MA Casino Developments

Wynn casino in Everett will be packed. The state, mass highway, mbta and the surrounding areas need to start discussing a well planned transit solution for everybody. At this point the mbta needs to upgrade the rails anyways so this is a good opportunity to justify a massive upgrade.

To all the people on this board that doesn't understand the traffic scenario in this area, Santilli circle to Wellington and 99 are complete nightmares for drivers. A billion dollar casino for the area will make the area grid lock most of the day going in and out of Everett. There is lot of industry that goes through 99. So I would love to hear real solutions for this scenario?

Mbta will solve 25 or 30% traffic with an upgrade but what about the roads?
 
TheRifleman said:
Wynn casino in Everett will be packed. The state, mass highway, mbta and the surrounding areas need to start discussing a well planned transit solution for everybody. At this point the mbta needs to upgrade the rails anyways so this is a good opportunity to justify a massive upgrade.

To all the people on this board that doesn't understand the traffic scenario in this area, Santilli circle to Wellington and 99 are complete nightmares for drivers. A billion dollar casino for the area will make the area grid lock most of the day going in and out of Everett. There is lot of industry that goes through 99. So I would love to hear real solutions for this scenario?
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I'd love to hear more than real hysteria in the setup question. The only numbers I see you providing are "billion" (as the Casino price) and 99 (a route number).

First, how about you provide real numbers for:
"will be packed"....with how many people...at what hours?
"good opportunity to justify a massive upgradge" how many $ are justified?
"complete nightmare for drivers"...at what hours ? (Rush hour...which is not "Casino" rush)
"grid lock most of the day going in and out of Everett" maybe use highway engineering terms? Traffic volumes? Level of service?

As noted above, the hotel is small, and any Casino's emphasis is on getting *dollars* through the front door, not necessarily people. An there's a natural midday / evening / weekend pattern so those people don't commute to a Casino at rush times. It is a leisure activity.
 
Not to cloud this discussion with facts, but:
http://massgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/IEB-Report-Wynn-MA-LLC.pdf

...a Host Agreement was entered into between Wynn MA and the City of Everett on April 19 2013 the terms of which generally call for pre-opening payments of $30m, property tax payments starting at $20m, community-impact payments of $5m, development payments of $250k; theh oppertunity to host events at local venues periodically, a good faith effort at local procurement, and various other improvements for the City of Everett to include streets, shuttle service and environmental remediation
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$30m to Everett "for nothing" and $20m in real estate taxes thereafter, plus shuttles, plus all the street-and-brownfield fixup seems like about all you can expect on a $1.2b casino (you were thinking you could add 50% to his costs and still have him come?)

Everett gets:

- 150,000 sq ft Casino
- 2,500 - 3,000 slot machines
- 100 - 150 table games

.the Wynn brand and large exsting marketing and database will be utilized aggressively cross-market the Massachusetts property
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(i.e. he already knows where to send the limos and shuttles.

THe applicant has indicated a target of between 15,000 and 20,000 visitors per day to the property.
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Aha! A traffic number! Note that the TD Garden holds 17,565, so Wynn is adding (on peak days) about 1 "Garden worth" of round trips

But here's the key: there's no tipoff time at a Casino, and no final buzzer. The Garden's 17k basically arrive in the hour before a game and depart in the hour after--at worst creating 17,000 trips per hour. (I suspect many try to time it more like 30 mins before and 30 mins after, pushing your hourly trips well above 20k and creating congestion)

If the Casino's visitors were simply spread across 3.5 arrival hours (5 to 8:30) and 3.5 departure hours (8:30 to Midnight), the traffic volume is less than *1/3* a Garden--and congestion is non-linear (it builds until a straw breaks the highway's back). So an extra 6,000 trips per hour is easily handled with the 'street improvements' and shuttle buses--Wynn doesn't want his patrons caught in traffic either.

But its lower than that. Realize that casino goers don't like fighting traffic any more than you do. The small number of day trippers are highly likely to time their morning trip for post-rush and/or take a shuttle sent to get them.
 
Real numbers? Have you ever driven though the area?
Both morning & evening commutes have become a nightmare for all the areas associated with Wynn casino location.
Sullivan square
Wellington circle
99
Santilli circle
Broadway and main st. Everett.
Traffic has been unbearable in these areas at rush hour. Now factor in an casino with some entertainment on the outer skirts of boston?

I just want to hear the plan what is going to relieve these areas of the traffic scenario?
The real numbers and the plan should be coming from mass highway, state, and surrounding studies from the towns and city leaders.
 
TheRifleman said:
Both morning & evening commutes have become a nightmare for all the areas associated with Wynn casino location....Traffic has been unbearable in these areas at rush hour. Now factor in an casino with some entertainment on the outer skirts of boston?
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If we were talking IKEA or a Megachurch that drew 20,000 people on Saturday and Sunday, you'd see how silly it is for you to be talking how those land uses were somehow relevant to M-F AM and PM rush.

Similarly, if you had a giant hospital whose shifts ran 0700-1500, 1500-2300, 2300-0700, you'd see that no matter how big it was, it is not generating traffic at a "rush" time ('cept for a teensy bit of friction in the 6:30 to 7:30am, which is still not when regular AM traffic bogs down).

{I have no doubt that Boston's hospitals (and construction workers) generate a lot of the 6am-7am traffic, and the 2:30 to 3:30 traffic that we see, but they never quite bring things to a stop the way "office" traffic does at 8:30 and 5:30}

Timing is everything.

Now produce any evidence that Casinos generate traffic during the rush hour you complain of. I'm sure there is *some* traffic at those times, but the key is showing when and to what extent it would make the office rush worse.

And then consider whether it can be mitigated with streetwork, shuttles, $30m "up front" and some portion of Everett
s $20m per year. (probably) and whether you're owed a whole lot more than that (sure, go ahead and ask).
 
“To look across the river and see that huge monstrosity [Wynn Everett Casino and marina] and its impact on sightlines and such seems to be to be very solid reasons that the administration has to file an appeal,” said Aldermen President Bill White, pointing out the proposed casino would be right across the river from Somerville’s developing Assembly Row.
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Wicked Local Story
"Solid reasons" eh, Alderman White? LOL! It is grotesque that they think anyone would believe that this is about "sightlines" and not a plain old shakedown of Wynn.

A true view can be found in Google Streetview

Here, roughly, is the unspoiled splendor which the Casino will impact
800px-Mystic_Generating_Station%2C_Everett_MA.jpg
 
Arlington said:
If we were talking IKEA or a Megachurch that drew 20,000 people on Saturday and Sunday, you'd see how silly it is for you to be talking how those land uses were somehow relevant to M-F AM and PM rush.

Similarly, if you had a giant hospital whose shifts ran 0700-1500, 1500-2300, 2300-0700, you'd see that no matter how big it was, it is not generating traffic at a "rush" time ('cept for a teensy bit of friction in the 6:30 to 7:30am, which is still not when regular AM traffic bogs down).

{I have no doubt that Boston's hospitals (and construction workers) generate a lot of the 6am-7am traffic, and the 2:30 to 3:30 traffic that we see, but they never quite bring things to a stop the way "office" traffic does at 8:30 and 5:30}

Timing is everything.

Now produce any evidence that Casinos generate traffic during the rush hour you complain of. I'm sure there is *some* traffic at those times, but the key is showing when and to what extent it would make the office rush worse.

And then consider whether it can be mitigated with streetwork, shuttles, $30m "up front" and some portion of Everett
s $20m per year. (probably) and whether you're owed a whole lot more than that (sure, go ahead and ask).
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It is not only the rush hour traffic -- it is pretty much constant. Try driving to the Target in Everett on a Saturday. You have 100k+ people who rely on those shopping plazas and not all of them take public transportation. Now add this to the outlet plaza that is to be Assembly Square.

** And on top of that, those circles are not the easiest to navigate. Which will lead to more congestion from people cutting across three lanes to get their gamble on.

Why is it that people in this forum have a difficulty grasping the fact that people still drive and depend on cars?
 
akmags said:
It is not only the rush hour traffic -- it is pretty much constant. Try driving to the Target in Everett on a Saturday. You have 100k+ people who rely on those shopping plazas and not all of them take public transportation. Now add this to the outlet plaza that is to be Assembly Square.

Why is it that people in this forum have a difficulty grasping the fact that people still drive and depend on cars?
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I'm playing this one right down the middle, actually:

Transit is important but can be tied in by shuttle or obviated by direct limo/shuttle to places were potential gamblers will congregate. The pushback there was that not enough was being done for transit.

There's also pushback that not enough is being done for cars. Cars are a key mode for Wynn too, just not a the same time they are for office workers in cars. As you note, Saturday is the busiest auto-trip day of the week, it is true, but note how it is also spread out.

But a lot of that car traffic--from North, West and South-- is going to come I-93 to 99 and miss the Santilli entirely. A minority--from the small fraction of the metro area not on 93 or 95--will be coming down Route 1, and they are going to gunk up the Revere Beach Parkway (Rt 16) between 1 and 99. I'm thinking that's what the $30m to Everett and "Streetwork" promised by Wynn will have to address.
 
Arlington said:
I'm playing this one right down the middle, actually:

Transit is important but can be tied in by shuttle or obviated by direct limo/shuttle to places were potential gamblers will congregate. The pushback there was that not enough was being done for transit.
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The conceptual problem with that logic is that it bears little relation to how Wynn wants his casino to operate. Remember: He still has to win over the MA authorities in competition with Suffolk Downs, which is located in "Boston", is close to the airport, and has pretty direct Blue Line access. The way Wynn wins this is by selling the site - he has a waterfront location in need of remediation in a down-and-out town in need of help.

Whatever his true intentions, he can't possibly argue that he'll be busing everyone in to his isolated island of a site in the middle of an industrial wasteland. If he actually executes that, his casino will turn into Atlantic City in Everett - an isolated gated community of gambling which no one visits for any other purpose. Sure the traffic might work out OK, but this is a destination resort and entertainment hub he needs to sell. He wants people to come to give him money, but he needs to at least claim that people will come for concerts and restaurants.

No one is riding a Wynn shuttle bus to go to dinner. Nobody. Not with Assembly Square right across the river with its high-end shopping and restaurants. Wynn needs his project to tie in across the river to that development, because the alternative is facing an LNG port or facing inward, and neither of those will win the bid.

Am I arguing for rapid transit running to this thing? Of course not, at least - not for this development alone. A ped bridge over the river to Assembly Square, however, will make Wynn's development an integrated part of that PR machine and allow those shopping over there to perhaps eat at his place. It's not just about transit access, it's about the fact that if you want to built an entertainment palace in a modern city you need to integrate it with SOMETHING.
 
"RT 99 from sullivan to everett is a disaster to drive on"

No shit.

-The alford st bridge replacement has more than halved the roads capacity
-demolition of the sullivan overpass has forced nearly double the traffic through the sullivan rotary than it was designed for
-the sullivan underpass was closed until a few months ago, and even though its reopened its only one lane, with a traffic light at the end of it

All of these factors are being mitigated within the coming years. The only other issue is the RT16 - RT99 rotary (santili circle?). One rotary to be replaced / upgraded. I would argue RT16 should be rebuilt from RT1 to RT99 as well, as a 4 lane limited access w/ frontage roads. Better traffic light coordination could also help in the short term. But that's more for rush hour / general sanity than casino traffic.

Also most of the traffic will be coming via 93 and Rutherford ave, only a fraction will arrive from the everett direction. So the RT16 clusterfuck will not be effected much.

The important thing is that a lot of the traffic is due to unmitigated demolition and ongoing construction, not native road capacity. Put away the torches and pitchforks, take note of the amount of orange cones. Its already a thousand times better with the underpass reopened, once sullivan is rebuilt and the bridge is done it will be a non-issue.
 
aaaaaa said:
I kind of dig it. It has a bit of a Twin Peaks mill flavor. :)

XPNpULf.jpg
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Oh good, I'm not the only one that actually thought that powerplant looks kinda nice from that angle. Except for the part in the middle, too drab.
 
How strange. The entire Wicked Local story is about a 400+ foot 40-story tower in Everett. That is ridiculous! The tallest hotels in Boston are only 38 stories (Marriott [382'] & Westin [396'] Copley Place).
 
I hate to wade into this debate but there is SO much misinformation...

There is a real plan proposed to fix this area which includes:

1) Eliminating Santelli Circle. Gone. Replaced by a flyover. Hurray!
2) DOUBLING the lane capacity in/out of Sweetzer Circle. DOUBLE.
3) Transforming Broadway from an industrial strip into a grand boulevard. With sidewalks.
4) $upporting the total reconstruction of Sullivan Square. A plan that's 20 years old and has gone nowhere to date and will continue to go nowhere without this development.

Consider when Somerville permitted their massive discount factory outlet mall attached to the giant KMart plaza... how on earth did they get away with not fixing the traffic in that area? They used taxpayer money to build their driveways, but did nothing to the arteries that bring people there.

If the area is a traffic nightmare, the resort will fail. Thus the massive expenditure on traffic improvements. The Wall Street developers of the Assembly discount factory outlet mall never worried about this because they were using YOUR tax money to build THEIR investment.

The clientele of the discount factory outlet mall might wait an extra 30 minutes in traffic to get a discounted Old Navy hoodie, but the crowd dining on $100 steaks at The Wynn will not choose to wait in extra traffic. So the traffic must be fixed.
 
Both locations cannot handle the traffic scenario. The casino will be packed no matter if there is traffic problems or not. Will the casino generate 20,000 visitors? Mass is 33% of ct casino revenue.
The real problem is what effects this has on the surrounding areas. Everybody has a stake in these casinos not just revere and Everett residents.

The traffic is awful and only become worse with a billion dollar casino for the everyday commuters which will probably effect Everett, Somerville, revere, Lynn, Medford, charlestown, Winthrop, e.boston chelsea, malden, along with the outer suburbs that use 93 on a daily basis.

The infrastructure is outdated. The only positive thing Everett has going for it is the orange line connection.

The state, cities, Wynn, mbta need a visible plan.

Monsanto site would have been good for residents building if the site was not contaminated and I'm not sure why the EPA and our leaders would give this corporation a green light to leave the land this polluted especially when rents are so high for city living.
 
Mike02125 said:
Consider when Somerville permitted their massive discount factory outlet mall attached to the giant KMart plaza... how on earth did they get away with not fixing the traffic in that area?
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They are fixing it, by adding an Orange Line station. It should open some time this summer.
 
Ron Newman said:
They are fixing it, by adding an Orange Line station. It should open some time this summer.
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That's Fed & State money. Somerville's contribution was basically the upzoning, so the point stands: Somerville loaded itself up with density and property taxes and stiffed the state with the transport bill (and unlike a casino, Assembly Row's residences and offices will generate their peak trips at exactly the hours--rush hours--when new trips are most painful/costly to accommodate).

--------

Meanwhile this huge, slow loading PDF may be the source of some of the erroneous info on Wynn's Casino hight. It shows the FAA-imposed limits on height:
https://www.massport.com/media/11778/BOS_COMPOSITE_Ver2pt0_dec201_small.pdf

Wynn's site has an FAA imposed max between 350' and 400', so maybe that's where the "up to 400'" came from, even though Wynn is talking 19 stories.

Also note how Wonderland, across the track itself, is limited in the 125' to 200' height (which is plenty), but some of the "back stables" could go into the 300's
 
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