I-90 Interchange Improvement Project & West Station | Allston

[underground]

Re: I-90 Interchange Improvement Project (Allston)

I wonder if they are going to get rid of the toll booths and put straight-through EZpass
lanes where vehicles don't have to slow down going through.

They are. Full conversion on the Pike (and I believe the rest of the state too, but could be wrong) was budgeted in the last Transportation Bill.

 

[George_Apley]

Re: I-90 Interchange Improvement Project (Allston)

They're piloting it on the Tobin this year aren't they?

 

[Shepard]

Re: I-90 Interchange Improvement Project (Allston)

Wish I could make the meeting tonight! I think it would be great to dazzle someone like Glen Berkowitz with this and get him on board. Seems like this hits all his advocacy prioriities and more. (I wonder if Glen - or for that matter MassDOT - ever lurk here!)

 

[Equilibria]

Re: I-90 Interchange Improvement Project (Allston)

They are. Full conversion on the Pike (and I believe the rest of the state too, but could be wrong) was budgeted in the last Transportation Bill.

It will be completed by the summer of 2016, before this project starts construction.

 

[Equilibria]

Re: I-90 Interchange Improvement Project (Allston)

Since no one else has done it - a brief report (which hopefully can become more detailed later when MassDOT releases their presentation slides).

MassDOT has retained a highway design firm to expand a bit upon their initial conceptual designs, neither of which escaped significant alterations. The result is three concepts, two of which are suburban designs resembling the first conceptual drawing from before, minus the turn-around ramp. The only difference between these concepts is whether the two intersection points with Cambridge St. are one-way or two-way (off/on vs. east/west). After those slides were shown they got no mention whatsoever.

The third concept got all the attention. The initial idea is to build frontage roads on either side of a relocated turnpike which would have signalized connections to extended neighborhood roads. Those roads would not, in this drawing, extend through to BU, though several speakers suggested MassDOT look into that possibility. As one would expect, neighbors weren't pleased that these access roads connected to their streets (davem had altered his drawing to prevent precisely that).

None of the plans touch SFR/Storrow/River and they all treat bike/ped/transit as something that "of course we'd do". None of the diagrams, however, showed bicycle or pedestrian routes alongside the proposed roads, and the "desire lines" slide that showed "where cyclists want to go" was pretty sad, showing only a single desire line ("eh, you guys probably want to go down Cambridge Street somewhere").

Bottom line: MassDOT thinks this is a road project. Specifically, they think this is a highway ramp and viaduct replacement project. For some reason, they introduced their presentation with lots of pictures of spalling concrete on the viaduct, as if someone in Allston would question why they're taking away the interchange. They recognize that they need to something for bike/ped, but they have no earthly idea of what that means other than maybe some bike lanes and sidewalks.

Fundamentally, that's a flawed approach. I heard a lot of "I know land use is the next stage of this, but..." from neighborhood people. It isn't. As our own davem pointed out (alongside some wonderful neighborhood advocates), this needs to be, from the very first, an urban planning project conducted in partnership with DCR, Harvard and the BRA. Land Use, Transit, Bike/Ped and neighborhood connectivity are all FAR more important than the condition of the highway ramp supports, not least because the traffic flow issues are pretty much centered on SFR/Storrow/River, which is not included in MassDOT's scope of work.

 

[Shepard]

Re: I-90 Interchange Improvement Project (Allston)

Kudos to all of you who went. Was the Davem plan specifically introduced?

 

[davem]

Re: I-90 Interchange Improvement Project (Allston)

Bah, after making a joke and getting applause for critizising Cambridge St in its current configuration, I stumbled over myself about a quarter of the way into whatever I was saying. It was pretty terrible.

Anyway, I got a chance after to talk to a bunch of people after from the community, the DOT, as well as someone from the MBTA working on the south station expansion. Lots of poisitive reactions from everyone, but I'm going to be adjusting the CR storage yard and a few other things people commented on. Apparently my design made its rounds a lot more than I was aware, most of the dot people had seen it already, and the MBTA guy actually went out of his way to find me. Pretty cool. It was a shame the livable streets people ran out of the meeting right after, it would have been great to talk to them.

I got a few pictures of a few of the slides. There wasn't much, they were terrified to piss off the community (and yet managed to anyway, especially Windom St people). The really good news is they are looking at replacing the entire viaduct. The better news is that putting it in a cut IS something they are looking at, although it would be much, much more challenging and expensive than a viaduct. But its on their radar. I wasn't able to get any real feedback on moving SFR from the DOT guys, but I think its because they didn't want to step on anyones toes from the DCR before they reached out. They did say they will be there at the next meeting. Another suprizing thing that a lot of people touched on is that Harvard wasn't there.

It was great to meet some of you in person last night. EQ, sorry we didn't get to talk longer, I was somewhat flustered last night. Ill try to write up something better when I'm in front of a computer.

 

[mass88]

Re: I-90 Interchange Improvement Project (Allston)

Bah, after making a joke and getting applause for critizising Cambridge St in its current configuration, I stumbled over myself about a quarter of the way into whatever I was saying. It was pretty terrible.

Anyway, I got a chance after to talk to a bunch of people after from the community, the DOT, as well as someone from the MBTA working on the south station expansion. Lots of poisitive reactions from everyone, but I'm going to be adjusting the CR storage yard and a few other things people commented on. Apparently my design made its rounds a lot more than I was aware, most of the dot people had seen it already, and the MBTA guy actually went out of his way to find me. Pretty cool. It was a shame the livable streets people ran out of the meeting right after, it would have been great to talk to them.

I got a few pictures of a few of the slides. There wasn't much, they were terrified to piss off the community (and yet managed to anyway, especially Windom St people). The really good news is they are looking at replacing the entire viaduct. The better news is that putting it in a cut IS something they are looking at, although it would be much, much more challenging and expensive than a viaduct. But its on their radar. I wasn't able to get any real feedback on moving SFR from the DOT guys, but I think its because they didn't want to step on anyones toes from the DCR before they reached out. They did say they will be there at the next meeting. Another suprizing thing that a lot of people touched on is that Harvard wasn't there.

It was great to meet some of you in person last night. EQ, sorry we didn't get to talk longer, I was somewhat flustered last night. Ill try to write up something better when I'm in front of a computer.

Two questions:

When you refer to viaduct, are you speaking about the portion of the Pike, just after the tolls, until it goes under Comm Ave?

What do you mean when you say "putting it in a cut IS?"


Nice notes on the meeting. Hopefully the Globe, or Herald will have a decent write up with some pictures.

 

[Equilibria]

Re: I-90 Interchange Improvement Project (Allston)

Bah, after making a joke and getting applause for critizising Cambridge St in its current configuration, I stumbled over myself about a quarter of the way into whatever I was saying. It was pretty terrible.

Anyway, I got a chance after to talk to a bunch of people after from the community, the DOT, as well as someone from the MBTA working on the south station expansion. Lots of poisitive reactions from everyone, but I'm going to be adjusting the CR storage yard and a few other things people commented on. Apparently my design made its rounds a lot more than I was aware, most of the dot people had seen it already, and the MBTA guy actually went out of his way to find me. Pretty cool. It was a shame the livable streets people ran out of the meeting right after, it would have been great to talk to them.

I got a few pictures of a few of the slides. There wasn't much, they were terrified to piss off the community (and yet managed to anyway, especially Windom St people). The really good news is they are looking at replacing the entire viaduct. The better news is that putting it in a cut IS something they are looking at, although it would be much, much more challenging and expensive than a viaduct. But its on their radar. I wasn't able to get any real feedback on moving SFR from the DOT guys, but I think its because they didn't want to step on anyones toes from the DCR before they reached out. They did say they will be there at the next meeting. Another suprizing thing that a lot of people touched on is that Harvard wasn't there.

It was great to meet some of you in person last night. EQ, sorry we didn't get to talk longer, I was somewhat flustered last night. Ill try to write up something better when I'm in front of a computer.

Don't worry about it, I didn't want to step on your toes by chatting up your work, so I found a seat and let you bask in your glory . I didn't notice a single problem with your comment.

The Windom St. problem could have been avoided simply by not including those orange roads on the Harvard property. The access point actually didn't line up with Windom, but the picture was too low res (and washed out in the lights) for people to see that.

The open cut may be too expensive to carry out, but your concept works with an elevated Pike as well. I loved how much moving SFR came up among the comments, with the MassDOT guys basically punting every time to "later concepts." Of course, they don't want to promise something they can't deliver, and the fact they didn't just say "it's not our road, we can't help you" is an encouraging sign that they might, in fact, try to push DCR a bit moving forward. Frankly, direct access from the Pike to Storrow/SFR is not optional for this project, and I would have liked to have seen that mentioned more than once.

Let me emphasize that I think these MassDOT guys are good road designers. This is a good road project. The Commonwealth of Massachusetts and MassDOT do not possess urban planning departments, which presents challenges to the agencies' ability to properly conceive of urban planning projects. While individual development parcels and projects need not be included in these initial plans, pedestrian underpasses (the "Chinese Wall" here will likely end up being the railyard, not the Pike, so that's also the MBTA's problem), separated bike lanes, transit stations and local roads all need to be included from the very beginning. Otherwise, even if DCR spends some money or the MBTA builds a "West Station" (what an awful name yet again) you have multiple projects which won't work smoothly together, rather than a cohesive concept for an improved neighborhood.

 

[cden4]

Re: I-90 Interchange Improvement Project (Allston)

I totally agree about the land use/planning aspect. This project really should first sketch out what the desired resulting street grid will be and then fit the Mass Pike in and around it as much as possible. IMO the Mass Pike and the ramps should be depressed so that it can be covered/hidden easily when this street grid is eventually built out.

 

[davem]

Re: I-90 Interchange Improvement Project (Allston)

Two questions:

When you refer to viaduct, are you speaking about the portion of the Pike, just after the tolls, until it goes under Comm Ave?

What do you mean when you say "putting it in a cut IS?"


Nice notes on the meeting. Hopefully the Globe, or Herald will have a decent write up with some pictures.

Yes, that one. Its got more structural issues than thay thought and they are going to replace it with this project. Right now they are looking at replacing it with a viaduct, but they are seeing if a cut is possible. I won't say who I was talking to, but the challenges are maintaining rail access to/from the grand junction, and groundwater issues since its fill and the charles is only ~40' away, at best. But I think that the fact they are talking about it at all is a good sign. Removing the viaduct and putting the pike in a cut would visually open up that section straight to the river.

Eq, glad to hear I didn't sound as bad as I thought. I guess I just didn't get across everything I was hoping to. Having Harry and then another positive person in line right behind me was a nice tag team too. In general, aside from a few complete loonies (someone thinks Harvard is working on some secret plan to blast a highway on the ROW of the grand junction, another lady just yelled a bunch), the comments were all very thoughtful and positive. A lot of thanking MassDOT for opening this up to the public, and understanding of good urban design. Some NIMBYism, but mostly it was about not repeating the mistakes of the current configuration. Also, a lot more younger people than I expected, which was great to see. I remember going to the New Balance meeting years ago, and it was a 100% different crowd.

 

[Equilibria]

Re: I-90 Interchange Improvement Project (Allston)

Yes, that one. Its got more structural issues than thay thought and they are going to replace it with this project. Right now they are looking at replacing it with a viaduct, but they are seeing if a cut is possible. I won't say who I was talking to, but the challenges are maintaining rail access to/from the grand junction, and groundwater issues since its fill and the charles is only ~40' away, at best. But I think that the fact they are talking about it at all is a good sign. Removing the viaduct and putting the pike in a cut would visually open up that section straight to the river.

They'll get some pressure from BU to do the cut. They've been planning a park deck for decades...

 

[davem]

Re: I-90 Interchange Improvement Project (Allston)

They'll get some pressure from BU to do the cut. They've been planning a park deck for decades...

The issue is the CR tracks still have to remain more or less "at grade", so they will still be an obstacle. But two railroad tracks are far easier to deal with than 12 lanes of freeway.

 

[Equilibria]

Re: I-90 Interchange Improvement Project (Allston)

The issue is the CR tracks still have to remain more or less "at grade", so they will still be an obstacle. But two railroad tracks are far easier to deal with than 12 lanes of freeway.

Actually, based on a quick look at Google Earth, BU could actually build their deck directly back from the plazas around Agganis and come pretty close to clearing the tracks. There would have to be access under the first part of the deck for various loading docks, but they could also bury some parking that way. The bigger issue would be how to drop the elevation to the river level on the other side, although if the Pike is depressed it gives you more width to work with there.

BU can afford to deck a couple of tracks on their own.

 

[underground]

Re: I-90 Interchange Improvement Project (Allston)

Big thanks to Dave and EQ for a) attending, and b) great reporting back.

 

[davem]

Re: I-90 Interchange Improvement Project (Allston)

I apologize for the small pics, I forgot to change the settings on my camera.

Starting off with the worst graphic ever:

IIRC, 142K cars are on the pike before the tolls, 147K cars after, 38K on cambridge st, 66K getting off in Allston and 66K heading towards Cambridge and points north. Or at least that's what I think they said. A chart would have been better.

As EQ touched on, they are looking at this as a roads project, and its damned obvious here.

I think I heard a hiss in the crowd with this one.

Yup.

This is the only one the crowd had any interest in whatsoever. No one even wanted to talk about the other two. it's still pretty bad, and people were flipping out over Windom Street (I think they thought the arrow indicated Windom would be extended, I have no idea). Some lady also flipped about N.Harvard St being extended, but I even heard some members of the crowd saying that its a main road under their breath, so I doubt that's an issue.

Obviously, a lot still needs to be done and there is a long, uphill way to go.

I had touched on this before, but it was made clear to me that some CR storage is going here. Widett and/or Readville will also likely be getting CR storage space, but they want Beacon Park so they don't have to foul the entire south station ladder to move B&A/NEC trains out of service. So basically NEC & B&A trains will lay over at Beacon Park, while Old Colony and Fairmount service will use Widett or Readville.
I'll be redoing my plan to have the CR storage in a less terrible place with this realization.

 

[George_Apley]

Re: I-90 Interchange Improvement Project (Allston)

^ Yeah, as it is it's not much of a "straightening", more of an "easing".

 

[Equilibria]

Re: I-90 Interchange Improvement Project (Allston)

Starting off with the worst graphic ever:

IIRC, 142K cars are on the pike before the tolls, 147K cars after, 38K on cambridge st, 66K getting off in Allston and 66K heading towards Cambridge and points north. Or at least that's what I think they said. A chart would have been better.

As a general rule: When reporting traffic numbers, INCLUDE ARROWS. Traffic counts are literally meaningless without arrows and differentiation between directions. I also noted that when presenting that slide they said "66,000 cars go toward Cambridge" when their own graphic implies that they all turn right and head down Storrow. Obviously that's not true either, but their version obfuscates the critical importance of the connection to Storrow in this project.

I thought the N. Harvard St. lady seemed really sweet, actually... and I do see the issue with that street. It isn't meant to carry all the Pike-bound traffic from Brighton, and it would be set up to do that here.

 

[datadyne007]

Re: I-90 Interchange Improvement Project (Allston)

If the title of your proposal is "suburban type" interchange in the middle of an urban area, you should immediately rethink the proposal.

 

[cden4]

Re: I-90 Interchange Improvement Project (Allston)

So for the 3rd concept, the mainline would be elevated and the surface streets would be below it?