High Speed Tolls

czsz said:
High speed tolls? I support the idea if it leads to more roads being charged for, but consider that it also facilitates the ease of driving v. transit. We WANT drivers to get fed up in toll related traffic jams so they take transit. I'm not sure a virtual charge to their credit card that they won't see for another month is going to do it.
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Speak for yourself. You're stating that you want to make the driving experience worse, in order to encourage alternate use. I cannot support that.

I support tolls for the controlled access highways, for the simple fact that they're effective and its generally hard for the money to get re-directed (unlike the gas tax). But not for the sake of making the drivers' lives worse. The whole purpose of mass transit is to make the drivers' lives better.
 
"The whole purpose of mass transit is to make the drivers' lives better."
This is not even close to correct, and is absurd to boot. Why would we subsidize transport for the poor or disabled, who will never drive anyway, if the entire purpose of ALL MASS TRANSIT is "making drivers' lives better"?
 
I was with you until this:
The whole purpose of mass transit is to make the drivers' lives better.
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Uh, no. That's how you end up with pathetically broken American transit, which sucks and nobody really wants to take it unless they absolutely must.

Cities are built for people. Modern cities have largely outgrown the range of a person on foot. Therefore, the purpose of mass transit is to connect the various, walkable parts of the city together, over distances that are too far for walking, in a way that fits within the constrained geometry of the city.

Park and rides are the extreme end of this principle, where only one end of the trip is in a walkable place, and the other end is an interface to (mostly) inhospitable terrain.

Paying tolls, like paying fares, should be made as easy and simple as possible. And tolls should, like fares, be widely deployed to capture the cost of driving in the city and charge the beneficiary for that cost as much as possible.
 
You guys are arguing over a response to a comment czsz made over four years ago.
 
Any pictures of the tolls they've installed on the Tobin?
 
Something needs to be done with the Pike. Yesterday it took me almost 2 hours to get from the Weston tolls to South Station. No accidents. WBZ traffic said it was "Convention Center traffic" I checked the convention scheduled and there are no events that would have caused traffic to be so bad that it takes 2 hours to go 12 miles. I have also noticed that in the afternoons the traffic has been backing up on the pike earlier and earlier. I wish the train was an option for me.
 
It's my hunch that a lot of the traffic on the inbound pike is often related to slow traffic on the central artery. Pre Big Dig the inbound pike would frequently be jammed probably from cars trying to exit north and south on the constantly jammed central artery.

After the big dig, traffic flows usually better in the immediate area of downtown in the central artery but when it slows it doesn't take long for it effect the mass pike. This may explain eastbound pike traffic. As far as westbound traffic, i don't know.
 
I attempted to drive from Andover to Braintree before rush hour yesterday. 45 minute without traffic. I figured I'd give myself an hour at 4:30. It took an hour and 40 minutes. That is very likely the cause of your Pike backup. I figured maybe its Cape traffic? Get on the road early Thursday for a long weekend? There was no visible reason for the crawling pace
 
fattony said:
I attempted to drive from Andover to Braintree before rush hour yesterday. 45 minute without traffic. I figured I'd give myself an hour at 4:30. It took an hour and 40 minutes. That is very likely the cause of your Pike backup. I figured maybe its Cape traffic? Get on the road early Thursday for a long weekend? There was no visible reason for the crawling pace
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The only time it isn't "rush hour" on any Boston highways is between 11:30-13:30. All other times are rush hour loads until about 19:00-19:30.
 
datadyne007 said:
The only time it isn't "rush hour" on any Boston highways is between 11:30-13:30. All other times are rush hour loads until about 19:00-19:30.
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For better and worse, Boston rush hours start earlier than other metro areas because our Hospitals (a big employment component) have many workers and support stuff on a 7am to 3pm shift (we don't notice their 11pm shift change in their 3x8=24 schedule).

Better, because it makes the evening rush less sharp/acute, and lets us get more out of all our infrastructure by spreading the commutes around (similar to how the Federal government staggers start times across agencies in DC)

Worse, because our sustained period of intense traffic is, as you say, basically every daylight hour. (I'd say the midday "non rush" is 10:30 - 14:30...an hour longer on each side than datadyne's)
 
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datadyne007 said:
The only time it isn't "rush hour" on any Boston highways is between 11:30-13:30. All other times are rush hour loads until about 19:00-19:30.
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I just can't believe the traffic people endure daily! It is shocking and calls peoples' (society's) collective judgement into question. I counter-commute on the tail ends of the rushes so I usually have free flow on I-93. Once a week I take 93S to 90W to AB/Cam exit around 6:30pm and I rarely have slow downs.

How can it be in anyone's economic interest to spend so much time crawling on highways? Sorry, don't mean to derail the thread so I'll try to tie it in.

It appears to me that tolls - cash money costs - might help people make more rational economic choices about driving. As it is, they are paying MUCH more than a few dollars per day in wasted time.
 
I just can't believe the traffic people endure daily! It is shocking and calls peoples' (society's) collective judgement into question.
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Haven't you heard that you absolutely have to live in the suburbs, work downtown, and drive everywhere in your car? That's the only way to not only be an adult, but also a TRUE AMERICAN.
 
I was down by South Station again yesterday and it always amazes me to see all the crazy drivers pouring out of the Seaport. I really don't know why people put themselves through that mess. Even the Silver Line isn't that bad. Hopefully this will subside as they develop over the remaining parking lots.
 
fattony said:
It appears to me that tolls - cash money costs - might help people make more rational economic choices about driving. As it is, they are paying MUCH more than a few dollars per day in wasted time.
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Absolutely. Start with variable tolling (steps up/down) that are never so big as to be worth pulling to the shoulder to wait for, but can still gently nudge everyone 10 or 30 minutes "away" from the peak-of-peaks. They'd be at their daily peak at whenever daily demand peaks (8:30a and 5:15pm?)

Tolls from 11pm to 5am would be free:
1) Help janitors and other working stiffs who work late...its progressive
2) Gives a clear reason to shift trips out of the peak time...creating rush capacity "for free"

Every person who's enticed away from the peak then frees space at the peak for people who'd pay $4 on the Tobin (not today's $3).
 
underground said:
Haven't you heard that you absolutely have to live in the suburbs, work downtown, and drive everywhere in your car? That's the only way to not only be an adult, but also a TRUE AMERICAN.
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American Traffic Jam = Soviet Bread Line

Un-metered Rush Hour Asphalt = Cheap Bread

Both are market failures created by governments who told the proles they could have something for free.

Or, in analogy notation:

Cheap Bread:Bread Line::Cheap Asphalt:Traffic Backup
 
commuter guy said:
It's my hunch that a lot of the traffic on the inbound pike is often related to slow traffic on the central artery.
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I think you are correct. And it is not only the central artery but when coming in town from the east, the South Station/Atlantic Ave exit can back up all the way to the pike which can royally slow things down for many miles on the pike eastbound. Atlantic Ave is generally a disaster from 8:30am to 10:00am mostly because the city refuses or is unwilling to ticket/tow trucks that block entire lanes of the street.
 
Arlington said:
American Traffic Jam = Soviet Bread Line

Un-metered Rush Hour Asphalt = Cheap Bread

Both are market failures created by governments who told the proles they could have something for free.

Or, in analogy notation:

Cheap Bread:Bread Line::Cheap Asphalt:Traffic Backup
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http://www.wired.com/2014/06/wuwt-traffic-induced-demand/

So what can be done about all this? How could we actually reduce traffic congestion? Turner explained that the way we use roads right now is a bit like the Soviet Union’s method of distributing bread. Under the communist government, goods were given equally to all, with a central authority setting the price for each commodity. Because that price was often far less than what people were willing to pay for that good, comrades would rush to purchase it, forming lines around the block.
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Not much can be done with the Pike. Like the Southeast Expressway, it's a substandard freeway with only 3 lanes for a good portion and it also lacks a breakdown lane.

Best case for the Pike is to completely rebuild the 95/90 interchange in Weston with flyover ramps and widen 95 to 6 lanes in each direction 1.5 mils in either direction from the Pike to allow for dedicated exit and merge lanes.
 
mass88 said:
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/po...lectronic_booths_on_pike/srvc=home&position=0

Looks like finally we could be seeing high speed tolls. I realize that the tolls stink and they should go away. But that is not happening.

Mass has been behind the curve on this and I think if they actually do put them in, it will make the tolls less congested. Nothing is more annoying than being stuck behind someone who goes literally 2 mph through the Fast Lane because they want to make sure it gets them.
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Also, nothing is more annoying than motorists being in the EZPass lane who are not EZPass members and are supposed to be paying cash for tolls in the cash lanes, when they don't have an EZpass transponder.

And you're stuck just outside the toll machine, sitting and waiting there because they finally realise that they're in the wrong lanes and trying to change over to the cash lanes to pay.

I don't know how many times that I've had to go through this when waiting to reach the EZPass toll machines at Beacon Park. :mad: :eek:
 
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