General MBTA Topics (Multi Modal, Budget, MassDOT)

[Matthew]

Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

Anyone know if Charlie Cards fade in range over time? It seems lately that mine is having more difficulty being read than it used to.

 

[underground]

Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

Not that I'm aware of. I had a first gen that worked through my wallet right up until it was retired.

 

[Riverside]

Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

Anyone know if Charlie Cards fade in range over time? It seems lately that mine is having more difficulty being read than it used to.

I mean, CharlieCards are like other plastic cards. In the right environment, they can decay. I know I had a CharlieCard that I forgot about that lived in a not-so-good part of my wallet for a long time; I pulled it out, tested it and it was completely dead.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

I've had mine right since the month they were introduced. Still works perfectly. And I don't think I've ever had a bank card last until its expiration date without the magnetic strip failing.

 

[whighlander]

Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

Charlie Cards -- aka Stored Value RF Card operate through what is known as short range Passive RFID in the 13.56 MHz unlicensed band

In fact they are a fairly sophisticated system which consists of:

1) a wire loop antenna for receiving and transmitting

2) a "switch" connecting the antenna to the receiver (default) and transmitter

3) radio receivers which receives a generic interrogation signal from the "Turnstyle"
This interrogation signal also provides the power for operation

4) a memory storing your ID and your $ balance and other information

5) a small computer -- i.e micro controller
Encodes your ID, $ balance and other information into the outgoing data stream

6) a fairly low power radio frequency transmitter with a range of a less than a foot

The way the system is designed is that if enough power is received to trigger a response the output is independent of the power received

So any difference in the signal received from you by the Turnstyle is do to diostnce and any intervening material

Time will not effect any of the above

Perhaps you now have a different wallet

 

[whighlander]

Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

I mean, CharlieCards are like other plastic cards. In the right environment, they can decay. I know I had a CharlieCard that I forgot about that lived in a not-so-good part of my wallet for a long time; I pulled it out, tested it and it was completely dead.

Riverside -- That can happen with Magstripe cards in the presence of magnets [i.e. other magstripe cards] and some relative motion [i.e. wiggling]

This can not happen with RFID stored value passive cards -- you would have to heat your wallet to somewhat uncomfortable temperatures [aka boil the card or stick it in an oven] to have any effect and the effect would be total unresponsiveness

 

[Riverside]

Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

Riverside -- That can happen with Magstripe cards in the presence of magnets [i.e. other magstripe cards] and some relative motion [i.e. wiggling]

This can not happen with RFID stored value passive cards -- you would have to heat your wallet to somewhat uncomfortable temperatures [aka boil the card or stick it in an oven] to have any effect and the effect would be total unresponsiveness

Hmm, well, I dunno then. As I said, the card was buried in my wallet for a long time. And all I know is that it didn't work afterwards. *shrug*

 

[whighlander]

Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

Hmm, well, I dunno then. As I said, the card was buried in my wallet for a long time. And all I know is that it didn't work afterwards. *shrug*

Riverside --- that would be expiration

All of those cards keep track of time

As well as keeping your $ balance and your ID they also receive and transmit a few other things such as:
where you got on and when
where you get off and when

When your card will expire

There are 1000 bytes in the memory -- you can actually store quite a bit

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

Hmm, well, I dunno then. As I said, the card was buried in my wallet for a long time. And all I know is that it didn't work afterwards. *shrug*

RFID chips can get fried by high temperatures. That's the most common cause for them crapping out. They're somewhat susceptible to electromagnetic damage much like any microchip, but in general they're shielded pretty well so it happens nowhere near as often as credit card strips getting wiped. But highest risk is if you left your wallet exposed to sun for too long in a broiling hot car or something like that.

 

[Riverside]

Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

Riverside --- that would be expiration

All of those cards keep track of time

As well as keeping your $ balance and your ID they also receive and transmit a few other things such as:
where you got on and when
where you get off and when

When your card will expire

There are 1000 bytes in the memory -- you can actually store quite a bit

That's probably it. As I said, this one was lost for a long time.

RFID chips can get fried by high temperatures. That's the most common cause for them crapping out. They're somewhat susceptible to electromagnetic damage much like any microchip, but in general they're shielded pretty well so it happens nowhere near as often as credit card strips getting wiped. But highest risk is if you left your wallet exposed to sun for too long in a broiling hot car or something like that.

That may also be what happened.

But neither of these necessarily explains what's going on with Matthew's card.

 

[Matthew]

Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

Thanks, I knew the vague details of how it worked, but not enough to be sure. I haven't changed anything. Just one day, it started giving me more trouble. I've been more careful about keeping my card since I've had past ones get bent out of shape.

I guess if I'm going to switch away from it I better get it done now before the automatic monthly charge goes through.

 

[whighlander]

Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

AS technology evolves the capabilities of the RFID System will improve -- such as special passes, Commuter Rail, Time of Day, Destination Pricing [e.g. "Just for you a special World Series Pass -- from anywhere to Fenway, Yawkee or Kenmore -- just $50 R/T with a free e-coupon good for $10 at the Red Sox Souvenir Store"]

As there is no way without extracting the chip to update the firmware on the card -- New firmware for the RFID Tag microcrontroler necessitate new versions of and hence more expirations of current cards

I'm willing to bet that the unexpected stoppage was an internal expiration of the code

 

[whighlander]

Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

RFID chips can get fried by high temperatures. That's the most common cause for them crapping out. They're somewhat susceptible to electromagnetic damage much like any microchip, but in general they're shielded pretty well so it happens nowhere near as often as credit card strips getting wiped. But highest risk is if you left your wallet exposed to sun for too long in a broiling hot car or something like that.

F-Line you are mixing and matching too many things:

Mag Stripe --[e.g. Charlie Ticket] -- is just a piece of magnetic tape on paper or plastic -- it can be demagnitized by exposure to extreme heat [i.e. Curie temperature] not accessible under normal conditions such as a hot car -- you can only cook it in an oven or by setting fire to the card

Can also be demagnitized by exposure to strong changing magnetic fields -- Tape Eraser or by close proximity contact with another magnet with relative motion -- so wiggling around with two or more cards in your wallet

Chip-based "Smart Cards" are susceptible to heat -- ball park boiling water temperatures -- a black wallet in a closed car with the sun hitting the wallet is possible

Those with contacts [Not a Charlie] can be damaged by direct exposure to AC line, Car battery across the the wrong terminals and possibly Static Electricity

Those without direct electrical connection [e.g. Charlie Card] can be "cooked" by a very strong EM field oscillating around the RFID Tag Frequency -- not likely in consumer environment. Some may fail from intense microwave exposure -- stick the card in a microwave oven with a cup of water to protect the microwave -- probably going to cook it

So basically unless you dropped your wallet in the slush and then decided to dry it out in either a conventional or microwave oven -- Most likely the Charlie Card was not going to be damaged

Of course either a Charlie Card or Charlie Ticket is vulnerable to mechanical destruction by shredding or in the case of the Charlie Card hammering on the chip

As they say this is not Rocket Science -- its just RFID -- showing up in your life a lot more times than you can imagine

 

[Matthew]

Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

The T is doing a short survey on their website, should be the first thing on their announcement list. What's neat is at the end they show you the results so far.

Obviously, frequency and reliability come in tops. It's a shame, though, that accessibility is in last place.

I think the big shocker is that about a third of those surveyed, a plurality, have said that they are overall "Satisfied" with the T.

 

[George_Apley]

Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

^ Their survey sample size is pretty small at the moment.

 

[datadyne007]

Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

^ Their survey sample size is pretty small at the moment.

That, and to casual riders and tourists, the T is fantastic because it covers so much area, especially the Central Subway. Downtown you are never more than a 5 min walk to a T-stop really. It really skews the opinions of tourists that aren't really relying on it for timeliness. A 15 min wait at Prudential is fine to them, but for us, we have appointments to get to, etc.

 

[Matthew]

Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

Do you really think tourists are filling out this survey?

 

[datadyne007]

Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

Do you really think tourists are filling out this survey?

The T missed out on that important question. There should have been one about frequency of use so they could break down the data by heavy users and casual ones.

 

[metasyntactic]

Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

I used the additional comments space to complain about the terrible front-door boarding policy.

 

[datadyne007]

Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

Furious with the MBTA right now. I was able to watch the ENTIRE F'ING SUNSET while waiting for a bus I could fit on at Maverick today. Inspired me to fire this off to them:

Good evening,

I arrived at Maverick station at 5:15PM tonight. A 116 or 117 did not come for about 15 minutes until a 116 showed up on schedule. As usual during the evening peak, a massive crowd had already formed and the bus pulled up past the 116/117 berth to the 120/121 berth. The crowd made the usual mad dash to the bus and then an inspector offered rear door boarding with one catch - only paper link/week passes issued on CharlieTickets could board in the rear. This allowed all of the paper pass holders to get out of line and fill up the back of the bus while a lot of us CharlieCard LinkPass holders had to continue to wait to validate at the front. The bus soon reached capacity, and the inspector told us there was a 117 coming behind and that we would have to step back for this one to leave. We stepped back, it left, and then an old high-level bus (unknown what designation since "out of service" was displayed) pulled in on the other side to let the passengers off. This bus then pulled forward, shut its lights off and the driver disappeared. Meanwhile, people continued to pour out of Maverick and the crowd built up again. Soon after, a 117 arrived to drop off passengers and pulled up behind the other bus. This bus also shut its lights off. Both buses sat idle while massive crowds formed for about 20 minutes. Eventually, both pulled around to the boarding berths. The inspector made no effort to ensure that those of us that could not fit on the previous bus had priority for this next one. He also continued the same practice of only letting paper passes on in the back which again filled up the first bus I tried to board. Luckily I finally got on the other bus and made it home to Chelsea at 6:30, after originally arriving at Maverick at 5:15.

There are a few key problems/suggestions I want to raise:
1.) Why don't key bus route ticket inspectors have CharlieCard validation devices like the inspectors have on the Green Line? You are effectively punishing CharlieCard LinkPass holders and rewarding CharlieTicket LinkPass holders by allowing them to cut the line. Isn't the goal supposed to be for people to have CharlieCards and not waste paper with CharlieTickets?

2.) Inspectors should ensure that passengers that could not fit on a previous bus are able to get on the next one.

3.) The 116 and 117 are Key Bus Routes that are severely overcrowded (we actually skipped stops full of people on the way to Chelsea because the bus was too full). Articulated buses need to be looked at for implementation on these routes at least during the morning and evening peak.

Thanks for your concern to these matters. I'm available for contact and happy to discuss these suggestions further.