General MBTA Topics (Multi Modal, Budget, MassDOT)

Fred R

New member
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Messages
50
Reaction score
0
Berklee is likely to cause confusion with Berkeley Street, particularly since there's a Berkeley Street exit from Arlington Station. Instead, restore the name "Massachusetts" to the GL station. Rename the OL station "St Botolf". Unique, geographically accurate, and it does homage to Boston's original name.
sorry for the misspelling. It's St Botolph.
 

HelloBostonHi

Active Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Messages
609
Reaction score
359
Berklee is likely to cause confusion with Berkeley Street, particularly since there's a Berkeley Street exit from Arlington Station. Instead, restore the name "Massachusetts" to the GL station. Rename the OL station "St Botolph". Unique, geographically accurate, and it does homage to Boston's original name.
Yeah except St Botolph St runs parallel to the OL from Back Bay station all the way to and past the current Mass Ave. Also lets not forget Mass Ave (Silver Line station) and Symphony GL which is... also geographically Mass Ave. I like Newbury, no street.
 

bakgwailo

Active Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2016
Messages
950
Reaction score
51
And Hynes was originally a Curley flunkey who temporarily stood-in for Curley
That is actually a great idea - we don't have any stations named after Mayor Curley, let's just rename it in his honor. Beloved by the people of the city so much he was even able to gain re-election while monetarily incarcerated on fake trumped up Brahmin charges.
 

jklo

Active Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2015
Messages
450
Reaction score
20
Yeah I think the MBTA is done naming things after people. I think you gotta go with Newbury West.
 

Norval Elliot

New member
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Messages
31
Reaction score
11
That is actually a great idea - we don't have any stations named after Mayor Curley, let's just rename it in his honor. Beloved by the people of the city so much he was even able to gain re-election while monetarily incarcerated on fake trumped up Brahmin charges.
When the time comes, other stations could be renamed Moe and Larry.
 

bakgwailo

Active Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2016
Messages
950
Reaction score
51
Yeah I think the MBTA is done naming things after people. I think you gotta go with Newbury West.
In all seriousness, though, I like Newbury West. Auditorium seems fine, too. Back Bay West? Prudential West (rename existing Prudential Center or something)? Mass New?
 

stick n move

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2009
Messages
6,654
Reaction score
878
Has there ever been an outer ring proposal for rt 95 to allow transfers between the commuter rail further away from the city and not having to go downtown on every train?
 

George_Apley

Not a Brahmin
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2012
Messages
4,266
Reaction score
618
Has there ever been an outer ring proposal for rt 95 to allow transfers between the commuter rail further away from the city and not having to go downtown on every train?
Nope. I have a crazy LRV proposal between the Fitchburg Line in Weston through west Waltham along I-95, through Lexington along the power line ROW to the Burlington Mall, and an even crazier extension to Woburn and the Lowell Line. But IRL finding a rail ROW would be really really tough.

Better to try to get some sort of bus service.
 

jklo

Active Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2015
Messages
450
Reaction score
20
Has there ever been an outer ring proposal for rt 95 to allow transfers between the commuter rail further away from the city and not having to go downtown on every train?
I don't think it would get much usage.
 

F-Line to Dudley

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2010
Messages
5,681
Reaction score
564
Has there ever been an outer ring proposal for rt 95 to allow transfers between the commuter rail further away from the city and not having to go downtown on every train?
Close to 50 years ago they *briefly* studied adding a rail median to Route 128 when the highway was being widened to 6 lanes all-around, but it was just a throw-shit-at-the-wall concept that wasn't even fleshed enough to say what mode they'd be choosing and what exactly (other than the generally-accepted rapid transit offsets for planned highway construction) it would interface with. Skin-deep only glance, so it left no mark or lessons on history.

The major problem with attempting this is that the density along 128 isn't a fit for transit. The immediate exits have all the clustered office park density, but between exits the highway is going through Neponset Reservation, Wilson Mountain Reservation, Cutler Park, outer Charles River, Stony Brook Reservoir, the outskirts of Minuteman State Park, and a lot of tall trap rock outcrops....all of which have more resident turkeys than humans. It's very hard to string something coherent together when the density comes on/drops off a table instead of ebbing and flowing in a way that would be amenable to transit. There's no "corridor" per se, just a density cluster built up around an exit that peters out when it hits the nearest geological limit. And since there isn't any sort of contiguous demand corridor, just a lot of last-mile trips from an exit, I can't see how a transit line that has to live 100% on transfers and the density that's immediately adjacent to the transfer stops can survive when there's almost no variety of intermediate stops you could string together for any sort of corridor. So I don't think there's any there there for circumferential transit, even if the spoke lines from Boston built/unbuilt/potential/crazy forced a taming of the car culture at those office parks. Last-mile shuttles are what's needed to the jobs, but they live off the spokes.

The only *possible* exception, and I think the need is a weak one, is shivving tracks along 128 for about 1.7 miles connecting Riverside Jct. on the Worcester Line with the Fitchburg Line as a replacement for the Grand Junction. There is easily room for it through Stony Brook Reservoir by shifting the road a lane over to the westerly side and rebuilding the River St. overpass. Assuming something is baked into the mass rebuild of the Pike/128 interchange you'd have the path reserved through the ramp spaghetti. But, as has been described here before, you don't need a direct replacement for the Grand Junction or the NSRL to take it offline for Urban Ring conversion; south vs. north Commuter Rail equipment independence such that 1-2x daily Grand Junction T/Amtrak moves can shrink to 1-2x weekly over the Worcester-Ayer bypass will do it. There's no freight considerations anymore for routing away from Allston. And the Worcester-North Station study showed little demand outside of hours when Orange/Red were suffering under load, so fixing Orange/Red reliability defrays most of that MetroWest need. I also don't think you're managing a Green Line poke to Waltham out of Riverside on this connector because River Rd. is an extremely weak intermediate catchment making it an extremely off-scale distance for GL stop spacing averages.

So...feasibility is pretty decently established. The need, however?...not at all. That connector would be a proverbial hammer in search of a nail.
 

bigpicture7

Senior Member
Joined
May 5, 2016
Messages
1,729
Reaction score
92
Just "Newbury" is fine, let's not overthink it. This is where the GL intersects Newbury, people will figure it out. If you're so concerned, see "Boylston" station.
I'm with you on the "keep it simple" front, but is the one extra syllable of "Newbury West" going to break the bank?

The issue here is that the relationship between GL and Newbury is essentially parallel the entire way, until they subtly swap sides. At least at Boylston, it takes a sharp turn...at Arlington it intersects perpendicularly...same deal with OL at Mass Ave.

Yes people will "figure it out"...but is helping them at essentially zero cost such a shame?
 

whighlander

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Messages
7,410
Reaction score
441
Just "Newbury" is fine, let's not overthink it. This is where the GL intersects Newbury, people will figure it out. If you're so concerned, see "Boylston" station.
Illogical -- Newbury is parallel to Boylston which conducts the Green Line -- you would have no sense as to where on Newbury

No it has to be Berklee -- the other end of Arlington is hardly referenced anywhere

Of course if Marriott buys the Hynes and integrates 3 Hotels and a large Ballroom into the privately operated Back Bay Convention Center -- you could call it Marriott
 

whighlander

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Messages
7,410
Reaction score
441
Close to 50 years ago they *briefly* studied adding a rail median to Route 128 when the highway was being widened to 6 lanes all-around, but it was just a throw-shit-at-the-wall concept that wasn't even fleshed enough to say what mode they'd be choosing and what exactly (other than the generally-accepted rapid transit offsets for planned highway construction) it would interface with. Skin-deep only glance, so it left no mark or lessons on history.

The major problem with attempting this is that the density along 128 isn't a fit for transit. The immediate exits have all the clustered office park density, but between exits the highway is going through Neponset Reservation, Wilson Mountain Reservation, Cutler Park, outer Charles River, Stony Brook Reservoir, the outskirts of Minuteman State Park, and a lot of tall trap rock outcrops....all of which have more resident turkeys than humans. It's very hard to string something coherent together when the density comes on/drops off a table instead of ebbing and flowing in a way that would be amenable to transit. There's no "corridor" per se, just a density cluster built up around an exit that peters out when it hits the nearest geological limit. And since there isn't any sort of contiguous demand corridor, just a lot of last-mile trips from an exit, I can't see how a transit line that has to live 100% on transfers and the density that's immediately adjacent to the transfer stops can survive when there's almost no variety of intermediate stops you could string together for any sort of corridor. So I don't think there's any there there for circumferential transit, even if the spoke lines from Boston built/unbuilt/potential/crazy forced a taming of the car culture at those office parks. Last-mile shuttles are what's needed to the jobs, but they live off the spokes.

The only *possible* exception, and I think the need is a weak one, is shivving tracks along 128 for about 1.7 miles connecting Riverside Jct. on the Worcester Line with the Fitchburg Line as a replacement for the Grand Junction. There is easily room for it through Stony Brook Reservoir by shifting the road a lane over to the westerly side and rebuilding the River St. overpass. Assuming something is baked into the mass rebuild of the Pike/128 interchange you'd have the path reserved through the ramp spaghetti. But, as has been described here before, you don't need a direct replacement for the Grand Junction or the NSRL to take it offline for Urban Ring conversion; south vs. north Commuter Rail equipment independence such that 1-2x daily Grand Junction T/Amtrak moves can shrink to 1-2x weekly over the Worcester-Ayer bypass will do it. There's no freight considerations anymore for routing away from Allston. And the Worcester-North Station study showed little demand outside of hours when Orange/Red were suffering under load, so fixing Orange/Red reliability defrays most of that MetroWest need. I also don't think you're managing a Green Line poke to Waltham out of Riverside on this connector because River Rd. is an extremely weak intermediate catchment making it an extremely off-scale distance for GL stop spacing averages.

So...feasibility is pretty decently established. The need, however?...not at all. That connector would be a proverbial hammer in search of a nail.
F-Line I think I agree in general about following Rt-128as being a non-starter -- with one exception:

from just south of Totten Pond Rd exit [Winter St.] past Trapello Rd on to Rt-2 in Lexington there is essentially one continuous strip on both sides of the highway with several million square feet of high-value office / lab space -- this will eventually generate more than 10,000 commuters as well as some restaurants and hotels

You could put in a Mattapan High Speed Trolley Line type of service running just behind the buildings along Wyman St and Smith Street -- you would have to take some pieces of parking lots by eminent domain unless you wanted to tunnel
 

Siobhán

New member
Joined
Aug 22, 2019
Messages
9
Reaction score
3
Illogical -- Newbury is parallel to Boylston which conducts the Green Line -- you would have no sense as to where on Newbury

No it has to be Berklee -- the other end of Arlington is hardly referenced anywhere

Of course if Marriott buys the Hynes and integrates 3 Hotels and a large Ballroom into the privately operated Back Bay Convention Center -- you could call it Marriott
The Green Line runs under Boylston street and has a station named Boylston.
 

bakgwailo

Active Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2016
Messages
950
Reaction score
51
Illogical -- Newbury is parallel to Boylston which conducts the Green Line -- you would have no sense as to where on Newbury

No it has to be Berklee -- the other end of Arlington is hardly referenced anywhere

Of course if Marriott buys the Hynes and integrates 3 Hotels and a large Ballroom into the privately operated Back Bay Convention Center -- you could call it Marriott
There is literally an Arlington Station (along with Bolyston St). If the Air Right developments don't fall through how about renaming the area 'Pike Square' and then call the station that as a reminder as to what it used to be.
 
Last edited:

jbray

New member
Joined
May 22, 2019
Messages
54
Reaction score
20
The Green Line runs under Boylston street and has a station named Boylston.
There is literally an Arlington Station (along with Bolyston St). If the Air Right developments don't fall through how about renaming the area 'Pike Square' and then call the station that as a reminder as to what it used to be.
Yes, we should double down on poor naming conventions because we already have Stations named that way.
 

Arlington

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 10, 2011
Messages
4,203
Reaction score
406
"Boylston" was a good name from about 1896 to 1900 when the project was a Tremont St Subway. Once/since it turned the corner and actually ran under Boylston, the name has sucked.

Newbury would be a clear, elegant blend of wayfinding and marketing.

I like that Somerville has proposed it's station name == neighborhood names that real estate listings and restaurants can use.

Boston is a hub-and-spoke street system. Naming line stations after the hubs (squares and neighborhoods) is ideal.


New York, given a strong grid and famous traverse streets (14, 23, 34,42,57) named its lines after Avenues (Broadway, 7th, Lex, 6th, 8th, 2nd...) and stations after streets. Here, such a cross street-names-station scheme has no semantic underpinning.
 
Last edited:

Arlington

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 10, 2011
Messages
4,203
Reaction score
406
(College Ave is not my favorite for the GLX, I'd have preferred Tufts College the original name of the school, but we have too many Tufts)
 

jbray

New member
Joined
May 22, 2019
Messages
54
Reaction score
20
If you have the ability to lend an ear, Metrolinx (of Toronto) is presenting their regional rail plan, The Big Move, to the FMCB to explain how they achieved and are trying to achieve their vision.
 

Top