General Electric HQ (Necco Buildings Reno) | 5 Necco Street | Fort Point

[JumboBuc]

Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

Just read about GE's request for a helipad. GE can go eat poop. So can Baker. How about using the public money on actual public good?

I've said this in other threads where this is being discussed, but a helipad is just a glorified parking lot or roof deck. They're more an issue of permitting than construction. Literally every tower in LA has one (they were required by law until recently) but Boston only has them at MGH, The Brigham, Logan, the Globe, and WBZ. Not that we want to emulate LA, but the prevalence of helipads there shows that they're really not a big deal.

There is no public helipad in Boston, so setting one up that GE and other businesses can use does strike me as a pretty good use of resources for the public good.

 

[mdd]

Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

The airport is right across from Ft. Point. Are they that important that they can't take a 10 minute car ride from over there?

 

[Mongo]

Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

The airport is right across from Ft. Point. Are they that important that they can't take a 10 minute car ride from over there?

10 minutes in good traffic. Not if you are fighting the afternoon rush out through the tunnel. It's more than likely they will helo to Hanscom and fly out from there.

They could just build one on top of whatever building they build, but if we have a public one it can have all sorts of uses. Imagine if the president could visit and they don't have to shut down half the highways in the city.

 

[JumboBuc]

Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

The airport is right across from Ft. Point. Are they that important that they can't take a 10 minute car ride from over there?

I imagine the one at Logan is trickier from an air-traffic perspective, too.

 

[KentXie]

Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

All I'm saying is that using the same money being used for the helipad elsewhere, say the MBTA (provided they don't squander it) would benefit more people. This is more about priorities than anything.

 

[stick n move]

Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

Helipads can be as cheap as painting an h on the ground in a parking lot theres a few examples in metro west.

 

[JeffDowntown]

Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

Helipads can be as cheap as painting an h on the ground in a parking lot theres a few examples in metro west.

Example BU Medical Center Helipad:

This one obviously cost a fortune (not)!

 

[Arlington]

Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

If the State immediately spring for a $60m pedestrian bridge (demo + a wider "north point" bridge) and donated a $10m parcel for a helipad that might cost $1m (asphalt apron around a concrete "bullseye" or helicopter+parked vehicle concrete pad, such as shown above), that's $70m well spent.

Per-new-user the ped bridge is a bargain and a huge win for the "regular workers" who'd use it.

Per-new-user, the helipad is an outrage for Sanders/Warren to rail at, but $10m still is small as corporate welfare goes, and that value (which I totally made up) really depends on what alternate use--piling snow?-- the lot under the pad would have had (because the infrastructure of a helipad is sooocheap)

GE will not be the last "world class" tennant attracted to Boston by a convenient helipad.

 

[citylover94]

Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

Why is everyone assuming the helipad will be at ground level? Personally I had assumed it would be a rooftop helipad that would be available for public use most likely on the roof of the building GE eventually builds.

 

[datadyne007]

Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

GE will not be the last "world class" tennant attracted to Boston by a convenient helipad.

The GE deal leaves me questioning if we really want these mega corporations HQ'ing here if it costs us hundreds of millions of dollars in bribes for each company.

TransitMatters put best in a tweet today:

We are very perplexed & concerned about @MassGov subsidy to @generalelectric to move to @CityOfBoston while we force @MBTA to cut late nite

As well as MBTAInfo:

The GE deal makes it clear: it's not that the state *can't* fund the T adequately, it *chooses* not to.

 

[Suffolk 83]

Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

I agree data that I was initially more excited about the GE deal before I heard about the tax breaks and how they are one of the biggest cheaters on taxes... but overall wont the tax base still go up? Its not like the city is LOSING money on the deal

(not including the bridge revamp which needed to be done anyway IMO)

 

[Shepard]

Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

I think the MBTAInfo tweet is accurate. But I still wouldn't rail against the GE deals. It's not either/or. If you want to set up a duality, it's more about benefits to private vehicles vs. benefits to transit riders; gas tax and tolls vs fare hikes; subsidized street parking vs. farebox recovery rates, etc. In other words, Data: I think there is certainly a scale that needs to be rebalanced. But all this stuff with GE doesn't belong on a side of the scale in this debate. It's a good thing that GE is moving here. Good for a lot of reasons. It doesn't make the transit situation any more or less egregious than it already is.

 

[JumboBuc]

Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

GE doesn't need any State assistance building a helipad. To them, construction would basically be free. What they need State assistance for is permitting a helipad. The approval process is strictly political, not financial, and that's where it matters that they have a document signed by Walsh and Baker that pledges support.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

Example BU Medical Center Helipad:

This one obviously cost a fortune (not)!

Biiiig difference between hospital helipad and a commercial passenger helipad. The hospital helipad has to be at the hospital, so all kinds of wiggle room is given on regulations, location, and leeway within the Logan flight paths. They cram it wherever they can cram it and live with the associated risks, because it's already life or death for the passengers and crew.

A commercial helipad's got to have a lot more stringent fire suppression systems and other safety features, gets way more FAA oversight on flight paths, etc. And if it's for corporate execs of course there's going to be a terminal with amenities. Cost is going to be considerably higher.


Now...why the hell there's so much public funding being lavished on this one for very private use catered to one (or very few) clients when there's been a long-stalled effort by Massport, MassDOT Aeronautics, and several advocacy groups to get a public heliport established in Boston is a far better question to be asking about where that money's being spent. There's been longstanding interest from Air Pegasus, which operates the U.S.'s busiest heliport in NYC, to invest in a Boston one handling a substantial number of commercial flights. The BRA had its site selection narrowed around the Seaport for that about 8 years ago before a Southie NIMBY mob...riled up by then- Council Prez. Mike Flaherty...knifed it and got the BRA to back off.

So now we're going to burn that site for the gated-community 1%'er version of what was originally supposed to be a public asset? I wonder how much Southie pols are going to say boo about that this time.



^^^There's something to be cynical about. Nobody wanted to spend public money when that was going to be a large-scale public-use asset, but now..."Please! Take our money, sages of the Boardroom!"

 

[FenwayResident]

Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

The only way I see this costing a material amount of money is if they decide to do something similar to the East River Heliport in downtown Manhattan:

Given the abundance of parking lots in the area this would be a huge, unnecessary cost, but it could remove some obstacles involving land and air rights.

 

[stellarfun]

Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

Why is everyone assuming the helipad will be at ground level? Personally I had assumed it would be a rooftop helipad that would be available for public use most likely on the roof of the building GE eventually builds.

Why would GE want to open its building to anyone who wants to get in / get off a helicopter, regardless of the hour?

Why would GE want to pay the insurance premiums, and/or install / maintain life safety equipment, for having a helipad on its roof that can be used by anyone?

Why would GE want its helicopter to have to leave its rooftop helipad because a General Dynamics helicopters wants to land?

 

[FenwayResident]

Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

Why would GE want to open its building to anyone who wants to get in / get off a helicopter, regardless of the hour?

It would be like how most hotel roof bars operate. There would be a dedicated entrance for non-employees which would have its own check in and security then lead directly to the top floor.

Why would GE want to pay the insurance premiums, and/or install / maintain life safety equipment, for having a helipad on its roof that can be used by anyone?

Presumably there would be landing fees to pay for this sort of stuff (and security as above). I don't think it would be out of pocket for GE.

Why would GE want its helicopter to have to leave its rooftop helipad because a General Dynamics helicopters wants to land?

I don't think helicopters get parked on helipads (unless they're specifically designed to accommodate that).

 

[JeffDowntown]

Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

Just FYI, this Boston Public Heliport idea is not really new. In 1986 a public / private heliport was built in South Boston, on land that is now occupied by the BCEC! In 2008 Michael Flaherty (Boston City Council) proposed recreating the Seaport area heliport on land that has been proposed for the GE HQ! The idea is supported by the Massachusetts Aeronautics Commission and the New England Helicopter Council (who has been proposing a heliport near South Station in the I-93/I-90 interchange dead zone).

Even before GE, the estimated usage was more than 2000 takeoffs/landings per year.

So this is not just about GE, but GE is the catalyst to make it happen.

 

[JumboBuc]

Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

Why would GE want to open its building to anyone who wants to get in / get off a helicopter, regardless of the hour?

Why would GE want to pay the insurance premiums, and/or install / maintain life safety equipment, for having a helipad on its roof that can be used by anyone?

Why would GE want its helicopter to have to leave its rooftop helipad because a General Dynamics helicopters wants to land?

Because, from the signed agreement between the State, City, and GE:

The agreement clearly calls for "a new public helipad in Boston". There's another earlier reference to "public helicopter landing facilities" as well.

Note that this agreement does not say these things will be provided to GE free of charge. All the agreement offers is "access" and "coordination... in facilitating" while stating that "The Company [GE] will be responsible for negotiating lease rates and other commercial terms...". In other words, the State and City are promising to help GE get this stuff set up, not promising to pay for it.

GE will want the helipad on its roof to be most convenient for them. Wherever it is, however, it'll have to be public if the State and City are to help.

 

[Semass]

Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

Though public, I don't think I heard anyone say that landing a helicopter would be free. Presumably it would have usage/landing fees like other facilities. It could, theoretically, make some of its cost back over time, especially if the 2K landings noted by Jeff come to pass.