Logan Airport Flights and Airlines Discussion

[adamh8297]

For a major capital city Berlin is still poorly served with mostly 2-stop connections from the US

Berlin is poorly served by USA carriers (only United). However, I would say the majority of the USA has 1-stop service available to Berlin.

1) airBerlin flies to ORD, JFK, and MIA from Berlin Tegel. It is important to note that not all of these are daily during off-peak times.

Serving ORD alone technically gets you the majority of the country 1-stop via codeshare with American Airlines.

2) UA flies Berlin-Newark but not daily during winter.

3) If your city has a London Heathrow, Paris, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, or Munich flight your connected one-stop.

 

[Oakley]

Direct Berlin would be great. More a tourist hot spot then business tho. That's why its probably been held back.

Berlin is becoming a big tech hub, one of the top hubs in Europe, but I don't see the demand for a non-stop route to Boston. Lufthansa would ferry the limited demand.

Negligible is a bit strong. Its 60 PDEW and growing though it is true their business model is based as a low cost European hub. They would never do any bizarre point to point route like Boston-Berlin/Warsaw. All flights touch Keflavik airport.

Someone else mentioned other Scandinavian points. Finnair did Boston-Stockholm seasonally in the past but lets be honest Europe is tapped for expansion into Boston. Turkish Airlines is the nail in the coffin on that one. Also Delta (on the Paris flight) and Lufthansa are upgauging aircraft on some Euro routes next summer.

What is next internationally? Hopefully not too much with the exception of a Caribbean destination and maybe Mexico City. Logan needs the new routes to mature!!

I agree with the need to slow the international expansion. If the rumors of a non-stop flight to Tel Aviv and China come true, that will be interesting. Quite honestly, outside of perhaps Mexico City and one or two more Caribbean destinations, I just don't see what else will come online in the next two or three years. I do see Korean Air coming to Boston once they get their 787s, but I think they got some time before they receive those.

 

[adamh8297]

Just looked at DOT (Table 6) Report.

Boston - Charleston SC traffic has increased greatly due to the non-stop service started by JetBlue. Good news for both cities.

All numbers in PDEW.

Q2 2011 - 165
Q2 2012 - 146
Q2 2013 - 261

Q1 2011- 96
Q1 2012 - 104
Q1 2013 - 140 (note that the service started in mid-February - can't wait to see 2014 numbers)

If the rumors of a non-stop flight to Tel Aviv and China come true, that will be interesting.

Boston-Beijing is not a rumor - its happening. All the noise about Tel Aviv is one-sided: Massport, the governor, and a couple local groups begging for it.

 

[Oakley]

Boston-Beijing is not a rumor - its happening. All the noise about Tel Aviv is one-sided: Massport, the governor, and a couple local groups begging for it.

It's a rumor until it's announced and they start selling tickets.

 

[mass88]

Just looked at DOT (Table 6) Report.

Boston - Charleston SC traffic has increased greatly due to the non-stop service started by JetBlue. Good news for both cities.

All numbers in PDEW.

Q2 2011 - 165
Q2 2012 - 146
Q2 2013 - 261

Q1 2011- 96
Q1 2012 - 104
Q1 2013 - 140 (note that the service started in mid-February - can't wait to see 2014 numbers)




Boston-Beijing is not a rumor - its happening. All the noise about Tel Aviv is one-sided: Massport, the governor, and a couple local groups begging for it.

Nice to see some good stimulation. Not too surprising either.

 

[whighlander]

It's a rumor until it's announced and they start selling tickets.

Oak -- the Gov is heading to Asia on a Trade Mission -- my guess is that Boston -- Beijing will be announced in connection with his trip -- either during or after

As for Berlin -- German gov continues to invest substantially in and around Berlin and to encourage private investment in and around Berlin as the old Commie Part of Germany is still trailing the former Federal Republic in economic development -- and there are social pressures

 

[adamh8297]

Oak -- the Gov is heading to Asia on a Trade Mission -- my guess is that Boston -- Beijing will be announced in connection with his trip -- either during or after

Its more than that trade mission - its the fact that Hainan has received approval from CAAC (China DOT who has a ridiculous policy for their own airlines of "one route one airline") and has submitted to DOT with a clear indication of serving the route in June.

This is a complete 180 of the CEO of Qatar Airlines blurting out that they will serve Atlanta, Boston, and Detroit and then winding up going to Philly and Miami.

 

[mass88]

Massport has released the October numbers for Logan.

Through October 25,576,802 passengers have flown through the airport. This represents a 3.2% increase over 2012.

October was a strong month posting an 8.8% increase in total passengers over October of 2012.

YTD international passenger numbers are up 4.0% at 3,934,294.

The Tokyo flight saw a slight dip in passengers for the month. Average load for October 2013 was roughly 88%.


It looks like Logan is going to have its busiest year ever in 2013. It's going to be interesting to see how the numbers fare next year when the flights to Istanbul and Dubai come online and hopefully the flight to Beijing will be starting up too.

 

[Oakley]

Its more than that trade mission - its the fact that Hainan has received approval from CAAC (China DOT who has a ridiculous policy for their own airlines of "one route one airline") and has submitted to DOT with a clear indication of serving the route in June.

This is a complete 180 of the CEO of Qatar Airlines blurting out that they will serve Atlanta, Boston, and Detroit and then winding up going to Philly and Miami.

I'm guessing Qatar got beat to the punch by Emirates and Turkish in Atlanta, Boston, and Detroit, and wanted to hook with the hubs of its alliance partners in US-AA.

 

[whighlander]

I'm guessing Qatar got beat to the punch by Emirates and Turkish in Atlanta, Boston, and Detroit, and wanted to hook with the hubs of its alliance partners in US-AA.

Oak -- Emirates is by far the leading airline in the entire Persian Gulf and one of the major buyers of Boeing all told -- They were the launch customer for the 777

 

[adamh8297]

I'm guessing Qatar got beat to the punch by Emirates and Turkish in Atlanta, Boston, and Detroit, and wanted to hook with the hubs of its alliance partners in US-AA.

Qatar actually had the advantage over Emirates with the perfect plane for Boston-Middle East: the 787-800. However, designs for their specific planes did not include cabin crew rest bunks which are needed for a Boston-Doha flight. They were probably waiting for their A350's to start Boston. They do have the smaller capacity 777-200LR (which Emirates will be using) that could have been used but they are 2-class only.

 

[omaja]

Oak -- Emirates is by far the leading airline in the entire Persian Gulf and one of the major buyers of Boeing all told -- They were the launch customer for the 777

This has nothing to do with Emirates launching BOS-DXB, though. Or Oakley's comment about Qatar being beaten to the punch in Boston by Emirates and Turkish. Based on the timing I'd say Oakley is 100 percent spot on: Qatar chose two destinations that Emirates is likely to add in the near future which also happen to be two of its partner's hubs. No need to add BOS-DOH when Emirates has BOS-DXB covered; and this way, Emirates is much less likely to start a route like PHL-DXB. MIA-DXB, however, I can see them adding regardless.

 

[bostoneophyte]

Chinese airline carrier Hainan Airlines has received federal approval to offer non-stop service from Boston's Logan Airport to Beijing starting in June 2014.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business...top-service/Uc9IAUixNgOZBUAmXmQ1nM/story.html

 

[adamh8297]

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business...top-service/Uc9IAUixNgOZBUAmXmQ1nM/story.html

Its now loaded - first flight 6/20/2014

HU481 PEK1350 – 1510BOS 787 x247
HU482 BOS1710 – 1850+1PEK 787 x247

http://airlineroute.net/2013/12/03/hu-bos-jun14/

Arrival and departure is a bit later than the NRT flight. I thought they would have similar schedules.

 

[mass88]

In a roughly 2 year span Logan has added non-stop flights to Tokyo, Panama City, Istanbul, Dubai and Beijing. That's pretty damn impressive.

 

[choo]

^It really is. We talk about Asia a lot obviously, and Korea/Singapore would be likely all we could add in the next 2. There is also Latin America, but the economic growth isn't as strong and routes just as long as people have pointed out. Turkish and Emirates give great Middle East, India and Africa coverage on top of BA and Lufthansa.

Logan has long been strong in directs to Western Europe, is there a potential surprise expansion to any growing Eastern Europe city that would be on the horizon? Warsaw? Moscow?

 

[whighlander]

^It really is. We talk about Asia a lot obviously, and Korea/Singapore would be likely all we could add in the next 2. There is also Latin America, but the economic growth isn't as strong and routes just as long as people have pointed out. Turkish and Emirates give great Middle East, India and Africa coverage on top of BA and Lufthansa.

Logan has long been strong in directs to Western Europe, is there a potential surprise expansion to any growing Eastern Europe city that would be on the horizon? Warsaw? Moscow?

Choo -- I would say that Warsaw is a possible in the next 5 years assuming:
1) Polish economy continues to grow
2) nothing untoward happpens to the east such as Ukraine, BeloRus or Rus itself

By the way correcting a popular misconception -- Poland is not in Eastern Europe -- just like Vienna and Budapest -- Warsaw is in Central Europe -- Poland rhetorically-- got shifted to Eastern Europe from Central when the Commines were in charge

If you look at a map -- Europe itself extends to the Urals in Russia a lot further east

 

[kmp1284]

I would not count on Warsaw happening within my lifetime, let alone in five years. LOT only serves New York and Chicago and no American carrier serves Poland. Currently, the market is around 40 passengers per day and Warsaw offers nothing that differentiates it from the other European hubs that Boston has service to. In fact, aside from Shannon(which is more O&D) it would be the smallest by a huge margin. Even assuming the market was to grow at a rate of 20% per year over five years, it would still not be viable for more reasons than I care to list. Not that it has a chance either but Moscow would have been the more logical argument.

 

[Arlington]

I would not count on Warsaw happening within my lifetime, let alone in five years. LOT only serves New York and Chicago and no American carrier serves Poland. Currently, the market is around 40 passengers per day and Warsaw offers nothing that differentiates it from the other European hubs that Boston has service to. In fact, aside from Shannon(which is more O&D) it would be the smallest by a huge margin. Even assuming the market was to grow at a rate of 20% per year over five years, it would still not be viable for more reasons than I care to list. Not that it has a chance either but Moscow would have been the more logical argument.

Agreed. For LOT it takes all of Star Alliance, big ethnic population, and big local market to make CHI and NYC work, and there's really no place else for them to go in the US, except, maybe, LAX, or you might have gotten a PHL if it had stayed in Star Alliance.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._cities_with_large_Polish-American_populations

These other recent routes seem to be happening because of connecting opportunities to Asia and Latin America, and BOS may have maxed out for a while.

 

[FenwayResident]

What are the PPD numbers for South American markets? Sao Paulo, Rio, and Buenos Aires are the biggest markets, but there's very little hub potential there.