Green Line Extension to Medford & Union Sq

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

The plan is to build six stations with service opening on June 29, 2021.
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This sounds the most realistic date so far. I assume Union branch should be ready few years before this though...
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Smartiro said:
This sounds the most realistic date so far. I assume Union branch should be ready few years before this though...
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I mean the year. Not sure why they put an exact date on it...
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Does this have any impact on the rest of the MBTA's funds? For example, was that $1B already accounted for but now can be used on other projects? Or was it just a hole in the project's finances that the federal government filled?
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

I'm a bit puzzled about the cost. Last estimate I heard was that it would cost $1.3 billion to reach College Ave.

What's with this $2.3 billion?
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Outrageous! Us supporters of SoCo Rail are appalled!

D
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Matthew said:
I'm a bit puzzled about the cost. Last estimate I heard was that it would cost $1.3 billion to reach College Ave.

What's with this $2.3 billion?
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According to this Globe article from September, the costs were expected to rise to $1.6B, but $2.3B is dangerously close to doubling...

Again, we have to ask... why can't we build transit projects for reasonable prices? Yes, they have to cut the sides of the whole ROW and build retaining walls, but $2.6B without any tunneling is obscene.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

For the year's slip (reported in the Globe, but I'll wait 'til I see a whole presentation from the T), all I can say is that over at the GLX thread on RR.net
I'm trying to keep a running version of whatever the publicly-released schedule was. My Aug 1st 2014 revision, Based on a July 2014 public meeting the schedule was:
Code: 
July 2014 90% Plans for phase 2/2A Lechmere, Washington St, & Union Sq Submitted
July 2014 60% Plans for "Beyond Washington St" recommence
Aug. 2014 Demolition complete on 21 Water St[NEW 8/1/14]
Sept 2014 FTA submission for Full Funding Grant Agreement (FFGA) under New Starts to be submitted
Fall 2014 Temporary (Construction) easements acquisition
End 2014 Medford St Bridge Reconstruction (5 tracks wide) complete[NEW 8/1/14]
Sprg 2015 Design begins on Vehicle Storage & Maintenance Facility (VSMF / Stage 3)
???? 2014 MBTA is "proceeding" with rehab of eight existing cars to support Phase 2/2A ops
July 2015 Harvard St Bridge Reconstruction (4 tracks) & expanded retaining wall complete[NEW 8/1/14]
Dec  2015 FTA/Congressional approval of FFGA expected
???? 2015 Construction on Phase 2/2A Begins
Late 2017 Completion of Phase 2/2A Complete
Late 2017 New Type 9 Cars start arriving
Sprg 2018 New Type 9 Cars all delivered
???? ????  VSMF completed (as precondition for "Beyond Washington" ops)
June 2020 Completion of "Beyond Washington St" & "Project Completion"
And June 2020 was itself (at the time) controversial because it represented a six-month slip (from "end of 2019").

F-Line has pointed out that the big holdup (and a big cost item) is the VSMF (Vehicle Storage & Maintenance Facility), which we foolishly permitted to be moved from online (on owned land in Brickbottom) to land we have to acquire/condemn. The answer to "where are all these surprise costs and delays coming from" is from the VSMF--condemning active businesses and building flyovers to get there--not the linear extension (which went from $600m to $1.2b as it got palatial stations)


The Brickbottom "artists" are laughing at you suckers, having sold out, inviting bidding frenzies, and/or doing cash-out refinancing on their lofts, getting "their" extension in Phase 2 (2017) and making the rest of us wait 'til 2021. They are childish pigs (from a public-policy standpoint) and we let them win at our great expense and delay. We let them freak out over a yard full of electric vehicles because we all know what terrible things being close to the surface Green Line did to real estate values and quality of life in Brookline, Newton and Chestnut Hill.
 
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Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Matthew said:
I'm a bit puzzled about the cost. Last estimate I heard was that it would cost $1.3 billion to reach College Ave.

What's with this $2.3 billion?
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It seems like they're lumping everything together into one cost, even including new trolleys. This is typical with the MBTA.

The cost of the project also includes the construction of a new maintenance facility for the MBTA, a community bike path running through Somerville, more bike facilities for commuters, and new trolleys.
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Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

datadyne007 said:
It seems like they're lumping everything together into one cost, even including new trolleys. This is typical with the MBTA.
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I guess no one ever accused the T of being good at optics...
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

datadyne007 said:
It seems like they're lumping everything together into one cost, even including new trolleys. This is typical with the MBTA.
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Also, doesn't the project essentially require a complete rebuild of that section of the Lowell and Fitchburg lines? So it's $2.3 billion for more than 8 linear miles, rolling stock, layover yard, and maintenance shed. That is still expensive, but not so far out of line as it might seem at first.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

datadyne007 said:
It seems like they're lumping everything together into one cost, even including new trolleys. This is typical with the MBTA.
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The cost of the new trolleys has always been a part of the project (go see the detailed breakdown on the EOT website).
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

BussesAin'tTrains said:
I guess no one ever accused the T of being good at optics...
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It's a typical political ploy to get projects funded. You find the lowest number for the most basic element, this case it would cost $1.3B to build the ROW and stations (which at that point hadn't been fully designed so you don't know how much they really cost.) Then as the project passes the point of no return you start to factor in the other costs because at that point you can't back down. Every place does it, but that doesn't mean it's right.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Matthew said:
Big news:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...and-medford/WstVh8YwfH6dbL6toVIWNI/story.html
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I wonder if this was based on some false assumption of the Gas Tax Indexing staying on the table

In a Dec. 1 letter, the acting administrator of the Federal Transit Administration wrote members of Congress about the agency’s intention to give the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority $996 million, or 43 percent of the entire cost of the project, in “New Start” grant funds......

In the letter, which was released Tuesday, the federal agency estimated the project would cost $2.297 billion with the remainder of the money coming from state bonds and $305 million in state operating funds
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Given the New Administration is already facing about $300+ M in deficit left behind by Patrick -- at the very least the Bakers will want to go over the budget with a "fine tooth comb"
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

vanshnookenraggen said:
It's a typical political ploy to get projects funded. You find the lowest number for the most basic element, this case it would cost $1.3B to build the ROW and stations (which at that point hadn't been fully designed so you don't know how much they really cost.) Then as the project passes the point of no return you start to factor in the other costs because at that point you can't back down. Every place does it, but that doesn't mean it's right.
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Though I believe part of the issue is not the tactic, but the fact that we're still have to spend 2.3 billion for a few miles - a price that should infer we are tunneling rather than using an existing ROW. Taking in the perspective of other countries, we should the price rise as we are, but not in this way.

Arlington's post finally gives me some understanding of what driving the cost so much. The choice of letting Brickbottom not getting the railyard have proven to be a mistake.
 
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Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

whighlander said:
I wonder if this was based on some false assumption of the Gas Tax Indexing staying on the table
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No -- Bev Scott explicitly stated in an interview last week that the GLX funding was not contingent on indexing.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Matthew said:
No -- Bev Scott explicitly stated in an interview last week that the GLX funding was not contingent on indexing.
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I think we will need to see who gets to be the new Sec of DOT and then a few months will pass while the new Sec reviews the status and offers the new Baker Admin perspective on construction over-runs and the gold plating and gold bricking in the T and other parts of the DOT
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

FenwayResident said:
Does this have any impact on the rest of the MBTA's funds? For example, was that $1B already accounted for but now can be used on other projects? Or was it just a hole in the project's finances that the federal government filled?
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I'm excited about the Transit Infrastructure Upgrade. But the MBTA needs to get their fiscal house in order. I think our leaders have lost all concept of budgets, spending habits and other infrastructure costs that will continue to put a drain on the working class Family.

Overall a big win for Boston, Cambridge, Someville, Medford, along with Unions, MBTA workers, Tufts students.
 
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