrapers will defer to nature at least twice a year: by dimming their lights in September and October, during the peak of the fall migratory season, and again in April and May, during the peak of the spring migratory season."
Morevoer, the two neighboring towers that meddlepal referenced -- the Pru and 111 Huntington -- both have exterior lighting that is considerably brighter than a subtle, lit-up Four Seasons logo and I haven't heard or read about flocks of dead birds on the sidewalks beneath those buildings.
Putting the bird issue aside it’s a waste of energy, serves no real purpose and it’s one more thing that needs to be serviced regularly and could potentially require costly repairs either at the expense of the hotel or condo owners.
 
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chrisbrat

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it’s one more thing that needs to be serviced regularly and could potentially require costly repairs either at the expense of the hotel or condo owners.
I guess that logic explains why they're choosing to go with plywood instead of glass windows on certain floors. :p
 

kmp1284

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I guess that logic explains why they're choosing to go with plywood instead of glass windows on certain floors. :p
See here for a little primer on the windows they’re using.

https://www.onedalton.com/media/2019/03/archive_6.pdf

Now that you understand the complexity involved do you seriously think that they’re intentionally dragging their feet? Obviously someone, somewhere f’ed up but I’m sure there’s a good reason for this.
 

whighlander

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Putting the bird issue aside it’s a waste of energy, serves no real purpose and it’s one more thing that needs to be serviced regularly and could potentially require costly repairs either at the expense of the hotel or condo owners.
kmp -- the waste of energy and need for servicing are mostly issues from another era
The advent of LED architectural lighting has given service lifetimes of tens of thousands of hours [translating into tens of years] before there is a significant failure.

Similarly the light available from a low wattage fixture is quite considerable. Indeed Phillips Color Kinetics of Burlington has made quite a business out of multicolored and dynamic architectural lighting -- for places around the world.

See for example:
Tour Maine Montparnasse
Paris, France




Tour Maine Montparnasse

  • b2bhc.p54imagegallery.component.title
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  • Photo Credits: Signify
On behalf of the co-owners of the Tour Maine Montparnasse, the lighting designer, Régis Clouzet, imagined a sustainable and evolutionary lighting in partnership with Signify. "With this subtle lighting design, carried out with our partner Vinci Energies Citéos, Signify contributes a new signature to the urban night landscape of Paris," says Benjamin Azoulay, CEO Signify France.

Signify was chosen for its expertise in creating real luminous pictures of light. "Paris, city of light, would equip its highest building with an innovative and sustainable lighting solution" continues Benjamin Azoulay.

The objective of the project is twofold: to create a pleasant atmosphere for the residents and to add to the prestige of the building by making it visible from a distance:

A vision of proximity: the implemented solution consists exclusively of Color Kinetics' iColor Accent luminaires, which are installed inside the building. To avoid any discomfort to the occupants, they have been integrated in a visually aesthetic box. In the daytime, the luminaires are not visible from the inside or the outside of the building.

A distant vision: 58 ColorReach luminaires have been installed on the top floor. The new lighting is thus visible throughout the Parisian region, visible to its 12 million inhabitants. The results go beyond the objectives set by Régis Clouzet, since the complete outline of the tower is visible from more than 8 km (5 miles).
 

chrisbrat

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See here for a little primer on the windows they’re using.

https://www.onedalton.com/media/2019/03/archive_6.pdf

Now that you understand the complexity involved do you seriously think that they’re intentionally dragging their feet? Obviously someone, somewhere f’ed up but I’m sure there’s a good reason for this.
i've already read that -- thanks for sharing the link for those who may not have, though. fully agree that something certainly got messed up and i don't think they "planned" it to be like this. don't know that i'd say there's a "good reason for this." if i were to screw up on such a collosal scale at work, i wouldn't get a pass for it by saying, "well, there's a good reason for it."

all in all, this project went from being one of the most exciting in a long while to a clearly mismanageed end-result and pretty underwhelming, overall.
 

goldenretrievers

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pure speculation, but could it be that rather than a supply chain / manufacturing hold up, the panels weren't properly designed to be installed with all surrounding panels in place and therefor a retrofit/redesign is necessary

(as opposed to initial panel install where there is always a "free" side above and/or to the side as they build their way up)
 

JeffDowntown

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pure speculation, but could it be that rather than a supply chain / manufacturing hold up, the panels weren't properly designed to be installed with all surrounding panels in place and therefor a retrofit/redesign is necessary

(as opposed to initial panel install where there is always a "free" side above and/or to the side as they build their way up)
That seems unlikely. Glass curtain wall panels are typically designed for totally independent installation/removal.

The panel systems had a really complex supply chain. Restarting that has to be a pain, particularly for a relatively small number of panels.
 

whighlander

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i've already read that -- thanks for sharing the link for those who may not have, though. fully agree that something certainly got messed up and i don't think they "planned" it to be like this. don't know that i'd say there's a "good reason for this." if i were to screw up on such a collosal scale at work, i wouldn't get a pass for it by saying, "well, there's a good reason for it."

all in all, this project went from being one of the most exciting in a long while to a clearly mismanageed end-result and pretty underwhelming, overall.
Chrisbrat -- it's a highly sophisticated glass system -- a bit reminiscent of the original John Hancock Tower insulated glass -- ultimately replaced by the current solid panes [after the plywood era]

Looking at the complexity of the glass system*1, curved panes in some of the locations on the building, as well as the very large pieces of glass in some of the locations -- and the fact that the inner-most sheet is only sourced from Europe -- you can see how there might be an issue with availability.



*1
from the pdf linked in the post above:
Glass Unlike Any Other
Floor-to-ceiling custom, triple layer glass façade offers UV filtration for thermal comfort and energy efficiency, provides fully tempered safety, and ensures exterior noise reduction.
The design of the residential and hotel glass in One Dalton is based on a single unit of insulated glass spanning from floor to floor, reaching a height of over 12 feet at the residential floors.
The glass units are also wide, ranging between five and eight feet. Notably, the units are over seven feet in width for the curved glass corners and offer expansive views from the residences.
The combination of the extra-clear and ultra-clear glass results in a neutral gray-green color that transmits a great amount of light into the residences.
Viewed from the interior of the residence, the curved glass corners have reduced reflectance through the application of a Guardian Glass Clarity anti-reflective coating.
From the exterior, the insulated glass is not overly transparent, preserving privacy and maintaining a uniform character of the façade therefore reinforcing the “soft triangle” sculptural form of the tower.
The glass covering One Dalton is unusually thick, which helps with wind resistance and lowers light deflection.
The Argon Gas between the layers acts as a noise suppressor and insulator.
Each insulated glass unit (IGU) has the following composition and characteristics:

OUTERMOST GLASS A 1/4-inch-thick heat strengthened sheet lightly tinted with a Guardian Glass energy performance coating called “Crystal Gray” to reduce glare from the sun and prevent bird strike
SECOND OUTER GLASS is a 1/4-inch-thick extra clear, heat strengthened sheet with a Guardian Glass SunGuard Low-E energy reduction coating specifically chosen for its high transparency combined with its low exterior visible light reflectance
0.06 INCH clear PVB (polyvinyl butyral) lamination interlayer ties the two outer glass panels together 0.5 INCH airspace filled with Argon Gas and framed with a Cromatech Ultra Black Spacer around its perimeter
INNERMOST GLASS is a 3/8-inch-thick ultra clear, fully tempered sheet manufactured only in Europe
 

chrisbrat

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like i posted, i already read/knew all of that.

regardless of the complexity, it still seems excessive to be missing window panels nearly a year after the hotel's opening. however you slice it, this project -- at least the latter stages -- wasn't managed well at all.
 

kmp1284

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like i posted, i already read/knew all of that.

regardless of the complexity, it still seems excessive to be missing window panels nearly a year after the hotel's opening. however you slice it, this project -- at least the latter stages -- wasn't managed well at all.
They probably never should have opened when they did. It’s still very much an active construction site inside and out beyond just what we see here with the plywood panels.

Not sure if there’s any interest in views or interiors but here’s a rental listing for condo unit 5202

 

Gunner02

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I think the point here is that there are countless contingencies on a billion dollar project to avoid botches such as this one. We understand the complexities of the windows and understanding those complexities were a fascinating part to read and learn about during development and construction. But this is a ridiculous error regardless of the how amazing the windows are because the lack of proper contingency(s) or failure to follow***, has resulted in this being a bit of joke.

Further point being is plywood the best resource for patching this idiotic issue.
 

stellarfun

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Lights Out Boston
In partnership with the City of Boston and leading building owners and managers, Mass Audubon is working to turn off Boston’s architectural and window lighting at night, saving energy, money, and the lives of migratory birds that can become fatally disoriented by artificial lights.

Participating buildings commit to dimming or turning off all window lighting and external lighting (including architectural and atrium lighting) from 11pm to 5am during bird migration periods (March 1 to June 1 and again from August 15 to October 31).

According to the specs, the Four Seasons glass is designed to minimize bird strike, the UV coating makes the glass visible to birds as a solid object, though humans see it as transparent.


As the specs specifically note, the glass was designed to reduce the risk of bird strike.
 

Vivanna

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They probably never should have opened when they did. It’s still very much an active construction site inside and out beyond just what we see here with the plywood panels.

Not sure if there’s any interest in views or interiors but here’s a rental listing for condo unit 5202

Just my 2 cents but that unit, kitchen and bath especially, does not look like a $9-10M luxury home!
 

stellarfun

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Just my 2 cents but that unit, kitchen and bath especially, does not look like a $9-10M luxury home!
I remember having a post-construction tour of a new high end condo in Washington, and I remarked to one of the construction managers that I thought the kitchen looked small (I didn't say cheap, but the appliances were not high end). And he explained, 'these people don't cook at home'.

The kitchen in the home of the late Katherine Graham (publisher / owner of the Washington Post) was set up as a catering kitchen, i. e., a long, rectangular room with a station for salads, a station for the main course, a station for dessert, etc. etc.
 

citydweller

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I remember having a post-construction tour of a new high end condo in Washington, and I remarked to one of the construction managers that I thought the kitchen looked small (I didn't say cheap, but the appliances were not high end). And he explained, 'these people don't cook at home'.
Interesting insight, I wouldn't have thought of that (said by someone who clips coupons). Perhaps these luxury condos should be stocked with a chef / butler.
 

JeffDowntown

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Perhaps these luxury condos should be stocked with a chef / butler.
Effectively they are -- as in room service and catering from the hotel kitchen and staff.

That is part of the draw of these hotel/condo combinations, luxury hotel services throughout the building.
 

JeffDowntown

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I think the point here is that there are countless contingencies on a billion dollar project to avoid botches such as this one. We understand the complexities of the windows and understanding those complexities were a fascinating part to read and learn about during development and construction. But this is a ridiculous error regardless of the how amazing the windows are because the lack of proper contingency(s) or failure to follow***, has resulted in this being a bit of joke.

Further point being is plywood the best resource for patching this idiotic issue.
Thie delay certainly does not look good.

I suspect there is an argument underway about who is paying for the replacement panels (much more costly in small quantity, plus installation), with lots of finger pointing among all the involved parties.
Were they broken on-site by mishandling?
Were they broken in transit due to mishandling?
Was there a manufacturing or design flaw, caused by sub a, or sub b, or sub c, or sub d...?

Probably the only winners will be the lawyers.
 

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