Hotel Project (Current Shell Station) | 1241 Boylston St | Fenway

[tysmith95]

The problem is that in a perfect world zero people would drive to Fenway. There is demand for parking, but it's honestly not helping the neighborhood.

That's plausible at the garden where you've got the entire north side of the commuter rail a metro line and a light rail line. At Fenway all you've got is a single commuter rail station on one line and an overcrowded light rail. Not enough public transportation for the 40k people or so that go to each game.

Plus lots of people are coming in from places outside of 128 where there isn't much public transportation.

Sure getting rid of parking sounds nice, but its never going to happen until cars can drive themselves.

 

[markhb]

That's plausible at the garden where you've got the entire north side of the commuter rail a metro line and a light rail line. At Fenway all you've got is a single commuter rail station on one line and an overcrowded light rail. Not enough public transportation for the 40k people or so that go to each game.

Plus lots of people are coming in from places outside of 128 where there isn't much public transportation.

Sure getting rid of parking sounds nice, but its never going to happen until cars can drive themselves.

Also, my son uses a wheelchair, and accessibility on the Green Line is... less than ideal. Especially if you get an older trainset and they have to stop everything to use that portable elevator thing.

 

[Arlington]

Also, my son uses a wheelchair, and accessibility on the Green Line is... less than ideal. Especially if you get an older trainset and they have to stop everything to use that portable elevator thing.

I thought all Green trainsets were required to have a Type 8 (low floor) and with some of the Type 7s out for rehab, often both are Type 8s. Its been years since I've seen a trainset without at least one Type 8 (2 Type 8s, or an 8&7 or the rare single 8, and never just 7s)

 

[sm89]

Plus lots of people are coming in from places outside of 128 where there isn't much public transportation.

Sure getting rid of parking sounds nice, but its never going to happen until cars can drive themselves.

Given the effect that parking has on the quality of life for people who live in and around Fenway, I don't think that really matters. Parking for residents and businesses (as required by zoning) is fine, but expanding parking options for general use is a bad idea. Just because someone chooses to drive in from 128 doesn't mean that we should reduce housing units in developments to fit more parking for them.

I thought all Green trainsets were required to have a Type 8 (low floor) and with some of the Type 7s out for rehab, often both are Type 8s. Its been years since I've seen a trainset without at least one Type 8 (2 Type 8s, or an 8&7 or the rare single 8, and never just 7s)

I just moved off the E a few months back so I don't know if anything has changed recently, but at night and on Sundays single cars are common. They do still run single 7s, just not very frequently.

In terms of accessibility, I think City Councilor Michelle Wu is doing a phenomenal job at publicizing the issues that some riders face. She does so because of her struggles bringing her children around with a stroller (not a disability), but I think that helps more people relate to the problem. https://twitter.com/wutrain

 

[Downburst]

I just moved off the E a few months back so I don't know if anything has changed recently, but at night and on Sundays single cars are common. They do still run single 7s, just not very frequently.

Seconded that single cars are common on the E at night and Sundays. I've only seen a single 7 once or twice ever- I really think it's a situation the T would like to avoid as much as possible.

 

[tysmith95]

Given the effect that parking has on the quality of life for people who live in and around Fenway, I don't think that really matters. Parking for residents and businesses (as required by zoning) is fine, but expanding parking options for general use is a bad idea. Just because someone chooses to drive in from 128 doesn't mean that we should reduce housing units in developments to fit more parking for them.

This parking isn't reducing housing units. It's underground parking not mandated by zoning laws that replaces the surface parking that the gas station lot acts as during events. In fact they're taking surface parking (during games and gas station during all other times) and turning it into apartments.

If building underground parking was restricted by zoning (aka maximum parking requirements) then not as many housing units would be built. This is not comparable to places to where a certain amount of parking for each unit is mandated

One example of this not totally working out is the apartments next to Wellington in Medford. The garage there is usually half full (though people do use it to walk over to the train). But still they built more parking then the development needs, this is because Medford requires 2.1 parking spaces per unit (which is crazy).

This development is not anywhere like Medford. It's a place where parking is in high demand so a new building, where a gas station that doubles as parking currently sits, that is including underground parking in the development plans.

 

[FenwayResident]

I don't get this board's anti-car rhetoric. We should be improving ALL modes of transport, not just public. Of course, the USA has historically neglected its public transport, but that does not mean we should ignore cars going forward.

This is going to be a hotel. I'm sure they would like the ability for their guests to park on site (and pay a considerably nightly rate). I'm sure many of their guests would like the ability to drive into town, park at the hotel, watch a ball game, and stay the night.

There's no opportunity cost to building these parking spaces - it's not like they decided to build a parking garage instead of 200 residential units. Instead of a basement garage there would have been some random hotel amenities and/or mechanical rooms. These parking spots are not costing the neighborhood anything.

 

[Dave Lopes]

What a wasted opportunity to build a beautiful building in such a prominent corner. This box could fit anywhere in any office park in the metro area. A 15+ story slimmer tower with more of a residential/hotel/classical exterior look would be a better fit.

 

[sm89]

This parking isn't reducing housing units. It's underground parking not mandated by zoning laws that replaces the surface parking that the gas station lot acts as during events. In fact they're taking surface parking (during games and gas station during all other times) and turning it into apartments.

Space that isn't used for cars could be used for people here. The parking for this building is for hotel guests, not game days. They have to build a certain amount of parking for a hotel-use per zoning. There is no obligation to continue to provide spaces for Fenway events, that was just a money-maker for the former property owner.

There's no opportunity cost to building these parking spaces - it's not like they decided to build a parking garage instead of 200 residential units. Instead of a basement garage there would have been some random hotel amenities and/or mechanical rooms. These parking spots are not costing the neighborhood anything.

It's the monetary cost of building the garage/parking that causes the issues for the developer and leads to higher priced units to make up for it. That's the cycle that the 'anti-car" people here have a problem with.

 

[JumboBuc]

To me, one level of below grade parking for a hotel seems prudent and reasonable. I don't see what the big deal is...

It's the monetary cost of building the garage/parking that causes the issues for the developer and leads to higher priced units to make up for it. That's the cycle that the 'anti-car" people here have a problem with.

That's not how economics works. The hotel will price its rooms at whatever level the market will bear, with or without the garage. Cost only affects price to the extent that it limits supply, and here supply is capped by height restrictions (which the developer is maxing out). Thus, the cost of building underground parking will have no connection to room rates.

 

[FenwayResident]

Space that isn't used for cars could be used for people here. The parking for this building is for hotel guests, not game days. They have to build a certain amount of parking for a hotel-use per zoning. There is no obligation to continue to provide spaces for Fenway events, that was just a money-maker for the former property owner.

These spaces are underground. Any reputable hotel would never have underground rooms... in fact there's probably regulations against it, but I'm ignorant on that front.

It's the monetary cost of building the garage/parking that causes the issues for the developer and leads to higher priced units to make up for it. That's the cycle that the 'anti-car" people here have a problem with.

As JumboBuc said, hotel room prices are largely dictated by supply and demand. Of course, there's a minimum price per room that is needed to meet investors' ROI requirements - any additional construction would increase that. However, with the current lack of hotel rooms in Greater Boston, the market price is well above the break-even price. Also, the hotel will be able to offset the additional construction costs by selling parking spaces for something like $30/night/space. It's not going to have a huge impact on the investors' bottom lines.

 

[sm89]

Omg guys you're killing me... My comment was in response to tysmith95's claim that having parking at the hotel FOR FENWAY EVENTS would be a great benefit. I disagreed.

I did not oppose parking for the hotel's uses.

 

[HalcyonEra]

Omg guys you're killing me... My comment was in response to tysmith95's claim that having parking at the hotel FOR FENWAY EVENTS would be a great benefit. I disagreed.

I did not oppose parking for the hotel's uses.

The vast majority of those attending events at Fenway via car attend events at Fenway sporadically at best. The continual elimination of parking is not going to change behavior (driving in), it will simply cause a cluster for those coming in from the burbs and wherever else. Even if all autos were self driving, as mentioned earlier, they would still need a place to park when not in service.

 

[markhb]

I thought all Green trainsets were required to have a Type 8 (low floor) and with some of the Type 7s out for rehab, often both are Type 8s. Its been years since I've seen a trainset without at least one Type 8 (2 Type 8s, or an 8&7 or the rare single 8, and never just 7s)

That may well be the case, but even with the Type 8's the rules are that the operator has to come over and operate the automated bridge place for you. It's easier than the portable lift for the Type 7's, but it's still conspicuous and makes you feel like you're holding everyone up. Plus, his mother's not big on second chances, so any suggestion of us going anywhere on the T with our son is a non-starter now. Our typical plan now for a game at Fenway is (assuming we don't get there early enough for the HC spaces off Boylston) to park at the Pru and walk.

 

[BosDevelop]

The vast majority of those attending events at Fenway via car attend events at Fenway sporadically at best..

This is simply not true. I had the fortune of being a Sox season ticket holder from 2003-2011. There are a large number of season ticket holders (or partial season ticket holders) who attend at least 20+ games a season who drive to Fenway for every single game and have no problem dropping $40 each time. It is simply not a realistic option to take the train to Fenway from many parts of New England. You would be surprised how many people attend games each night that drive from places in New England and beyond that are not reasonably accessible via commuter rail, the green line or bus service.

 

[JumboBuc]

Can we make a "Fenway Park Parking and Transportation" thread under "Transit and Infrastructure" so that this discussion doesn't clog up the respective threads of nearly every Fenway development project?

 

[bakgwailo]

Omg guys you're killing me... My comment was in response to tysmith95's claim that having parking at the hotel FOR FENWAY EVENTS would be a great benefit. I disagreed.

I did not oppose parking for the hotel's uses.

I don't really see a difference though - it would just be more parking underground that would just not exist otherwise. Plus I would expect it would be good business for the hotel to be able to sell spots at $50+ every home game.

 

[jass]

Can we make a "Fenway Park Parking and Transportation" thread under "Transit and Infrastructure" so that this discussion doesn't clog up the respective threads of nearly every Fenway development project?

Yes please, we get the same two people insisting that the average Red Sox customer is disabled, has 7 kids, lives in northern Maine, and has been diagnosed with an allergy to public transit.

 

[tysmith95]

Yes please, we get the same two people insisting that the average Red Sox customer is disabled, has 7 kids, lives in northern Maine, and has been diagnosed with an allergy to public transit.

We also have the people saying that cars are evil all parking is bad. No development should ever have any sort of parking.

And my argument isn't that we need parking. My argument is that the economics of the area support parking. And it's not just disabled people or people out of commuter rail range, there is also wealthy people from Weston, Lexington, Belmont, etc who find that it takes half of the time to drive in versus what it would take using commuter rail.

Although one thing that does reduce the need for parking slightly is Uber. For people inside of 128 it can often be the same price or cheaper to just take an Uber. Plus you don't have to worry about drinking and driving.

Still though, if lots are charging 50 bucks a game and are filling up, there is a market to add parking to the bottom of new developments in the area.

Ok i'm taking this thread totally off of the rails. Maybe the mods should move it lol.

 

[FenwayResident]

Yes please, we get the same two people insisting that the average Red Sox customer is disabled, has 7 kids, lives in northern Maine, and has been diagnosed with an allergy to public transit.

Nope. Maybe you need to work on your reading comprehension.