Logan Airport Flights and Airlines Discussion

London and Paris on Norwegian are around $335 r/t this fall. Tough to beat that.
 
novacat said:
Gotcha - I see what you were saying. I think it's a broader discussion on resource allocation. There's a whole debate you could have about diverting air related funding to build a true high speed network on the east coast corridor so that the service becomes compelling enough to take market share from the regional flights to free up space. In hypothetical world, if you had Boston to DC in Japanese style high speed rail, you'd be bananas to want to fly to NY, Philly or DC. Obviously that would clear a massive amount of slots for take off and landing that could be allocated to other destinations not serviced by train. The problem has always been the insane land acquisition costs to make this happen and the fact that our only regional rail service is probably the most poorly managed in the western world. People always underestimate the land acquisition costs (we have eminent domain but you still have to pay "fair" value).

Hmmm....maybe that Hyperloop running on top of 95 would do the trick!
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Novacat -- the basic premise is flawed
Logan flight operations are significantly down from the peak [prior to 9/11/2001].
Gates are available in several terminals
There a re more than enough takeoff and landing slots [except at some peaks]

So -- why would you want to make people have to deal with all of the issues associated with rail --- when they can fly. The only major market exception is BOS-NYC where when you take into account the total time -- center city to center city -- air and rail are competitive mostly because of the effort in getting to the airports serving NYC from Manhattan
 
Rail is also marginally competive in BOS-PHL, particularly when AA/US was successfully monopolizing (after Southwest pulled out and before JetBlue entered) BOS-PHL on Amtrak had something like a +50% / -30% swing when fares spiked upon Southwest's exit and fell on JetBlue's entry.

PHL is also a market where security time at the airport is a notable % of trip time.

And wasn't a lot of 2001's traffic prop flights from apron space (Cape Air as CO* at A and BizEx at B) that has since been built upon?
 
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Arlington said:
Rail is also marginally competive in BOS-PHL, particularly when AA/US was successfully monopolizing (after Southwest pulled out and before JetBlue entered) BOS-PHL on Amtrak had something like a +50% / -30% swing when fares spiked upon Southwest's exit and fell on JetBlue's entry.

PHL is also a market where security time at the airport is a notable % of trip time.

And wasn't a lot of 2001's traffic prop flights from apron space (Cape Air as CO* at A and BizEx at B) that has since been built upon?
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Arlington -- yes that era featured a lot of turboprops for the subs of the majors such as American Eagle and the various Expresses

However, while they didn't take-up Jet Bridge-gates they still queued up for takeoffs with the bigger but-still single isle planes such as MD-80's and 727s

Today, in part due to the low cost point-to-point carriers growth [e.g. Jet Blue] there are a lot less of the secondaries flying into regional hubs

Net result is that there is no current shortage of any general purpose gates at Logan, nor landing or take-off slots

What is needed at Logan is more flexibility in the terminals to change configurations around as carriers grow and decline, etc. The improvements within the terminals needs to be supported by better connectivity both before and after security between the terminals.

Of course the situation with the super-big [e.g. A-380, B-747-8i] and super long-haul [e.g. B-787-9, B777-200ER, A340-500] internationals are a special case -- Massport is currently addressing these needs with current construction and advanced planning for Terminal E
 
mass88 said:
Good to know. This seems to be the one project going on in Boston right now that's very tough to get shots of.
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Mass -- I was through Logan a week or so ago and took some pix from the inside of Term E [can't see much] and some from the top of the new section of Central parking [can see one corner] plus excellent view of Central Power HVAC Plant

Note for anything but the E-enhancements the top [level 10] of the new Central Parking extension provides a great vantage point

However, the best view of the Terminal E A-380 work is probably from the Silver Line heading around the loop ramps on the way toward the Ted Williams Tunnel. I was on the wrong side of the bus but I caught a fairly nice view over my shoulder.
 
atlantaden said:
Is that from Logan?
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Yes. You can book through Norewegian.com (if you click Norway as your home country, fares are lower, but others have said it's risky to do that). Google flights shows $335 for most of October, November and December.

*Edit- London (Gatwick) is on Norwegian and it's direct. Paris is on WOW via KEF.
 
And... cork has already been removed from the schedule. Delta plans on cutting various frequencies this winter. My summary from airliners.net.
 
Interesting upgauge is that United will use the domestically-configured 777-200 on the 6:30PM flight to SFO this fall. Fun add to the B concourse!
 
I'm glad somebody is using terminal Bs widebody capabilities
 
Airbus stated today its slowing A380 production to one plane a month. Doesn't look like new orders are on the horizon, so I think once existing orders are delivered, production will end. If it wasn't for Emirates, production might never have started. In any event, three A380 gates at Logan is at least one too many.
 
stellarfun said:
Airbus stated today its slowing A380 production to one plane a month. Doesn't look like new orders are on the horizon, so I think once existing orders are delivered, production will end. If it wasn't for Emirates, production might never have started. In any event, three A380 gates at Logan is at least one too many.
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Not surprising. Not a single customer in North America, South America, or Africa. As you stated, Emirates saved the entire project - without them it would have be a big failure for Airbus.

I don't believe Logan has any gates with multiple jet bridges, right? At the very least, can the 380 gates allow airlines to board with 2 jet bridges? That would make boarding a 744, 77W, 772, etc. easier.

whighlander said:
Mass -- I was through Logan a week or so ago and took some pix from the inside of Term E [can't see much] and some from the top of the new section of Central parking [can see one corner] plus excellent view of Central Power HVAC Plant

Note for anything but the E-enhancements the top [level 10] of the new Central Parking extension provides a great vantage point

However, the best view of the Terminal E A-380 work is probably from the Silver Line heading around the loop ramps on the way toward the Ted Williams Tunnel. I was on the wrong side of the bus but I caught a fairly nice view over my shoulder.
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I saw the shots - they're great.
 
stellarfun said:
Airbus stated today its slowing A380 production to one plane a month. Doesn't look like new orders are on the horizon, so I think once existing orders are delivered, production will end. If it wasn't for Emirates, production might never have started. In any event, three A380 gates at Logan is at least one too many.
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Regardless of how slowly they make A380s, that doesn't change the fact that British Airways, Lufthansa & Emirates are beginning service with wide wing-span aircraft to Boston. The 3 gates are such because there's one gate for each airline and the clubs for each allow direct boarding to the specific gate.

mass88 said:
At the very least, can the 380 gates allow airlines to board with 2 jet bridges? That would make boarding a 744, 77W, 772, etc. easier.
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Yes. The expansion technically isn't all about the A380, but rather "Group VI" aircraft which includes both the A380 & the 747-8.

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But the 747-8 is still a two-jetways-on-the-main-deck setup, right?

Refresh my memory: Logan's E will be able to do the 3-jetway / 2-main + 1 upper deck thing, but only on A380s?
 
Undelivered A380 orders for airlines serving Boston:

Air France (2)
Emirates (61)
Qatar (4)
Virgin Atlantic (6) Though as Virgin Atlantic has ordered A350s, doubtful that it will have any A380s.

Lufthansa has 14 A380s, and BA 12. I'm skeptical, over the long term, that either of these airlines will serve Boston with A380s. BA currently flies to IAD, LAX, MIA, SFO, and Vancouver with A380s.

On the link below, I read that United is abandoning JFK for EWR, which could free gates at Terminal 7 at JFK for BA A380 service.
https://www.runwaygirlnetwork.com/2...donment-of-jfk-leaves-ba-opportunities-in-t7/

^^^ This might explain why UA Triple 7s will be appearing at BOS.
 
stellarfun said:
Lufthansa has 14 A380s, and BA 12. I'm skeptical, over the long term, that either of these airlines will serve Boston with A380s. BA currently flies to IAD, LAX, MIA, SFO, and Vancouver with A380s.
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BA is starting A380 to BOS in February. For the near future, they don't have any direct replacement for the 747-400s so we will definitely see some A380 action here. Emirates with the A380 is almost a given. Lufthansa probably won't send A380s but will still send 747-8s, which can use the expanded gates.
 
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