Key MBTA Bus Routes

AmericanFolkLegend said:
100% construction drawings went out to bid in April. Award was made a couple weeks ago. Construction starts this week. Kenmore was under construction for several years. This has been in planning for a couple years. Not a valid comparison in terms of disruption to MBTA customers.

What do you mean "move signs" Jass? This project consists of new sidewalks, bus shelters, bike racks, wheelchair ramps, etc.
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False. The project is ONLY for stop consolidation/moving.

New bus shelters were part of the scoping (ie, identifying which stops should have them) but arent funded through this project. Thats a whole other ballgame (Wall USA). There may be a case where a shelter has to be moved because the stop is being moved or abandoned....but as the other poster mentioned, why cant that be on its own timeline?

The sidewalk extensions? Thats only for route 39/ E line, and that project was ready to begin construction in 2006.

There will be no new wheelchair ramps. If any bike racks are added, thats with the pedal and park project, not the key bus route project.

It was a $10 million grant to move signs. Thats it. Its taken 4 years.


Also: In 2010 Brookline released a report for improving route 66, including bus bypasses and longer stops. You know why that was never implemented? Because this project trumped it.
 
jass said:
False. The project is ONLY for stop consolidation/moving.

New bus shelters were part of the scoping (ie, identifying which stops should have them) but arent funded through this project. Thats a whole other ballgame (Wall USA). There may be a case where a shelter has to be moved because the stop is being moved or abandoned....but as the other poster mentioned, why cant that be on its own timeline?

The sidewalk extensions? Thats only for route 39/ E line, and that project was ready to begin construction in 2006.

There will be no new wheelchair ramps. If any bike racks are added, thats with the pedal and park project, not the key bus route project.

It was a $10 million grant to move signs. Thats it. Its taken 4 years.


Also: In 2010 Brookline released a report for improving route 66, including bus bypasses and longer stops. You know why that was never implemented? Because this project trumped it.
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We must be talking about two different projects. The Key Bus Routes Improvement Project (Contract D30CN01) has new signs, new furniture, new structures, new sidewalks, new lightning, new pedal & park facilities, etc., etc.
That's the project I'm talking about. It was funded with ARRA money, bid in April, and starts in the next week or so.
 
The key bus route proposed plans do mention changes to concrete, although not new pedal&park and stuff. I guess they rolled some other things into this.

I could have picked up detailed documents about the project in March? I should pay more attention to the bids that go out. I wonder if they mind if I sign up for their new on-line bidding system?
 
I don't mind them rolling other improvements into the project, but what the hell, the ARRA money was supposed to be spent 3 years ago.

What exactly do they do down there all day?
 
Matthew said:
I don't mind them rolling other improvements into the project, but what the hell, the ARRA money was supposed to be spent 3 years ago.

What exactly do they do down there all day?
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It's like with the stimulus-paid Haverhill upgrades. They sit on their asses until they're under deadline pressure to spend the money, then pull an all-nighter doing it in one desperate blitz. All those frustrated Haverhill Line riders who watched the mountain of ties by the side of the tracks collect moss for 2 years without a single construction worker in sight are now seeing dozens of guys in orange jackets swarming the whole corridor like ants moving heavy equipment and new hardware going in with every trip.

They're incapable of acting until the gun is to their heads. Then you suddenly see levels of productivity you never thought they had in them. :rolleyes:
 
Matthew said:
I don't mind them rolling other improvements into the project, but what the hell, the ARRA money was supposed to be spent 3 years ago.

What exactly do they do down there all day?
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Its sad, but instead of maximizing mobility, they maximize political constituencies' satisfaction.

So they "do" the slow/democratic process of public hearings. For better or worse we give everybody a voice in every tree on their sidewalk and the position of every bus stop. (and a lot of patronage happens not just at the Beacon Hill level, but at the politician level and at the consultant level...and again at the construction level and again at the work-rule level).

Sometimes its Norman Rockwell touching, and sometimes its a freaking waste of time and money.
 
As for the 66, I wonder if they could do a 66X with an alternate routing, hitting only the major transfer points.

Like so.

Either route, or a combination of both, would allow the 66 to still hit the major transfers, but use the speedways of Kent, Winchester, Babcock and Everett to bypass almost the entirety of Harvard Ave. It looks convoluted, but I can attest from my delivery driver days these routes are super fast during rush hour. There are faster ways, but I doubt a bus could make the turns. As it is I don't think my Linden St routing would work without some no parking zones at the very least, a car barely fits as it is.
 
AmericanFolkLegend said:
We must be talking about two different projects. The Key Bus Routes Improvement Project (Contract D30CN01) has new signs, new furniture, new structures, new sidewalks, new lightning, new pedal & park facilities, etc., etc.
That's the project I'm talking about. It was funded with ARRA money, bid in April, and starts in the next week or so.
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Hm, it looks like they definitely combined two projects. Pedal and park was a completely different federal grant.

"The American Recovery and Reinvest Act (ARRA) has provided the MBTA with $4.8 million for a variety of programs to enhance and expand MBTA bicycle parking facilities "

Also, the following

"The Key Bus Routes Improvement Project[/URL] (Contract D30CN01) has new signs, new furniture, new structures, new sidewalks, new lightning, new pedal & park facilities, etc., etc.""

Can be 100% true if those improvements are ONLY for route 39, the project funded back in 2006. Does the new merged project include those features promised in 2006? Sure. Do they extend past route 39? As far as I know, no.

Look at this document for route 1 (from 2011 mind you)

http://mbta.com/uploadedfiles/About...eliminary Design Proposed Recommendations.pdf

Go to page 3, and read the improvements on the far left, in bold.

Sign moving and paint.

The new additions? I count three new trash cans and one bench....probably taken from stops eliminated to add parking (see the description for mass ave and lansdowne)
 
Jass, I bid the project 2 months ago. I counted the bus shelters. I priced the bike racks. I quoted the sidewalks. Why are we still talking about this?
 
"Pedal & park" refers to locked cages for bicycles at subway stations. It has nothing to do with bus routes at all.
 
Arlington said:
Its sad, but instead of maximizing mobility, they maximize political constituencies' satisfaction.

So they "do" the slow/democratic process of public hearings. For better or worse we give everybody a voice in every tree on their sidewalk and the position of every bus stop. (and a lot of patronage happens not just at the Beacon Hill level, but at the politician level and at the consultant level...and again at the construction level and again at the work-rule level).

Sometimes its Norman Rockwell touching, and sometimes its a freaking waste of time and money.
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But that's not the case. They haven't held a public meeting on this topic in two years. I remember. I couldn't make it that day because of a conflict.

Since then -- nothing. I wrote several e-mails to them over the years, the only direct response ever coming last week. I had my state senator write to them some months ago, he got a response at least.

They haven't approached the community at all in the past two years, not even to say "sorry". At least if it was the "slow/democratic process" then I'd be able to talk to someone.

And that's why I ask: what the hell have they been doing?
 
Ron Newman said:
"Pedal & park" refers to locked cages for bicycles at subway stations. It has nothing to do with bus routes at all.
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Good. Great. Grand. There are 6 Pedal & Parks as part of The Key Bus Route contract. Don't know what to tell you.
 
Lets move on to focus on how things unfold from here, not how we got here.
 
AmericanFolkLegend said:
Jass, I bid the project 2 months ago. I counted the bus shelters. I priced the bike racks. I quoted the sidewalks. Why are we still talking about this?
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Because it seems you dont understand the scope of the project. You repeatedly are confusing the key bus routes program with the bike grant. Yes, apparently they went out together on one bid. No, theyre not the same.

Congrats, you found out about this two months ago. Some of us have been following it for 4 years.
 
davem said:
As for the 66, I wonder if they could do a 66X with an alternate routing, hitting only the major transfer points.

Like so.

Either route, or a combination of both, would allow the 66 to still hit the major transfers, but use the speedways of Kent, Winchester, Babcock and Everett to bypass almost the entirety of Harvard Ave. It looks convoluted, but I can attest from my delivery driver days these routes are super fast during rush hour. There are faster ways, but I doubt a bus could make the turns. As it is I don't think my Linden St routing would work without some no parking zones at the very least, a car barely fits as it is.
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The 66 is a rough ride in my experience. From bunching of 2-3 buses coming at once, to jam packed buses. The fact that the route takes a left onto Brighton Ave from Harvard Ave and then a right onto Cambridge Street, instead of simply going straight for another block and then make a right onot Cambridge street, is absurd.
 
My understanding is that the old route 66 used to terminate at Union Square - Allston and you would transfer to the 86 which ran from Union Square - Allston to Union Square - Somerville. Then they combined those two routes and redirected the new 86 to Market Street and Cleveland Circle.
 
Arlington said:
I think that's what made the Urban Ring make sense up north: we (North-of-Boston) have too many routes overlapping with too many 1940s-era tendrils and neighborhood milk runs...bad for consolidation, but better if they all can pull on and off of a busway for part of their journey.
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I don't think the Urban ring is casted far enough west to be effective. I think the Urban Rings's role could be a new way to expand new bus routes into the 128 corridor, or create better connections between commuter rail stations outside the main central downtown core. I would rather have seen two halfs of which try to bring new outer regions/communities more into the fold. Perhaps North as Chelsea-Everett-Somerville-Medford-Arlington-Belmont-Watertown Ctr.

A southern route could be Dorchester through Waltham or Newton or so. Perhaps Dorcherster-Roxbury-Brookline-Brighton-Watertown Ctr.-Waltham
By moving the urban ring further-out you can make use of the fact that less traffic heads outbound in the morning. So through people heading outbound to move around the ring you take it out of the congested downtown core where there's already a plethora of connections and the urban ring in the core draws more people towards the centre making it even more of that congestion. Not only that, but the ring can have hub stations further out that better tie together bus routes further outside of Boston meaning less persons may need to travel to the downtown core to reach opposite ends of metro Boston.
 
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