MA Casino Developments

[TheRifleman]

I'm confused. Arguably a great deal of night life venues have opened in the seaport over the past few years. Why didn't that shut down everything else?

The Seaport Night Life is absolute joke compared to a Foxwoods and Mohegan Nightlife.

I go to the Seaport now at least once a month. If Wynn Casino opened up (Similar to a Foxwoods and Mohegan Vibe) I would never go to the Seaport.

Seaport will end up being the spot for the people that live there and work in the area. (Drinks after work on the water) Or go bring your date to Strega.

The person that owns Empire which is right now in the Seaport will try to relocate into the casino. He also owns the Club in the MGM in Foxwoods.

The money will be in the casino (think about what the Casino will offer everything) Every Walk of Life--If you want to look like a high roller you can dress to the tee. If you want to play slots in jogging pants go for it.
Sports Bars
Different types of Clubs
Kings Bowling Ally
Empire (That type of Vibe)
Gambling
All Types Restaurants
Random Bars
Open Space with Random Bars

It will be a very fun place (The casino will have everything the city doesn't have)
Yes....There will be people to enjoy a nice quiet place to eat in the North End. But I think the Casino will strain and suck in a lot of money from the city of Boston nightlife

 

[Arlington]

I realize now, that the lack of hard rail and a football stadium is why the seaport area night life hasn't killed Lansdowne St. Fortunately for Wynn, the Casino has both.

Wynn has both what?

Casino has a lack of both a stadium and heavy rail, yes? So how's that fortunate?

All you can really say is that venue competition is multi-variate. Some consumers want it walkable to their office, some want pro sports, some want live music...its endless.

The internet didn't kill TV didn't kill Radio didn't kill Newspapers didn't kill folktales.

We like choices and spend more when we have them. Only the most marginal in any choice set need feel a mortal threat.

 

[TheRifleman]

Wynn has both what?

Casino has a lack of both a stadium and heavy rail, yes? So how's that fortunate?

A.

WYNN will have both Nightlife VIBES including Gambling along with Entertainment. It's all centralized which will make this the place to be.
But doesn't have the Heavy Rails or the Foot Traffic Friendly location which will make traffic congestion in the area at times.

It won't matter how much money they offer in upgrades I don't think there is enough space to rework the 93, 99 and other infrastructure roads.

 

[fattony]

For years I've always assumed Rifleman was real. i'm starting to think he is a carefully crafted character, but someone is getting sloppy. This drivel is barely more coherent than bostonbred. I think we've been had.

 

[Reznor]

Yes, the Casino will draw some people from Boston, Cambridge and Somerville on a weekend night. But I would imagine it will primarily be a North Shore draw as well as tourists/people in for the weekend. Boston (and metro area) has a growing population and downtown is adding residents faster than anytime in decades. Add to that a shortage of liquor licenses (despite raising the cap) and I think the effects will be absorbed.

And maybe nightclub competition is a good thing for the city/region. Theatre district clubs and the South End restaurant scene seem to be unaffected by Seaport's dramatic restaurant boom. One things that's for sure, the lack of competiton isn't helping Boston's cool factor.

 

[George_Apley]

^ Exactly. The market for night entertainment is no where near saturated. Bring on more clubs in more places. Boston's "youth" are practically begging for it!

 

[393b40]

Does anyone know if the Casino would be open 24/7 and allowed to serve alcohol after 2AM? I wonder if it could turn into a late-night destination for people who want to get sloshed especially if the T drops people off nearby.

 

[HenryAlan]

Wynn has both what?

Casino has a lack of both a stadium and heavy rail, yes? So how's that fortunate?

All you can really say is that venue competition is multi-variate. Some consumers want it walkable to their office, some want pro sports, some want live music...its endless.

The internet didn't kill TV didn't kill Radio didn't kill Newspapers didn't kill folktales.

We like choices and spend more when we have them. Only the most marginal in any choice set need feel a mortal threat.

I forgot the sarcasm tags. I pointed out the reasons that Rifleman believes the seaport will fail, and juxtaposed that against the Casino that will be so successful, it completely kills all other night life. I thought mention of the stadium and "hard rail" were the give away. In other words, I agree with what you say.

If there is a downside for other area entertainment destinations, it will be the Route 1/North Shore strip mall zone. Boston will be just fine.

 

[JeffDowntown]

I forgot the sarcasm tags. I pointed out the reasons that Rifleman believes the seaport will fail, and juxtaposed that against the Casino that will be so successful, it completely kills all other night life. I thought mention of the stadium and "hard rail" were the give away. In other words, I agree with what you say.

If there is a downside for other area entertainment destinations, it will be the Route 1/North Shore strip mall zone. Boston will be just fine.

Completely agree. Lot's of people who frequent Boston nightlife will NEVER set foot in Wynn's monstrosity. I personally HATE the "Casino VIBE" (puke puke).

The people who will go to Wynn's are the same people who think Vegas is fabulous. GAG.

 

[kjdonovan]

I was strolling Assembly this morning and saw Mayor Joe enjoying a cup of coffee at one of the lovely new locales. Then it struck me. Somerville sued Wynn for a number of reasons listed in some of the more coherent postings on this thread. But one of these is more important than others:

1. Moral - City actually wants to be on record as morally opposed to table gaming.

2. Traffic - Casino runs counter to SomerVision plan to reduce car trips because Sullivan Square etc. etc.

3. "Community" - This is the love child of morality and economics. Casinos make money, but for the bad guys (like the state) and hurt the fabric of local communities (local businesses of Everett and Charlestown, neighborhood connectivity, crime, etc.)

4. Payout - The city wants to get a better deal from Wynn and thinks the suit will press him to compensate Somerville more.

But the biggest reason is:

5. Assembly Square - In the end, it is not the slots or the table games that concern Somerville. It's the shops and the restaurants that surround the casino. Federal Realty and Partners (and soon others) are investing billions in Assembly. They want to be sure Somerville is making an effort to combat competition. Assembly and Wynn will be nearly identical business districts: urban islands containing high end chains, mid-to-high end restos, and in-house entertainment like theaters, clubs, rides.

The outlet tenants that Assembly will be pursuing for phase 2 onward (Lacoste, Kate Spade, DKNY,Bloomingdales, etc.) may opt for the full-price version of their products at the casino location.

You could make a case for two Gaps in downtown Boston (one is Copley, one on Newbury), but places like Gap will not be duplicating experiences in both Wynn and Assembly.

Federal is almost certainly putting pressure on Somerville to keep fighting, since a city can sue without looking two-dimensional.

This lawsuit is more about placating the existing FRIT relationship than it is about Somerville's abhorrence of the casino monster.

 

[Arlington]

5. Assembly Square - In the end, it is not the slots or the table games that concern Somerville. It's the shops and the restaurants that surround the casino. Federal Realty and Partners (and soon others) are investing billions in Assembly. They want to be sure Somerville is making an effort to combat competition. Assembly and Wynn will be nearly identical business districts: urban islands containing high end chains, mid-to-high end restos, and in-house entertainment like theaters, clubs, rides.

Nearly identical? Assembly has very different appeal:
1) Sporty/Outdoorsy: bike access, yacht club, great play structures
2) All-Ages: Lego land, play structures, movies
3) Residential...actual residents
4) Office...actual day residents needing services
5) Transit...everything Wynn isn't, really. OL + Urban Ring
6) Not a "this will end in gambling" trap.

Take any criticism of Assembly as being fake/in-authentic and not a real neighborhood and multiply it 10x and apply to the Casino.

 

[whighlander]

Nearly identical? Assembly has very different appeal:
1) Sporty/Outdoorsy: bike access, yacht club, great play structures
2) All-Ages: Lego land, play structures, movies
3) Residential...actual residents
4) Office...actual day residents needing services
5) Transit...everything Wynn isn't, really. OL + Urban Ring
6) Not a "this will end in gambling" trap.

Take any criticism of Assembly as being fake/in-authentic and not a real neighborhood and multiply it 10x and apply to the Casino.

Arlington -- both do have a great deal in common -- both are attempts to build a district from scratch in one swell foop -- nothing organic here

Even Kendall or the Seaport started with some external or internal context -- they were not "Clean Sheets" -- and now they are continuing to develop -- Kendall initially had: Volpe, Kendall Boiler and Tank; Seaport initially had: Commonwealth Pier, Fish Pier, Pier 4

Contrast all the above with the Back Bay which first was built over 4+ decades and then has spent another Century slowly evolving

 

[whighlander]

I was strolling Assembly this morning and saw Mayor Joe enjoying a cup of coffee at one of the lovely new locales. Then it struck me. Somerville sued Wynn for a number of reasons listed in some of the more coherent postings on this thread. But one of these is more important than others:

1. Moral - City actually wants to be on record as morally opposed to table gaming.

2. Traffic - Casino runs counter to SomerVision plan to reduce car trips because Sullivan Square etc. etc.

3. "Community" - This is the love child of morality and economics. Casinos make money, but for the bad guys (like the state) and hurt the fabric of local communities (local businesses of Everett and Charlestown, neighborhood connectivity, crime, etc.)

4. Payout - The city wants to get a better deal from Wynn and thinks the suit will press him to compensate Somerville more.

1 -- Somerville has no place where Keno is played ?
2. -- No-Traffic -- Somerville -- the same one?
3. -- Community -- Somerville -- - are we talking Somerville?
4. -- this is the one and only reason for the suit -- trying to get a piece of the action

 

[bolehboleh]

^^^^
Arlington,

All I'm saying is Mohegan and Foxwoods nightlife is on a different level compared to the clubs in the City of Boston.

If Wynn Chooses to develop the casinos with that type of VIBE he will smash this investment out of the park.

That's all I'm saying. The energy at Foxwoods and Mohegans on Fri and Sat nights there is nothing better than it. besides VEGAS--

I don't know. I've been drinking in Mohegan on a number of occasions and it was nothing special. All of the bars were within a short distance of each other inside a mall like structure, but nothing about them stood out.

 

[BosDevelop]

You could make a case for two Gaps in downtown Boston (one is Copley, one on Newbury), but places like Gap will not be duplicating experiences in both Wynn and Assembly.

You really think Wynn has the slightest desire to have a Gap among what will likely be no more than a few dozen stores? I'd be shocked if that is the kind of retail Wynn is going for in Everett. I'd like to think he is aiming for something a bit more on the higher end of things. "Why, with this $20 I just won at the blackjack table, I can scoot right over to that Gap down the hall and get a pair of relaxed fit, boot cut, buffet-friendly jeans."

 

[whighlander]

You really think Wynn has the slightest desire to have a Gap among what will likely be no more than a few dozen stores? I'd be shocked if that is the kind of retail Wynn is going for in Everett. I'd like to think he is aiming for something a bit more on the higher end of things. "Why, with this $20 I just won at the blackjack table, I can scoot right over to that Gap down the hall and get a pair of relaxed fit, boot cut, buffet-friendly jeans."

I think the problem is that very few here have ever been in a high-end casino such as what Wynn has in mind

His target is not the little old ladies traveling on the bus to Atlantic City or even the typical construction worker and wife going to Mohegan for a Friday night

Wynn is looking at the International High Rollers who are also the target for the top level condos in the Millenium Tower -- these people drop $thousands on a given night and are looking for Gucci not Gap

 

[SeamusMcFly]

Ahuh. Cuz that's what you'll find oodles of in Everett.

If he's smart (which he is), he will be building something that crosses all demographics. Since this casino is designed to serve 1/3+ of the gamblers in MA, plus NH/ME. He will also be looking for the international folks, business travelers, etc. Of the 3 built in MA, this will be the most high end, and it should be. But, this isn't Vegas, where everyone is a tourist, and you are shooting for your target demographic only. Like the Wynn and Encore do on the strip. He's shooting for high end/high rollers only.

Here, it's everyone. There will be (my guess) 5 full service, sit down restaurants. I'll guess two of those will be pushing the uber expensive, while the other 3 will be middle to higher end. The food court, buffets, and quick hitter food joints will take care of everyone else. There may be 2 or 3 clubs as well, and they will be scaled to suit differing needs and tastes. Same for the bars not located in the restaurants. There will be gimmicks, and higher end, middle of the road, sports bars, etc.

Shops will run the gamut as well.

We may be a great international city, but if he tries to focus too much on the upper crust, he will see empty rooms, empty tables, and empty stores during down times.

Steve Wynn is not stupid, and he doesn't want to lose business to his competition. But, if he prices them out, people who want to gamble will drive to Springfield, the South Shore, or RI/CT to get their fix. No one in the gambling game is throwing away revenue to simply be posh.

 

[TheRifleman]

You really think Wynn has the slightest desire to have a Gap among what will likely be no more than a few dozen stores? I'd be shocked if that is the kind of retail Wynn is going for in Everett. I'd like to think he is aiming for something a bit more on the higher end of things. "Why, with this $20 I just won at the blackjack table, I can scoot right over to that Gap down the hall and get a pair of relaxed fit, boot cut, buffet-friendly jeans."

Wynn proposing a 1.6 Billion dollar development--- This is huge--
This not only going to include Gaming, Entertainment and Bars & Restaurants.
It will probably include a vast majority of high end retail, Hotel, Spas, Exercise.

Wynn is going to try to monopolize everything possible to keep the community as Inside his development. Assembly Row Development will have to focus on their community and Assembly Square Traffic.

 

[Arlington]

Assembly Row Development will have to focus on their community and Assembly Square Traffic.

Hey! We agree!

Competition will encourage Assembly to better-identify its target market and better-serve its local customers...and those who travel by transit. Competition is good for consumers (voters), good for smart competitors and bad for dumb/lazy ones (who prefer to be campaign contributors and get government protection).

Dumb venue-owners all over the city are threatened by the Casino, but consumers can only benefit.

So the Casino is a net win for Somerville's people.

Tell me again why Mayor Joe wants to sue Wynn?
Campaign contribs from entrenched/lazy commercial landowners?

 

[whighlander]

Ahuh. Cuz that's what you'll find oodles of in Everett.

If he's smart (which he is), he will be building something that crosses all demographics..... But, this isn't Vegas, where everyone is a tourist, and you are shooting for your target demographic only. Like the Wynn and Encore do on the strip. He's shooting for high end/high rollers only.

Here, it's everyone.
Shops will run the gamut as well.

We may be a great international city, but if he tries to focus too much on the upper crust, he will see empty rooms, empty tables, and empty stores during down times.

Steve Wynn is not stupid, and he doesn't want to lose business to his competition. But, if he prices them out, people who want to gamble will drive to Springfield, the South Shore, or RI/CT to get their fix. No one in the gambling game is throwing away revenue to simply be posh.

Let's see what Steve says about his Wynn Everett
http://www.wynnineverett.com/the_resort.html

Every town and family in Massachusetts will benefit from the thousands of jobs and billions of dollars that the $1.6 billion Wynn Resort in Everett will generate. No detail will be spared in creating a five-star destination that will recapture nearly $1 billion a year that’s going out of state while driving premium global travelers.

CONSTRUCTION
The largest private development in Massachusetts history ($1.6 billion)
4,000 construction jobs created—built with union labor
More than 10 million labor hours to complete
RESORT
4,000 permanent jobs created—average salary of $51,700 plus benefits and training
Approximately 500 luxury hotel rooms—the largest luxury room size in Boston
Waterfront boardwalk featuring premium retail and restaurants
Four-season esplanade and boardwalk with landscaped picnic park, viewing decks, pedestrian and bicycle paths, water ferry/water taxi service to Boston, boat docks and waterfront dining and retail
Five-star spa featuring designer treatment rooms, steam rooms, whirlpools and lounges
Outstanding meeting/convention space and high-energy nightclub
Lavish gaming area with table games and slot machines—less than 10% of the entire resort

outdoors in the summer

and inside winter garden

http://www.wynnineverett.com/files/WYNN-101_FactSheet.pdf

The financial and socio-economic impact generated by the Wynn Resort in Everett will be nothing short of historic. Similar in scope to the rebirth of Faneuil Hall and the creation of the Boston Seaport Innovation District, the Wynn Resort will generate a monumental and ongoing wave of new careers, business opportunities, tax revenues and economic activity.

4,000 permanent and 4,000 construction jobs—Wynn will be among the top five private employees in Boston
Average annual salary of more than $51,700, not including tips, benefits or training
$267 million paid in annual, recurring state and local taxes
$900 million per year spent by Wynn guest in other local and regional businesses
$120 million spent per year on vendor-supplied goods and services
$125,000 of vouchers/gift certificates bought annually from local businesses
$2.5 billion of gaming revenue over five years recaptured from Massachusetts residents who currently spend out of state
$293 million spent by Wynn guests on non-gaming revenue in year one of operation
Wynn’s elite international clientele spent more than $5.5 billion in gaming in 2013—bringing new tourism and revenue to region and state