Green Line Extension to Medford & Union Sq

[Equilibria]

Evidently my fear/reticence of asking the question for a friend was well-founded

Apologies, I was thinking like a European for a moment there......I'll go check out that other thread.

It would cost all of the billions there too, they just tax people enough to spend them.

And I think you want the realtors on your side. That puts Lechmere as the "inner belt/Brickbottom" station because it is at least on the right side of the tracks.

While that's an interesting map, you were right when you said that the station location/names will drive neighborhood names, not the other way around. I'd side with the neighbors over the realtors 10 times out of 10.

 

[shmessy]

It would cost all of the billions there too, they just tax people enough to spend them.

Nope - - the COST is far less. There was an eye opening article a few months back (I'll try to find it) that showed the shocking cost difference per mile of building mass transit rail in Europe versus the US.

Post edit: Here it is:

Why Does Urban Rail Cost So Much in the U.S.?

It’s not just the Second Avenue Subway: Nearly all urban rail projects in the U.S. cost much more than their European counterparts.

www.citylab.com

"..........Nearly all American urban rail projects cost much more than their European counterparts do. The cheaper ones cost twice as much, and the more expensive ones about seven times as much. The reasons for this are varied: Some arise from the character of the project (unique regulations related to commuter rail), some from state rules (California’s problem with contractors), and some from poor project management (Boston’s Green Line Extension).
Many of these problems are solvable upon a careful review of what it takes to build a new subway or light-rail line. Boston’s experience in limiting its cost overrun is instructive, and could prove to be a model for other cities. Modernizing work rules to avoid having many redundant employees, as described in detail in Rosenthal's investigation, could also provide savings. If cities overstaff tunnel construction by a factor of four, they could hire the same number of workers to build four times as much tunnel and devote the cost savings to further infrastructure improvements......"

So yes, Equilibria, my mistake was thinking like a European. From the article, it sounds like the new management of the T is beginning to do so also, which is a good sign for the future.

.

 

[Javier]

 

[Javier]

Ball square bridge

 

[Arlington]

So yes, Equilibria, my mistake was thinking like a European. From the article, it sounds like the new management of the T is beginning to do so also, which is a good sign for the future.

Yes, Paris & London teach us that the billions for new stuff should be 1/2 of what Boston pays or 1/4 of what NYC pays. And we hope that the late contracting reform we're applying to the GLX can be the start of building smarter (cheaper) new transit.

 

[Equilibria]

Yes, Paris & London teach us that the billions for new stuff should be 1/2 of what Boston pays or 1/4 of what NYC pays. And we hope that the late contracting reform we're applying to the GLX can be the start of building smarter (cheaper) new transit.

But all of the billions is still all of the billions. Does it matter that a $50 billion project would be $25 billion in London? Only if you have $25 billion to spend.

 

[citylover94]

But all of the billions is still all of the billions. Does it matter that a $50 billion project would be $25 billion in London? Only if you have $25 billion to spend.

But its not all of the billions its half. Your example of $50 billion becomes $25 billion shows that. Yes it is still a lot of money, but it is also still half the money that has to be found. This isn't an issue that we should just throw our hands up at. This can be solved by changing operating practices and adjusting how things are handled by looking at other places with lower costs. Alon who has spent a lot of time looking at this issue has suggested that part of the issue in the USA may be the reliance on outside contractors versus in house design staff. Spain for example has large in house design staffs and has much lower costs for transit projects than the USA. There are other factors as well, but if you want to learn more I would suggest checking out his blog https://pedestrianobservations.com/.

 

[stick n move]

^ Yeah baby! Elevated rail lives on.

Agreed. Also the way that modern concrete viaducts are, Id love to have a new El. Back when the old ones were torn down they were an eyesore, but today theyre pretty nice and you get incredible views from the trains. I wouldnt mind a new el to dudley on a concrete viaduct to restore the views that were lost. I dont think itd ever happen in a million years though.

 

[HenryAlan]

I wouldnt mind a new el to dudley on a concrete viaduct to restore the views that were lost. I dont think itd ever happen in a million years though.

All the way from some portal, elevated through the South End would never happen, but I could see an elevated stretch between Melnea Cass and Dudley. There is room on the rest of the Washington St. section for a surface reservation.

 

[Arlington]

Based on what can be seen from the Lowell line, they seem to be down to the last 100' worth of drain-pipe burial before they can finish dumping ballast an start moving (or laying) the outbound CR track in it's final position.

I assume that the retaining walls on the CR side can be finished after the track shift (since they are doing so in the regions they have already shifted)

 

[RandomWalk]

I think they still need to put drain in from the Somerville DPW to Broadway. That area had the berms for retaining wall installation during most of 2019

 

[RandomWalk]

Why Does Urban Rail Cost So Much in the U.S.?

It’s not just the Second Avenue Subway: Nearly all urban rail projects in the U.S. cost much more than their European counterparts.

www.citylab.com

"..........Nearly all American urban rail projects cost much more than their European counterparts do. The cheaper ones cost twice as much, and the more expensive ones about seven times as much. The reasons for this are varied: Some arise from the character of the project (unique regulations related to commuter rail), some from state rules (California’s problem with contractors), and some from poor project management (Boston’s Green Line Extension).
Many of these problems are solvable upon a careful review of what it takes to build a new subway or light-rail line. Boston’s experience in limiting its cost overrun is instructive, and could prove to be a model for other cities. Modernizing work rules to avoid having many redundant employees, as described in detail in Rosenthal's investigation, could also provide savings. If cities overstaff tunnel construction by a factor of four, they could hire the same number of workers to build four times as much tunnel and devote the cost savings to further infrastructure improvements......"

The US also doesn’t invest as much in the public realm, so there is a tendency to include all the extras in projects that do get funded. Otherwise, there might not be another opportunity for more than a generation.

 

[Arlington]

We certainly saw that in the Community Path's inclusion in the GLX, and both projects suffered (the bridge section is too narrow)

 

[Jake_Jarmel]

I assume that the retaining walls on the CR side can be finished after the track shift (since they are doing so in the regions they have already shifted)

I would agree, the most critical thing is mobilizing rigs for the drilled shafts of soldier pile & lagging walls and noise barriers.

 

[fattony]

• Throughout the weekend of January 10, between the Washington St. bridge and the Sycamore St. bridge, GLX work crews will be relocating the first of two Commuter Rail tracks to its permanent location along the east side of the MBTA right-of-way.
• Work will continue during the day and overnight. Activities will include heavy equipment movement, hauling and dumping of crushed stone, and the cutting and welding of track. Overnight noise in these areas may be disruptive at times, primarily due to the use of gasoline-powered hand tools needed to cut tracks.
• Between Sycamore St. and Harvard St. in Medford, work continues to install drainage and construct noise walls, retaining walls, and the Broadway bridge foundation.
• On the Union Square branch, work continues to construct the foundation for the future station and a retaining wall behind Target.

 

[Arlington]

^ I read that as they're not too far off schedule because....
1) Between Washington St. bridge and the Sycamore St bridge is the part where they are most obviously behind on and most space-constrained by the CR.

• This is where they can't start working on the stations (on the "inbound" side of the ROW) until the CR is moved to the "outbound" side)
• That they're (at last) moving it is good.

2) Between Sycamore and Harvard St

• Ball Sq site was not affected by the CR, and was so "not on the critical path" that it was/is being used for piling gravel
• Magoun Sq site also had (I think) enough slack that if they'd needed, they could have started work
• The real problem in this stretch is the Broadway Bridge replacment, which looks messy and delayed, but I don't think is holding up GLX construction

3) Beyond Harvard St...things were already on schedule

 

[RandomWalk]

Concrete pump trucks have been making more frequent appearances at the Broadway bridge site, so progress is being made.

 

[Javier]

 

[Javier]

 

[Arlington]

View looking inbound from the current end of the Somerville Community Path at Lowell St (near Maxwell's Green& future Magoun Sq station).

This is where they are behind schedule in moving the CR, but can't quite tell if it is the fault of the Broadway bridge (behind the camera) or the drainage under the CR that is "the holdup"