Hurley Building Redevelopment | 19 Staniford St | West End

[Lrfox]

I wish they would do something about this bleeping parking lot, fenced off from the city.

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I'd be happy if they'd stop using it as parking and return it to it's original purpose - a plaza. Some greenery could make it a nice space.

 

[Blackbird]

Paul Rudolph's Boston Government Service Center is in danger

According to a recent article from The Boston Globe, due to city's

archinect.com

No new information, but the headline provides a look into how the news is being received by the architecture community.

Some “architecture community” if they can’t even feature a picture of the correct building.

 

[Arlington]

I'd be happy if they'd stop using it as parking and return it to it's original purpose - a plaza. Some greenery could make it a nice space.

But if Rudolph intended that it be all impermeable, what then?

My suggestion for this strange triangle would be to make it a park and at least give the Lindemann the campus setting that it never had (and that other successful brutalist pieces seem to need)

If the State has a windfall (above replacing the office sq ft) from the sale and redevelopment of the Hurley, I'd like to see the $ to 3 things:
1) Restoring the Lindemann, including getting it some vine cover and a garden apron (this triangle as a parklet)
2) $ for the Blue Line's missing headhouse at Government center
3) Making Merrimac bike-ped friendly

 

[datadyne007]

Workers chipped it all by hand.

He's not kidding, that's literally how Rudolph's corduroy concrete was done:

Would it even pass code, today?

No. The staircases are wildly non-code compliant. They would need at least one, probably 2, center handrails and the tread depth, nosings and risers would all be non-compliant.

 

[vanshnookenraggen]

Now that the shock has worn off I got to thinking about how you could save the base and still develop a tower above. Lord knows worse buildings have been saved this way in Boston before. Cutting the super block up is a must and I realized that with the garage entrance on the side you could turn this into a kind of through street entry arch with a pedestrian street cutting the site in half. Sticking the tower in the center isn't any different from the original plan anyways. This also allows a step back effect with different massing. As others have pointed out the Hurley itself is less architecturally significant, the court yard area even less than the street wall. Done right, this is a redevelopment I could support.

 

[Arlington]

Valiant effort! How would you fix its sidewalk presence?

 

[vanshnookenraggen]

It would have to depend on what kind of space is available on the ground floor. Regular store fronts won't work all the way around. Stainford St isn't very high volume so maybe just glass windows which show the inside somehow. The Cambridge St side could use a destination restaurant. The funny thing is Rudolph did think about this by including the concrete benches. I'd like to see something that incorporates them.

 

[odurandina]

Valiant effort! How would you fix its sidewalk presence?

Bust up the 1st floor with the wrecking balls, then entomb it all inclu' the chain link fences in molten glass w/ faux Chernobylite
to simulate a nuclear holocaust.

 

[whighlander]

Bust up the 1st floor with the wrecking balls, then entomb it all inclu' the chain link fences in molten glass w/ faux Chernobylite
to simulate a nuclear holocaust.

Odourandia - -that's a bit excessive

I go for some of the Brutally Beaten Concrete and some chain link -- a kinda cross between the remnants of the Berlin Wall and something by Frank Gehry

Santa Monica House circa 1978

Berlin and Shipyard Walls @ Solidarność site Gdansk Poland

 

[odurandina]

To be clear: ruins w/ Chernobylite street level
and baddass 775' modernism rising out.

Excess? Rudolph would bask in it's apparent excess,
and not be excess at all (in his world).
It would be ________ incredible.

 

[vanshnookenraggen]

He's just trolling at this point.

 

[FK4]

8am today
Powerwash that concrete, and replace the glass. Lots that could be done here.

 

[Shepard]

View attachment 1071
8am today
Powerwash that concrete, and replace the glass. Lots that could be done here.

I try to be fair to these buildings. I know they're architecturally significant. So, really, I'm sorry to have to say this: a powerwash and new glass would in fact be great... IF this were on a college campus somewhere, or out in suburbia where street level activity is a lower priority.

But in the heart of the city? Unfortunately the dictum we like to use here "better than a parking lot" just about barely applies, no matter how clean the concrete or shiny the glass. I consider myself a creative person and would love to think of a workable re-adaptive solution, but I don't think there is one.

 

[whighlander]

I try to be fair to these buildings. I know they're architecturally significant. So, really, I'm sorry to have to say this: a powerwash and new glass would in fact be great... IF this were on a college campus somewhere, or out in suburbia where street level activity is a lower priority.

But in the heart of the city? Unfortunately the dictum we like to use here "better than a parking lot" just about barely applies, no matter how clean the concrete or shiny the glass. I consider myself a creative person and would love to think of a workable re-adaptive solution, but I don't think there is one.

Shepard --Exactly --- look at the pix -- it looks worse than Johnson's BPL expansion BUNKER ever did --- when I walk by there -- its always on the other side of the street -- even if it means just changing sides of the street for 1 block

 

[FK4]

I try to be fair to these buildings. I know they're architecturally significant. So, really, I'm sorry to have to say this: a powerwash and new glass would in fact be great... IF this were on a college campus somewhere, or out in suburbia where street level activity is a lower priority.

But in the heart of the city? Unfortunately the dictum we like to use here "better than a parking lot" just about barely applies, no matter how clean the concrete or shiny the glass. I consider myself a creative person and would love to think of a workable re-adaptive solution, but I don't think there is one.

What this picture needs is less cars, and more pedestrians and more trees. Yes, there are creative ways to rethink this. But you cannot actually contend that there’s literally nothing that could be done that could seriously improve this... that’s what design is all about. It may not be as satisfactory to some as a replacement, but the building - sidewalk - street interaction as exists now is awful. But, nowhere near as horrible as the Brooke Courthouse - that’s truly a blank wall for an entire two blocks. Another building that’s interesting on the interior-of-the-block angle but bad on the street.

 

[whighlander]

What this picture needs is less cars, and more pedestrians and more trees. Yes, there are creative ways to rethink this. But you cannot actually contend that there’s literally nothing that could be done that could seriously improve this... that’s what design is all about. It may not be as satisfactory to some as a replacement, but the building - sidewalk - street interaction as exists now is awful. But, nowhere near as horrible as the Brooke Courthouse - that’s truly a blank wall for an entire two blocks. Another building that’s interesting on the interior-of-the-block angle but bad on the street.

FK -- I think everyone connected with the site have come to the conclusion -- the several hundred millions needed to bring the building up to code and modern office standards is unjustifiable in terms of spending scarce taxpayer dollars -- let alone anything that needs to be done to make it aesthetically pleasing and a positive urbanity

The only reasonable solution - demolish it and build something new in its place - its not like One PO Square where stripping the concrete cladding off the steel structure and replacing the cladding with glass is a viable update -- this bunker is built out of reinforced concrete poured in place -- finished by the horrible hand-hammering

Level It!

 

[Lrfox]

What this picture needs is less cars, and more pedestrians and more trees. Yes, there are creative ways to rethink this. But you cannot actually contend that there’s literally nothing that could be done that could seriously improve this... that’s what design is all about. It may not be as satisfactory to some as a replacement, but the building - sidewalk - street interaction as exists now is awful. But, nowhere near as horrible as the Brooke Courthouse - that’s truly a blank wall for an entire two blocks. Another building that’s interesting on the interior-of-the-block angle but bad on the street.

I'm not going to defend the Brooke, but the pedestrians on the sidewalk in your photo are walking by a literal blank wall. I actually think the Staniford and Cambridge St. facades have more potential than the New Chardon side and that's not saying a whole lot. And while you could theoretically make improvements, the DCAMM reports indicate that they need nearly a quarter of a billion dollars just do get this thing back to working order. That's before you start talking actual streetscape improvements and creative rethinking. I realize that the current state of disrepair due to neglect is the fault of the state, but the reality is that it's extremely difficult to argue that preservation and creative improvements are worth it from a fiscal perspective. So the contention isn't that nothing can be done, the contention is that the combination of disrepair/neglect and the overall negative impact this monolith has on the streetscape around it make it very difficult to make the case for preservation/improvements to the structure.

 

[Equilibria]

What this picture needs is less cars, and more pedestrians and more trees. Yes, there are creative ways to rethink this. But you cannot actually contend that there’s literally nothing that could be done that could seriously improve this... that’s what design is all about. It may not be as satisfactory to some as a replacement, but the building - sidewalk - street interaction as exists now is awful. But, nowhere near as horrible as the Brooke Courthouse - that’s truly a blank wall for an entire two blocks. Another building that’s interesting on the interior-of-the-block angle but bad on the street.

I see 6 cars in that picture, and two of them are in the innermost travel lane. I see a lot of pedestrian plaza there. It is (a) locked away from the sidewalk behind a retaining wall, (b) useless because there are no entrances to the building on that entire facade, so what's the point of walking there, and (c) not easy to fix, because the concrete ribs go all the way to the wall and there appear to be light wells next to the windows.

Removing the parked cars and replacing them with a bike/bus lane does nothing to fix anything. Adding trees at least adds some trees, but to put people on the plaza you need to give them a reason to be there. Doors, specifically. That doesn't gel well with a long, low-rise government office building which probably limits access points for security reasons and wants to pipe natural light down to below-grade offices.

You say this picture needs more "pedestrians", but there aren't pedestrians because the building actively discourages them in ways that are intensive to fix.

EDIT: I don't mean to bash a road diet on New Chadron, my point is that the problem with that plaza isn't that it's not wide enough.

 

[vanshnookenraggen]

I feel like people are letting their preexisting hatred for this building cloud their creative mind. This is the Johnson Public Library building before and after reno. This is exactly what we are talking about here.

 

[FK4]

I'm not going to defend the Brooke, but the pedestrians on the sidewalk in your photo are walking by a literal blank wall.

This is all about height. The difference between walking alongside a 3 foot wall vs a 6 foot wall vs a 40 foot wall need no further explanation. If the sidewalk itself was activated by adding trees — and, especially by widening it even more to make this stretch of sidewalk it's own "thing" and give a sense of place — the 5-6 foot high wall there could actually help enclose this space in a nice way, rather than exacerbate the situation.

I actually think the Staniford and Cambridge St. facades have more potential than the New Chardon side and that's not saying a whole lot. And while you could theoretically make improvements, the DCAMM reports indicate that they need nearly a quarter of a billion dollars just do get this thing back to working order. That's before you start talking actual streetscape improvements and creative rethinking. I realize that the current state of disrepair due to neglect is the fault of the state, but the reality is that it's extremely difficult to argue that preservation and creative improvements are worth it from a fiscal perspective. So the contention isn't that nothing can be done, the contention is that the combination of disrepair/neglect and the overall negative impact this monolith has on the streetscape around it make it very difficult to make the case for preservation/improvements to the structure.

I agree with most of this. This is measured, thoughtful comment about this. Personally, I think we waste money on many things, including historical preservation, that we shouldn't, and this is potentially worth the money. But that's an opinion, not a fact.

I see 6 cars in that picture, and two of them are in the innermost travel lane. I see a lot of pedestrian plaza there. It is (a) locked away from the sidewalk behind a retaining wall, (b) useless because there are no entrances to the building on that entire facade, so what's the point of walking there, and (c) not easy to fix, because the concrete ribs go all the way to the wall and there appear to be light wells next to the windows.

Removing the parked cars and replacing them with a bike/bus lane does nothing to fix anything. Adding trees at least adds some trees, but to put people on the plaza you need to give them a reason to be there. Doors, specifically. That doesn't gel well with a long, low-rise government office building which probably limits access points for security reasons and wants to pipe natural light down to below-grade offices.

You say this picture needs more "pedestrians", but there aren't pedestrians because the building actively discourages them in ways that are intensive to fix.

EDIT: I don't mean to bash a road diet on New Chadron, my point is that the problem with that plaza isn't that it's not wide enough.

Yes, and see my response to Lrfox and various other comments. The plaza itself above the wall also needs activation which could be accomplished by 1) plantings and 2) actually opening up the passageway to Merrimac, which, due to being closed, obstructs what was meant to be a major pedestrian flow between Causeway and up here.

I like van's and some other folks' proposal to punch a hole through another part of this and to add in some more doorways.

Again, to you, specifically, Equilibria, I know you hate the urbanism of this building, and I'm not sitting here saying it's perfect or it works, but I am saying that there many things that could be done that would vastly improve the urban design flaws. Whether it's worth the cost is another question, although I would be very interested to see some actual proposals on that first. If you had MIT students come up with ten visions for this site along with cost analyses for each, that would tell me much more than simply the state saying the outrageous figure it's going to cost to rehab this building* and therefore offering only one alternative, which is redevelopment.

*(a figure that, even though aB'ers easily blast the MBTA for offering dishonest figures anytime the T says something will cost far more than is believable simply because they don't wanna do X project — not saying this is the case here, but let's get real here, the state wants to develop this property and anytime there's a bias toward a decision, those books are gonna be cooked to support said plan)