General MBTA Topics (Multi Modal, Budget, MassDOT)
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DominusNovus
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Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos
Waitaminute. 'Experiment'? I'm not that old that saying that I remember when you used to be able to take the Green line for free on street level automatically dates me, am I?
Waitaminute. 'Experiment'? I'm not that old that saying that I remember when you used to be able to take the Green line for free on street level automatically dates me, am I?
F-Line to Dudley
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Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos
Clearly the solution to all our problems is cutting weekend service past Brigham Circle.
It...can't...fail!
Clearly the solution to all our problems is cutting weekend service past Brigham Circle.
It...can't...fail!
gooseberry
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Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos
How about collecting fare on the fucking silver line in the seaport for a start?
How about collecting fare on the fucking silver line in the seaport for a start?
Ron Newman
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Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos
Do you mean at Silver Line Way? Courthouse and World Trade Center have fare gates just like any other subway station.
Do you mean at Silver Line Way? Courthouse and World Trade Center have fare gates just like any other subway station.
fattony
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Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos
I don't see anything wrong with this fare hike. The last hike was supposed to come with a ridership reduction that never materialized. That is a strong indicator that fares are still lower than the market will bear. The extra $1.20 per roundtrip is equal to 9 minutes of minimum wage labor. This is not an unbearable financial burden on the poor and elderly. The T has been too cheap for too long and they are broke (partially) because of it.
I'd like to see regular fare increases of a few cents every quarter or 6 months so that we don't have to read ludicrous sob stories in the op-eds every time the T takes a reality check.
I don't see anything wrong with this fare hike. The last hike was supposed to come with a ridership reduction that never materialized. That is a strong indicator that fares are still lower than the market will bear. The extra $1.20 per roundtrip is equal to 9 minutes of minimum wage labor. This is not an unbearable financial burden on the poor and elderly. The T has been too cheap for too long and they are broke (partially) because of it.
I'd like to see regular fare increases of a few cents every quarter or 6 months so that we don't have to read ludicrous sob stories in the op-eds every time the T takes a reality check.
HenryAlan
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Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos
Lately it seems we are in fact getting regular fare increases, but by more than a few cents. I don't mind the idea of paying a bit more, but I am very troubled by the proposed service cuts. No weekend bus service? Are they seriously thinking that can happen?
Lately it seems we are in fact getting regular fare increases, but by more than a few cents. I don't mind the idea of paying a bit more, but I am very troubled by the proposed service cuts. No weekend bus service? Are they seriously thinking that can happen?
BostonUrbEx
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Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos
The MBTA, MassDOT, and the State said we would be in this position by this time after last years resolution. Now they announce that the time has arrived to start talking again and everyone is just downright shocked! Shocked I tell you! Come on, get real. Last year's raise was nothing. This year's raise better be worth the argument. And they better round it to 2.50 or 3 -- none of this crap that will leave granny searching for any more dimes than she already does.
The MBTA, MassDOT, and the State said we would be in this position by this time after last years resolution. Now they announce that the time has arrived to start talking again and everyone is just downright shocked! Shocked I tell you! Come on, get real. Last year's raise was nothing. This year's raise better be worth the argument. And they better round it to 2.50 or 3 -- none of this crap that will leave granny searching for any more dimes than she already does.
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Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos
Couldn't have said it better myself. I come here to write a post like this and you did it for me. Thanks. =)
The T has been too cheap for too long. Instead of being eased into prices in this new range, they will have to happen instantly and it will seem much more drastic.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I come here to write a post like this and you did it for me. Thanks. =)
The T has been too cheap for too long. Instead of being eased into prices in this new range, they will have to happen instantly and it will seem much more drastic.
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fattony
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Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos
Don't get me started. Federal gas tax hasn't moved in 20 years...
Don't get me started. Federal gas tax hasn't moved in 20 years...
fattony
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Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos
How do you know $10 isn't the best price for an MBTA subway ride? Raising to $2 had zero ridership impact. That alone means they should try raising it again (and again, and again...) until there is some evidence of reduced ridership. If the demand exists and people are willing to pay, then why should the system remain financially crippled?
Public transit is vastly less expensive than owning and operating a car. Between gas, parking, insurance, maintenance, and depreciation - I wouldn't be surprised if $10 subway fare is still cheaper for most people for most trips.
How do you know $10 isn't the best price for an MBTA subway ride? Raising to $2 had zero ridership impact. That alone means they should try raising it again (and again, and again...) until there is some evidence of reduced ridership. If the demand exists and people are willing to pay, then why should the system remain financially crippled?
Public transit is vastly less expensive than owning and operating a car. Between gas, parking, insurance, maintenance, and depreciation - I wouldn't be surprised if $10 subway fare is still cheaper for most people for most trips.
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Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos
Precisely, but once the fare starts to exceed $4 and near $5 is when the T needs to rethink pre-payment and switch to POP (2 hr passes, etc).
Precisely, but once the fare starts to exceed $4 and near $5 is when the T needs to rethink pre-payment and switch to POP (2 hr passes, etc).
Ron Newman
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Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos
No, if you want to encourage urbanism (and isn't that why we are here?), T fares should be as low as possible, even if that means having them subsidized by suburban sprawl dwellers. Not to mention the environmental benefits....
No, if you want to encourage urbanism (and isn't that why we are here?), T fares should be as low as possible, even if that means having them subsidized by suburban sprawl dwellers. Not to mention the environmental benefits....
fattony
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Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos
I'm not suggesting removing the existing subsidies or not pursuing more subsidies in the future - especially from the suburbanites who indirectly benefit from an effective transit system.
I have no problem with fares as low as possible, but there is no added benefit from fares lower than necessary to achieve desirable outcomes. All that leaving money on the table accomplishes is a reduced level of service for all riders. With the MBTA going broke, barring Beacon Hill intervention the current fare is too low to maintain current service (which is somewhat lackluster even now). Something has to give.
Public transit is far from a simple supply/demand market, but macro econ 101 can still nudge us in the right directions to provide some semblance of efficiency.
I'm not suggesting removing the existing subsidies or not pursuing more subsidies in the future - especially from the suburbanites who indirectly benefit from an effective transit system.
I have no problem with fares as low as possible, but there is no added benefit from fares lower than necessary to achieve desirable outcomes. All that leaving money on the table accomplishes is a reduced level of service for all riders. With the MBTA going broke, barring Beacon Hill intervention the current fare is too low to maintain current service (which is somewhat lackluster even now). Something has to give.
Public transit is far from a simple supply/demand market, but macro econ 101 can still nudge us in the right directions to provide some semblance of efficiency.
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commuter guy
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Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos
you have to remember most of the working population in boston lives in the suburbs. To a city dweller, an increase for subway may or may not seem to amount to much but for the typical suburban commuter a 33% increase is significant. Right now, it costs $17.00 a day to take the Commuter rail from my local station right off route 128 into town. $6.75 each way plus $3.50 for parking. Other parking lots cost more that $3.50. That's a good chunk of change to commute a mere 12 or so miles into town, don't you think? I know plently of people who ran the numbers and abandoned commuter rail over the past few years. They now just buy monthly parking downtown or in the Fort Point area.
From an urban planning and ecological perspective, mass transit should offer a significant financial incentive versus driving a car into downtown Boston. Commuters from the suburbs already own the car for running errands and living life outside the city so transit use needs to be significantly incentivized.
you have to remember most of the working population in boston lives in the suburbs. To a city dweller, an increase for subway may or may not seem to amount to much but for the typical suburban commuter a 33% increase is significant. Right now, it costs $17.00 a day to take the Commuter rail from my local station right off route 128 into town. $6.75 each way plus $3.50 for parking. Other parking lots cost more that $3.50. That's a good chunk of change to commute a mere 12 or so miles into town, don't you think? I know plently of people who ran the numbers and abandoned commuter rail over the past few years. They now just buy monthly parking downtown or in the Fort Point area.
From an urban planning and ecological perspective, mass transit should offer a significant financial incentive versus driving a car into downtown Boston. Commuters from the suburbs already own the car for running errands and living life outside the city so transit use needs to be significantly incentivized.
fattony
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Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos
Anecdotal. The official numbers say otherwise.
Anecdotal. The official numbers say otherwise.
commuter guy
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Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos
I don't know official CR ridership #'s. I know the press is reporting overall T ridership overall is higher. However, I certainly know many who have switched away from the commuter rail. My point being, even assuming CR ridership is up, it doesn't mean that the T is not losing a lot of former or potential riders.
For example, new subdivisions are constantly being built on the outer fringes of suburbia which should result in new ridership and a better job market with more commuters can often mask the fact that some existing riders are leaving transit. I personally think commuter rail ridership would be much higher than current levels if tolls and gas taxes had been increased over the last 15 years and the comm. rail had lower fare hikes than has otherwise been the case in recent past.
I don't think its sufficient to say overall ridership is not down, let's call it a day, and conclude there are no problems with the pricing structure on a policy level. I think most reasonable people think that having to drop nearly $20 (or more if you happen to live further out than rte. 128) to commute into Boston via transit is not a reasonable way to encourage mass transit use.
I don't know official CR ridership #'s. I know the press is reporting overall T ridership overall is higher. However, I certainly know many who have switched away from the commuter rail. My point being, even assuming CR ridership is up, it doesn't mean that the T is not losing a lot of former or potential riders.
For example, new subdivisions are constantly being built on the outer fringes of suburbia which should result in new ridership and a better job market with more commuters can often mask the fact that some existing riders are leaving transit. I personally think commuter rail ridership would be much higher than current levels if tolls and gas taxes had been increased over the last 15 years and the comm. rail had lower fare hikes than has otherwise been the case in recent past.
I don't think its sufficient to say overall ridership is not down, let's call it a day, and conclude there are no problems with the pricing structure on a policy level. I think most reasonable people think that having to drop nearly $20 (or more if you happen to live further out than rte. 128) to commute into Boston via transit is not a reasonable way to encourage mass transit use.