Logan Airport Flights and Airlines Discussion

[Oakley]

I wonder if moves into adding a first-class cabin on select routes-of they are brought onto Boston routes-will help in terms of competing with the full-service carriers and increase profitability in Boston.

 

[dshoost88]

Is 2011 when jetBlue financed/constructed the Terminal C security expansion? If that's the case, then that decline is understandable.

 

[adamh8297]

Southwest is supposed to be releasing their new DAL - Love Field schedule for the fall (September) on Monday. I wonder if we'll see some DAL-BOS non-stop flights.

I couldn't find the link but some airline analyst said there's a 90 percent chance they are launching DAL-BOS.

DAL-LGA has been mentioned by Southwest Management. I'll be surprised if Boston isn't on the list honestly.

I sure would like to see JetBlue get access to Love Field when AA's gates there come up for sale (though, in that case, Delta is said to be hard to outbid). BOS-DAL and JFK-DAL and LGB-DAL and FLL-DAL would be great JetBlue markets

Delta has already announced service from most of their hubs/focus cities as well. They want to use DAL as much as possible. Ironically they used to hub at Dallas-Fort Worth.

Is 2011 when jetBlue financed/constructed the Terminal C security expansion? If that's the case, then that decline is understandable.

2011 wasn't the greatest year economically compared to 2012 and 2013.

Compare the three main stock market averages in US. http://www.1stock1.com/1stock1_142.htm

 

[Arlington]

Delta has already announced service from most of their hubs/focus cities as well. They want to use DAL as much as possible. Ironically they used to hub at Dallas-Fort Worth

Everything I've seen is while Delta is offering DAL flights for sale, they are gambling/presuming that they will be the winner of the gate auction, or be able to get access to gates at Love. But, technically, I can dream of DAL on service on JetBlue because, when it comes down to it, Delta has not actually secured (yet) the gates it needs at Love Field.

Delta's residual loyalty in the DFW Metroplex and across all of DFW's southern hinterlands probably allows them to forecast that they can afford to pay more for AA's DAL (airport) gates than JetBlue could.

JetBlue complained the loudest at the undoing of the Wright Amendment, but at the time, JetBlue was too small/young (and too "New York") to have any leverage at leaving space for new entrants. So it was all brokered as Dallas-vs-FtWorth / AA vs Southwest intramural Texas deal...to the detriment of the flying public.

 

[LH421]

BOS made a profit every year EXCEPT for 2011 - check slide 12 of 2013 Analyst Day.

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/Externa...9NDk4MjIyfENoaWxkSUQ9NTM3NjcwfFR5cGU9MQ==&t=1

This quarter may be a different story due to weather though.

Thanks for the correction and the link. I seem to recall statements from their CFO stating otherwise, perhaps they make most of their money in the summer (like many markets) and break even/suffer loses in the winter?

 

[LH421]

Is 2011 when jetBlue financed/constructed the Terminal C security expansion? If that's the case, then that decline is understandable.

Those costs would be capitalized-not expensed under US GAAP so it wouldn't hit the P&L directly.

 

[Arlington]

Southwest made its announcement, and DAL-BOS is not on Southwest's list from DAL. In the Northeast, its just the super-premium DCA and LGA, and the "safe" hub at BWI.

If there is to be a DAL-BOS flight, its going to have to be on JetBlue for now. BOS got no Love from Delta and just did hubs and LGA on its "provisional" schedule. AA can't fly it. UA has no reason to. Virgin America would be insane to try.

And in today's announcement, Southwest did not have BOS on its post-Wright list for Oct/Nov 2014. Clearly Southwest can construct good one-stop options from DAL to BOS via cities now served by both: Kansas City, STL, Nashville, ATL, and BWI. I wouldn't be surprised to see 5 decent 1-connection/1-stop options per day.

Southwest is supposed to be releasing their new DAL - Love Field schedule for the fall (September) on Monday. I wonder if we'll see some DAL-BOS non-stop flights.

 

[adamh8297]

Southwest made its announcement, and DAL-BOS is not on Southwest's list from DAL. In the Northeast, its just the super-premium DCA and LGA, and the "safe" hub at BWI.

If there is to be a DAL-BOS flight, its going to have to be on JetBlue for now.

[/img]

Southwest could start it next year. I'm surprised there's nothing to the Bay Area as well from Dallas Love.

 

[Arlington]

Southwest could start it next year. I'm surprised there's nothing to the Bay Area as well from Dallas Love.

I'm sure Southwest is anticipating withering competition from the AA DFW hub, and so it looks like they are playing it safe--and ensuring that every new city from DAL gets its share of connecting potential. So PHX and DEN will be helped by 1 stops, to the whole Northwest (down to the Bay Area) and BNA and STL will, I"m sure, be bolstered by being the stopover for BOS and PHL.

I'm sure it gives Southwest pause to consider that US was able to chase Southwest out of BOS-PHL, but that JetBlue seems, so far, to have sufficient power in BOS to make it work.

Especially given BOS-DAL's long stage length and BOS strength (and that Delta took a pass on it) seems like it is JetBlue's for the taking if they can find the gates.

 

[omaja]

If this first initial push outside the Wright Amendment boundaries proves successful, I wouldn't be surprised if we see Southwest axe a few frequencies on routes like DAL-Wichita/Tulsa/Midland/El Paso/Albuquerque/Little Rock in favor of a few nonstops to Boston/San Francisco/Seattle/Philadelphia.

But like Arlington said, there are going to be so many one stop options via ATL/BWI/MDW/STL/BNA/HOU/STL. Might not be worth it for Southwest to battle AA/US's juggernaut schedule on the likes of DFW-BOS/PHL and JetBlue's massive presence in BOS.

 

[Arlington]

If this first initial push outside the Wright Amendment boundaries proves successful, I wouldn't be surprised if we see Southwest axe a few frequencies on routes like DAL-Wichita/Tulsa/Midland/El Paso/Albuquerque/Little Rock in favor of a few nonstops to Boston/San Francisco/Seattle/Philadelphia.

But like Arlington said, there are going to be so many one stop options via ATL/BWI/MDW/STL/BNA/HOU/STL. Might not be worth it for Southwest to battle AA/US's juggernaut schedule on the likes of DFW-BOS/PHL and JetBlue's massive presence in BOS.

Maybe I'm wrong, though. Apparently Southwest still has a little bit of slack that will allow them to add flights at DAL without necessarily axing old "intra-Wright" flights, so maybe we will see BOS eventually--or at least that DAL-BOS won't come at the cost of reduced feed or reduced flying elsewhere at DAL. And maybe they could make a few nonstops to places like SFO, OAK, and BOS work mixed in with those 1-stop options.

Here's a nice blurb that lays it out

With only 20 gates available in the new [Dallas Love Field] terminal the total capacity for flights [at DAL] will decrease slightly as the number of possible destinations grows. Southwest controls 16 of those gates and will operate approximately 140 daily flights with the new routes in place, up from 127 daily departures today. CEO Gary Kelly, speaking at the press conference announcing the new routes, indicated that the airline could peak at about 160 daily departures given the gate constraints.

(from Wandering Aramean Bog)

So they've still got 20 departures to play with from DAL. Maybe some will have to be thrown into bolster routes like DAL-LAX, but they could still try to sneak 2x to each of BOS, PHL, SFO, OAK. Going hub-to-hub vs DFW, they're probably going to want to max everything out just for the feed. Its an interesting question which additional cities will be net winners.

 

[adamh8297]

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/homepage/20140205_JetBlue_profits_on_Boston-Phila__route.html

Arlington - you maybe onto something with Southwest being a bit hesitant on routes that JetBlue serves. Its probably a reason why they haven't dabbled in Florida too much since the AirTran merger.

 

[omaja]

Maybe I'm wrong, though. Apparently Southwest still has a little bit of slack that will allow them to add flights at DAL without necessarily axing old "intra-Wright" flights, so maybe we will see BOS eventually--or at least that DAL-BOS won't come at the cost of reduced feed or reduced flying elsewhere at DAL. And maybe they could make a few nonstops to places like SFO, OAK, and BOS work mixed in with those 1-stop options.

Here's a nice blurb that lays it out

(from Wandering Aramean Bog)

So they've still got 20 departures to play with from DAL. Maybe some will have to be thrown into bolster routes like DAL-LAX, but they could still try to sneak 2x to each of BOS, PHL, SFO, OAK. Going hub-to-hub vs DFW, they're probably going to want to max everything out just for the feed. Its an interesting question which additional cities will be net winners.

Of their top ten destinations served, though, only LAS has more than 10 flights per gate per day. The average is around 8. What Kelly is quoted as having said is entirely true - they could even go as high as 12 flights per gate per day, if they pushed their scheduling to the max. My guess is that they may have the operation optimized, to an extent, for connections, limiting the flexibility with gates somewhat.

It'll be interesting to see how they work that all out.

 

[stellarfun]

JetBlue's plans for Boston detailed.

http://bostonherald.com/business/business_markets/2014/02/jetblue_flying_higher_at_logan

Globe story similar, but much of it behind the paywall.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business...ears-boston/hPfqcV69JwfsZOk88oY9uI/story.html

No mention of when the connector between C and E will be done. The shorter connector between the two sides of B seems to be nearly done.

 

[atlantaden]

The new Millenium Place Condo building shows up beautifully as a background to the Jet Blue CEO in the Herald article! Jet Blue is doing great things at Logan and it's new partnerships with the foreign carriers is just what is needed to really boost the international numbers flying in/out of Logan.

 

[adamh8297]

JetBlue's plans for Boston detailed.

http://bostonherald.com/business/business_markets/2014/02/jetblue_flying_higher_at_logan

Globe story similar, but much of it behind the paywall.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business...ears-boston/hPfqcV69JwfsZOk88oY9uI/story.html

No mention of when the connector between C and E will be done. The shorter connector between the two sides of B seems to be nearly done.

The article mentions Jetblue will be feeding (at least via interline) the Beijing flight on Hainan along with Iberia's Madrid flight as well.

It was confirmed from a JetBlue employee (it was announced internally) on another forum. We should know the details soon hopefully.

 

[adamh8297]

Any predictions for 2014?

I'm predicting that there will not be a repeat of announced international service like we had in 2013.

One exception is the WOW air service to Iceland that DOT just approved and may be announced shortly.

The Low Cost WOW Air is not coming to Boston this year.

http://www.routes-news.com/news/1-news/2357-wow-puts-boston-plans-on-ice

It sounds a bit political since they could not get the "times" they wanted at Keflavik Airport in Iceland.

 

[mass88]

http://bostonherald.com/business/real_estate/2014/02/stephanie_s_to_land_at_logan


Stephanie's is coming to Terminal B. Scheduled to open in April.

 

[whighlander]

JetBlue's plans for Boston detailed.

http://bostonherald.com/business/business_markets/2014/02/jetblue_flying_higher_at_logan

Globe story similar, but much of it behind the paywall.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business...ears-boston/hPfqcV69JwfsZOk88oY9uI/story.html

No mention of when the connector between C and E will be done. The shorter connector between the two sides of B seems to be nearly done.

Stel -- from a publicly available [although obscure] Massport powerpoint presented to Logan's present and prospective Airlines [about March 2013] about proposed changes to the Passenger Facility Charge part of the funding for the Capital Budget ["Notification of Intent to file a New Passenger Facility Charge Application and Amend Certain Prior PFC Approvals"]:

PFC Project 50: Terminals C&E and Gate 40
Connectors
 Justification & significant contribution:
– Provides post security connectivity between all of Logan’s Terminal C and E gates
– Enhances Massport’s ability to quickly and affordably relocate airlines between gates
when they merge, expand and contract
 Schedule:
– Schedule to begin in February 2014
– Scheduled to be completed by February 2015
 Cost :
– PFC Debt Funded Capital Costs $ 19,215,000
– PFC Funded Financing & Interest $ 5,380,200
– Total PFC Funded Costs: $ 24,595,200

– MPA Bonds: $ 25,785,000
– Total Project Cost: $ 50,380,200

similar information on the Terminal B -- Pier a A to Pier B connector:

PFC Project 54: Renovation & Improvements at
Terminal B
 Justification & significant contribution:
– Increased air system capacity by constructing larger gate and holdroom facilities.
– Enhanced competition by providing open gates for Terminal C and new carriers,
allowing enhanced competition at the Airport.

 Schedule:
– Began in June 2012
– Scheduled to be completed by May 2014
 Cost :
– PFC Funded Principal Costs $ 44,000,000
– PFC Funded Financing Costs $ 12,320,000
– Total PFC Expected Costs: $ 56,320,000

– MPA Bonds: $ 63,372,397
– Total Project Cost: $119,692,397

so even though the Terminal B project is considerably larger in physical and fiscal scope it will be done in a few months -- the other one wont be done for another year

 

[Equilibria]

so even though the Terminal B project is considerably larger in physical and fiscal scope it will be done in a few months -- the other one wont be done for another year

Umm... the part where it's beginning this month might have something to do with that...