Franklin Park - White Stadium Renovation

Kinopio said:
There is so many dumb aspects of this plan. The insane cost. The city giving control to a private company. Building two stadiums in the area at the same time for what is a niche sport in America. Cutting down dozens of trees. Bringing tons of noise into the park and neighborhood. Expecting all the suburbanites will take shuttle buses. Assuming the team will be around for the long term to keep up their financial commitments like stadium upkeep when every other women’s soccer league has quickly folded.

Between this, the possible Shattuck hospital expansion, the ridiculous amount of land taken up by the golf course, stupid Circuit Drive cutting the park in half, and the zoo there will be no more park space in the park.
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Shhhhh……but it’s Michelle Wu ‘thinking big’ 😂
 
Kinopio said:
There is so many dumb aspects of this plan. The insane cost. The city giving control to a private company. Building two stadiums in the area at the same time for what is a niche sport in America. Cutting down dozens of trees. Bringing tons of noise into the park and neighborhood. Expecting all the suburbanites will take shuttle buses. Assuming the team will be around for the long term to keep up their financial commitments like stadium upkeep when every other women’s soccer league has quickly folded.

Between this, the possible Shattuck hospital expansion, the ridiculous amount of land taken up by the golf course, stupid Circuit Drive cutting the park in half, and the zoo there will be no more park space in the park.
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Ive come around to the stadium plan. I'd rather see the city tear down the stadium altogether and revert back to the wild but I think this will be a good thing in the end. They absolutely should get rid of Shattuck, though, and if not 100%, as much of it as possible. Ditto the golf course.
 
If the deal falls through, the reality is that the stadium is never going to be renovated -- certainly not for just $30 million. It's going to continue to degrade for another generation and then be bulldozed. I would be probably fine with it ultimately being bulldozed! I would prefer the park revert to Olmsted's original design, and for as much as people want to call soccer a "niche sport" in this thread, a hell of a lot more kids around Boston play soccer than football, so I'm not sure we need the stadium at all*. But don't kid yourself into thinking that Flynn's trying to avoid a boondoggle or save a public school amenity from being used by a private entity. All he's doing is preserving the status quo, with that status quo inevitably leading to dilapidation.


(*This is obviously a conversation for another day, but based on both all available metrics and my own anecdotal observations of the sports jerseys I see worn at elementary school pickup every day, I would be shocked if soccer isn't easily the second-most popular sport in America in 20 years, or at least in the northeast.)
 
^^^

Almost definitely. Though it might look bleak for the moment, Pawtucket was lucky to pawn that glorified little league team off on Worcester and get a soccer team instead.
 
That article was written by a guy based in Boston yet there is only one small paragraph near the end about the costs suddenly doubling. I support the concept, but the sticker shock is real and this may be only the beginning
 
Scott said:
That article was written by a guy based in Boston yet there is only one small paragraph near the end about the costs suddenly doubling. I support the concept, but the sticker shock is real and this may be only the beginning
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I think there is a lot of confusion about why the cost went up, and too many are assuming it's some sort of boondoggle as a result. But the budget for renovating one half of the stadium didn't substantially change. What did change is the scope for the project, which now includes several additional features outside the stadium itself which were identified as other needs through community input. There might be an issue with how to sell that, but it's not $92 million to buy what was supposed to cost $50 million. It's $50 million, plus $42 million to buy some other upgrades.
 
HenryAlan said:
I think there is a lot of confusion about why the cost went up, and too many are assuming it's some sort of boondoggle as a result. But the budget for renovating one half of the stadium didn't substantially change. What did change is the scope for the project, which now includes several additional features outside the stadium itself which were identified as other needs through community input. There might be an issue with how to sell that, but it's not $92 million to buy what was supposed to cost $50 million. It's $50 million, plus $42 million to buy some other upgrades.
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Sorry if I just kept missing this, but what specifically are the changes made due to community input?

I still think $91M sounds fine for fixing up the park, building new sports facilities for students, and creating a public events space. But the jump in price really isn't good. If the community process turned up serious deficiencies in the original proposal, that sounds like bad planning from the city. If the city just had to say "yes" to every community request, that's a disastrous way for community input to work.
 
ritchiew said:
If the city just had to say "yes" to every community request, that's a disastrous way for community input to work.
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I don't know if this is what happened, but in general, and especially considering the unquantified costs of delay, I think it may be sadly cheaper most of the time to just say yes to everything up front than it is to open oneself up to lawsuits, frivolous reviews, etc.
 
HenryAlan said:
I think there is a lot of confusion about why the cost went up, and too many are assuming it's some sort of boondoggle as a result. But the budget for renovating one half of the stadium didn't substantially change. What did change is the scope for the project, which now includes several additional features outside the stadium itself which were identified as other needs through community input. There might be an issue with how to sell that, but it's not $92 million to buy what was supposed to cost $50 million. It's $50 million, plus $42 million to buy some other upgrades.
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Are you sure there are $42M in add-ons? There is confusion because a full accounting is not available to my knowledge. Every penny this goes up without an equal community benefit makes this less of a good deal for the city
 
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I've been to most of the community meetings and haven't been sure what community-driven feedback caused $42 million extra in costs. The same convo is happening on NWSL reddit and a poster gave this response which I think is relevant.

"There were definitely advances in the drainage plan, the improved smart lighting plan, a very comprehensive tree canopy plan, the stands being temporary on the ends, expansion of the track a bit, the stadium canopy changing for sight-lines. I vaguely remember them mentioning that they were forced to slightly move one of the walls as a result of some of the changes the school wanted related to the track. Some is out of their control (like construction companies working the new proposed tariffs into their contracts, and a premium $ to be paid for what is now winter construction). Add to all of that... it is now a carbon net zero facility, which is crazy good. I don't remember that fact being mentioned until quite recently. I have no doubt the neighbors pushed the city to make that promise, but that stuff can really inflate a proposal."
 
Scott said:
Are you sure there are $42M in add-ons? There is confusion because a full accounting is not available to my knowledge. Every penny this goes up without an equal community benefit makes this less of a good deal for the city
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No, I'm not 100% sure. There has definitely been a communication problem, but I saw some information posted by Mayor Wu on BlueSky that implies there are add-ons that ballooned the cost. The bolded portion is what I believe was the original scope.
City’s estimated costs: said:
  • $10M grass turf 8-lane track etc
  • $50M East Grandstand, BPS locker rooms, community kitchen & event space
  • $20M BPS athletics offices, strength/conditioning, sports medicine, coaching
  • $10M park landscaping, utilities, trees, pathway & lighting upgrades from FP Action Plan
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Link to the BlueSky Thread.
 
HenryAlan said:
No, I'm not 100% sure. There has definitely been a communication problem, but I saw some information posted by Mayor Wu on BlueSky that implies there are add-ons that ballooned the cost. The bolded portion is what I believe was the original scope.

Link to the BlueSky Thread.
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I’m confused, I thought the whole point of this project was that the sports organization was going to pay for the renovation?
 
FK4 said:
I’m confused, I thought the whole point of this project was that the sports organization was going to pay for the renovation?
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They are paying for half of it, and in return get to use it about 25 times a year. They will also be paying for maintenance as part of their lease terms. It's a good deal for the city, because it gets a complete renovation for half the price, without giving up too much field time for BPS athletes.
 
HenryAlan said:
They are paying for half of it, and in return get to use it about 25 times a year. They will also be paying for maintenance as part of their lease terms. It's a good deal for the city, because it gets a complete renovation for half the price, without giving up too much field time for BPS athletes.
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Thank you for succinctly summarizing this entire situation honestly. Everyone against this project should sit the fuck down.
 
chrisbrat said:
Thank you for succinctly summarizing this entire situation honestly. Everyone against this project should sit the fuck down.
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Thanks for the laughs!

Last time I checked, this website forum is for people of all opinions and outlooks to contribute their thoughts on projects. If you don’t agree with someone else’s position, fine. But it’s not your call to “smote” those here with different opinions. I may disagree with Henry Alan’s position on this project, but I respect (and learn from) his posts on it.

Unless you’re an adolescent or an ‘incel’ during the family holiday season, it’s just too damn funny to shake your fists at the clouds and proclaim “everyone against this project should sit the fuck down”.
 
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BronsonShore said:
(*This is obviously a conversation for another day, but based on both all available metrics and my own anecdotal observations of the sports jerseys I see worn at elementary school pickup every day, I would be shocked if soccer isn't easily the second-most popular sport in America in 20 years, or at least in the northeast.)
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This has been true for the last 20 years, and yet it has topped out at just under hockey. That's not niche, but it's about even with AAA baseball, and when you consider that baseball has way more games per season...
 
Equilibria said:
This has been true for the last 20 years, and yet it has topped out at just under hockey. That's not niche, but it's about even with AAA baseball, and when you consider that baseball has way more games per season...
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We're only about 30-40 years removed from a time when the US Mens National Team was made up of part-time players and the only soccer that was on TV at all in the US was broadcast in Spanish. Today, an American is the best player on one of the biggest clubs in the world and NBC pays the Premier league $450 million per season to broadcast the games (while CBS pays $250 million for the Champions League, on top of owning the rights to Serie A, while ESPN owns the rights to La Liga, the Bundesliga, and even the English Championship, which is kind of the equivalent of AAA baseball). There isn't a single metric that doesn't point to soccer continuing to explode in the US. Your AAA baseball comparison is garbage.

(Before you respond, please look google "AAA baseball TV rights and ratings" and let me know what you find.)
 
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