MA Casino Developments

Funny you should mention that. I'm no fan of casinos, certainly no fan of casinos coming to MA at either location.

That said, I thought the Wynn pair in Las Vegas were striking.

Wynn-Las-Vegas-Encore-Las-Vegas.jpg
 
Shepard said:
Marina Bay in Singapore?

mbaysands.jpg


I think the more interesting question is whether there are purpose-built casinos in an urban setting that contribute positively to the urban fabric, especially at street level?
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^^Thanks, and yes, that is a better question.
 
Lurker said:
-yet

I take it you never went to Wonderland or have been to Suffolk Downs before?

The whole moral movement against the common vices of the poor isn't always about some snobbery, it is in part motivated by an observation that many people wouldn't be poor if they weren't frittering away excess capital on vices rather than investing it into creating additional wealth.
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Why the 'yet' part? Are we going to get a different crowd than Mohegan Sun and Foxwoods?

You're absolutely right that many poor people don't help their situation by wasting their money (and, sadly, often other people's money as well) on non-productive uses such as gambling and drugs (legal or otherwise). But all of that happens at your corner Tedeschi's, Honey Farm, 7-11, or Cumberland Farms. They can go in, grab a pack of cigs, a 40 of malt liquor, and a few dozen scratch tickets, keeping them in a cycle of poverty. I see no reason for any of that to change with the construction of a Casino.
 
I think the more interesting question is whether there are purpose-built casinos in an urban setting that contribute positively to the urban fabric, especially at street level?
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The purpose of a casino is to bring people inside, and to keep them there. It is antithetical to casino activity to encourage pedestrian activity along the street. So I'm not clear what deductions could be made by the fact that few examples exist.
 
Mostly that it can be done. But I'm sure sure we would even be able to find those few examples.
 
Sicilian said:
The purpose of a casino is to bring people inside, and to keep them there. It is antithetical to casino activity to encourage pedestrian activity along the street. So I'm not clear what deductions could be made by the fact that few examples exist.
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So true. When I lived in Northwest Ohio I would occasionally go to Windsor with a friend who liked to gamble. I was surprised at how little activity there was on the street. I went there hoping to have an urban experience but the place was like a ghost town outside of the casino.
 
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Sicilian said:
Funny you should mention that. I'm no fan of casinos, certainly no fan of casinos coming to MA at either location.

That said, I thought the Wynn pair in Las Vegas were striking.

Wynn-Las-Vegas-Encore-Las-Vegas.jpg
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Those are my fav in Vegas. The Wynn and Encore are simply beautiful, classy towers. There isn't a speck of cheese to be found inside or out. The theme is luxury and nothing else. The Aria & Vdara at CityCenter are great post-modern Vegas towers too... aside from the whole death ray curtain wall fiasco...

Wynn takes architecture seriously.
 
Lurker said:
-yet

I take it you never went to Wonderland or have been to Suffolk Downs before?

The whole moral movement against the common vices of the poor isn't always about some snobbery, it is in part motivated by an observation that many people wouldn't be poor if they weren't frittering away excess capital on vices rather than investing it into creating additional wealth.
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comparing Wonderland and the current incarnation of Suffolk Downs with a 1 billion dollar+ casino with expensive table games and world class restaurants and entertainment is just plain misguided. Unless, of course, you have never set foot in a world class casino. You are more likely to see degenerates hanging out in Boston parks than you would at this casino whether built in Foxboro or Suffolk Downs.

and no matter how many laws you pass or how much you try and restrict the way people spend their money, there will ALWAYS be people who are "frittering away excess capital on vices." Why should those of us who can control how much we spend in a casino be prevented from enjoying such entertainment because there a few who can't handle it whether due to addiction or otherwise? By that rationale, we should ban hard alcohol only in Massachusetts to protect those who have alcohol addictions and force them to buy anything other than beer and wine in other states. The argument that lottery games available on every corner are acceptable and table games and slots in 3 locations in the entire state are not is as absurd as saying people should only be able to purchase beer and wine in Massachusetts because some folks can't handle their vodka.
 
BosDevelop said:
comparing Wonderland and the current incarnation of Suffolk Downs with a 1 billion dollar+ casino with expensive table games and world class restaurants and entertainment is just plain misguided. Unless, of course, you have never set foot in a world class casino. You are more likely to see degenerates hanging out in Boston parks than you would at this casino whether built in Foxboro or Suffolk Downs.

and no matter how many laws you pass or how much you try and restrict the way people spend their money, there will ALWAYS be people who are "frittering away excess capital on vices." Why should those of us who can control how much we spend in a casino be prevented from enjoying such entertainment because there a few who can't handle it whether due to addiction or otherwise? By that rationale, we should ban hard alcohol only in Massachusetts to protect those who have alcohol addictions and force them to buy anything other than beer and wine in other states. The argument that lottery games available on every corner are acceptable and table games and slots in 3 locations in the entire state are not is as absurd as saying people should only be able to purchase beer and wine in Massachusetts because some folks can't handle their vodka.
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BosDev --- well said

The ultimate waste is the waste of an absolutely unrecoverable resource -- your time

If we can't keep people from wasting their time -- we'll never keep them from wasting trivial things such as money

I'd take a Wynn casino in my neighborhood over an ocupyer camp any day of the week
 
If Suffolk Downs was a good place for a casino, then why isn't Steve Wynn talking to the owners?

If we force these things to get built where developers don't want to we will absolutely end up with a turd.

If they are given the option at least there is a chance it might be something worthwhile.
 
davem said:
If Suffolk Downs was a good place for a casino, then why isn't Steve Wynn talking to the owners?

If we force these things to get built where developers don't want to we will absolutely end up with a turd.

If they are given the option at least there is a chance it might be something worthwhile.
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Dave -- the problem is that the deal cut between the Speaka, da Prez and doGov was for 3 regional casinos plus the mega-slots parlor

This is the same kind of "deal" that keeps Trader Joe's limited to selling beer and wine in only 3 locations 9apparetly eventhis will eventually be relaxed through a "rider" on the casino bill

If there are to be casinos:
1) the Office of Economic Development should draft requirements (sq. footage, number of rooms, special amenities, etc.)
2) then annually or every 3 years have a period to receive proposals from interested parties with a fee of $1M for a slots parlor and $25m for a casino -- this would limit the proposals to those who are serious contenders who've done their homework
3) review the proposals for meeting the requirements
4) and tenatively accept those meeting or exceeding the requirements subject to approval by the local communities involved
5) when a developer's propposal is accepted -- the developer should then make a down payment of about 10% of the construction budget (split between the affected towns and the Cmmonwealth) -- again to keep Filenes Holes from forming

Then let the developer develop and let's see how the first 1 or 2 work out -- if they are successful then the process of RFP can be re-initaited

However many Wynns and others make proposals that meet the minimum criteria
 
‘Game-changer’: Sheldon Adelson might enter casino clashBy Frank Quaratiello
Wednesday, December 21, 2011 - Updated 8 hours ago



Multi-billionaire gambling magnate Sheldon Adelson, a Dorchester native who runs Las Vegas Sands Corp., is mulling whether to ante into the Massachusetts casino game, his spokesman confirmed — a development casino watchers say is a potential “game-changer.”

“The company remains interested in developing an integrated resort property in Massachusetts, but has not made any final determinations,” said Las Vegas Sands spokesman Ron Reese. “We will continue to monitor the situation and undertake our internal process as it relates to new development opportunities.”

David G. Schwartz, director of the Center for Gaming Research at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, said Adelson’s entry could be a potential “game-changer” in the budding Massachusetts casino landscape, as at least half a dozen developers have begun jockeying for three resort gaming licenses.

“I think Sheldon Adelson will get involved once the other guys have laid their cards on the table,” said casino expert Richard McGowan of Boston College. “He’s the elephant in the room. He’s been much more successful than (Steve) Wynn.”

Schwartz said, “If he tries to compete for the eastern Massachusetts casino license, you’ve got a real clash of the titans. Three of the biggest names in the industry — Wynn, Caesars and Sands — would be competing for one license.” Wynn is linked with Robert Kraft in Foxboro, while Caesars is partnering with Suffolk Downs.

Adelson runs the Venetian and Palazzo resorts on the Las Vegas Strip as well as the massive Sands Expo Center and is worth an estimated $21.5 billion — nearly five times the combined wealth of Wynn and Patriots [team stats] owner Robert Kraft, according to Forbes magazine.

In 2004, the Sands Macao opened as the first Western casino in the Chinese-controlled former Portuguese colony. Then, in 2007, Adelson opened the world’s largest casino, the Venetian Macao. He opened the Marina Bay Sands in Singapore in 2010.

“Adelson’s the only person who owns casinos in the three top markets — Macao, Singapore and Las Vegas,” Schwartz said. “Wherever he goes, he’s formidable. He’s got a real proven track record of creating a real integrated resort that government officials tend to like and that’s what puts him over the top.”

Reese declined to say what Bay State locations Adelson is eyeing. McGowan predicted, “I think Adelson will look at land in the Seaport District depending on what (Boston Mayor Thomas M. Menino) thinks, or out in Marlboro.”

Meanwhile, after a Herald review of state unemployment numbers found Boston stands to benefit more from a casino than the Foxboro area, Kraft spokesman Jeff Cournoyer defended Wynn’s Foxboro resort casino proposal yesterday, saying, “Wynn Resorts is best-in-class, and the town, region and state all stand to benefit from the quality of the jobs they would create in Foxboro
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The only real game changer I see in the room is Beton Brut.

http://www.bostonherald.com/busines...ht_enter_casino_clash/srvc=home&position=also
 
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TheRifleman said:
The only real game changer I see in the room is Benton (sic) Brut.
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And I'm on vacation in forlorn West Palm Beach...

I'm currently working with a state-wide coalition to challenge the recent legislation in court, and at the ballot box. Not because one of the proposals is in my back yard, but because expanded gaming is fiscally incompetent for the entire Commonwealth. There are some really bright lights on this board -- put on your thinking caps. Do we want a new bureaucracy that will be a comfy nest for patronage jobs? Lottery profits go back to the cities and towns -- where do casino profits go? Does anyone wonder why the governor has refused requests for an independent cost-benefit analysis on the effects of expanded gaming in Massachusetts?

You don't need to stop by the Suffolk Downs stables to smell the horseshit...
 
If anyone in the state is "surprised" that Sheldon has thrown his hat into the ring.... they are blind deaf and especially DUMB!!!

It has been stated many times in the past, his intention to build in his home state, when (not if) casinos become legal.

He also revels in bettering Steve Wynn at every possible chance he gets.
 
Beton Brut said:
And I'm on vacation in forlorn West Palm Beach...

I'm currently working with a state-wide coalition to challenge the recent legislation in court, and at the ballot box. Not because one of the proposals is in my back yard, but because expanded gaming is fiscally incompetent for the entire Commonwealth. There are some really bright lights on this board -- put on your thinking caps. Do we want a new bureaucracy that will be a comfy nest for patronage jobs? Lottery profits go back to the cities and towns -- where do casino profits go? Does anyone wonder why the governor has refused requests for an independent cost-benefit analysis on the effects of expanded gaming in Massachusetts?

You don't need to stop by the Suffolk Downs stables to smell the horseshit...
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How are we going to stop the Suffolk Downs casino? I'm IN.......I grew up near that area and it's finally at a time where things are nice and calm.

I actually enjoy going for a walk on Revere Beach finally.

Suffolk Downs Casino will evolve into Biffs Casino in Back to the Future II.
That area will get RUN DOWN again.
 
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OMGs, that would fit so perfectly in the middle of East Boston. On the other hand, it actually would work in the Seaport.
 
TheRifleman said:
How are we going to stop the Suffolk Downs casino?
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Not just Suffolk Downs, but the entire state. I've known John Ribeiro for thirty years. This is a well organized and committed group, with connections across the state.

Shepard said:
Check out the gorgeous rendering of the Biscayne Bay proposal! Just like Suffolk Downs, right?
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Calls to mind Zaha Hadid's unbuilt proposal for the NYC Olympic Village.

Because of the mature resort economy, a city like Miami might be able to support a proposal like this, but I'm not familiar with the political or business landscape in South Florida.
 
If Coakley approves the petition, activists will have 90 days from approval of the law to collect 34,456 signatures of registered voters to qualify the referendum for next year's ballot. Ribeiro said it will be a volunteer effort to collect signatures and that about 50,000 will need to be collected to provide a margin of safety.

Under the process, the attorney general would prepare a summary of the law to be repealed. The secretary of state's office would prepare forms with the summary for the purposes of gathering voter signatures.

If Coakley clears the repeal to go forward, Ribeiro said he is confident that people can collect enough signatures to place the referendum on the ballot.
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I don't trust Coakley she is part of the problem. If it clears for the ballot it will be interesting to see what the majority will vote for Gambling or not to gamble. But at least it will be OUR VOTE not theirs.

I'm proud of you Beton. Thank god somebody actually cares.

Call me if we have to go old school Shirey Ave.
 
Shepard said:
Beton, you will enjoy this - Florida considers mega-casinos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml61xnOGRYk&feature=player_embedded

Check out the gorgeous rendering of the Biscayne Bay proposal! Just like Suffolk Downs, right?
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That Miami project looks ridiculous. The renders and videos make the thing look way out of scale. Not to mention the hotels on South Beach are non too happy about this thing getting built. The developers seem to think people will bypass Las Vegas and instead make the trip down to Miami which I find laughable.
 
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