MBTA Buses & Infrastructure

millerm277 said:
Do these actually exist for sale in North America/seem likely to exist in the future from a sufficient variety of vendors to get reasonable pricing/have any sort of negotiating power?

I ask, as hasn't that been part of why the MBTA has had trouble with what to do with the SL fleet and the tortured overhaul process for them? Not many vendors on the market selling to this side of the Atlantic with a product for that use?

5 US cities with wires and 1 in Canada isn't much of a market, and I doubt any city with no wires is going to start stringing them up rather than just move to full BEB.
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I don't know about available buses on the market, but it doesn't seem to me like it should be that hard for a BEB maker to make it compatible with overhead lines. I will note Seattle does have existing ETBs with battery capacity for off-wire use (albeit only short-distance as a backup, but they weren't designed as ETB/BEB hybrids) It can't be harder than making the cursed Silver Line dual modes (and I thought at least some of their overhaul troubles came from the T hiring a questionably-qualified operation out of cheapskatery).

The simple fact remains that the T shouldn't be replacing the ETBs with inferior replacements. BEBs (especially in the numbers they earmarked for ETB replacement) don't have the capacity to replace the Neoplans without service cuts or diesel hybrid backfilling for however long it takes the fleet to more fully turn over (and the former, cuts, are already acknowledged as part of the plan for the North Cambridge-based routes, which already saw reductions from the T not buying enough of the Neoplans to cover the old Flyer fleet).

Tallguy said:
This is all about the Ts irrational dislike of catenary maintenance. The present wires(N Cambridge, Seaport Transitway, B Branch and E Branch) could support 12-4% of the present fleet, and just wiring Blue Hill Ave would get it closer to 17-9%. Instead we will continue to kill people with diesel heaters. Because MBTA convenience is more important than kids lungs
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It really does seem like it's all about them hating the wires (especially that they've repeatedly proposed converting the Blue Line to full third-rail, including recently). Even looking past the benefits that could be gained right now from bootstrapping the wires to extend electric service to places currently served by diesels, the actual plans screw over Cambridge with BEBs (with diesel heaters) that also can't cover the pre-pandemic electric services (because they're not buying enough). It seems like they reached a point where they could just about make the math work to make it look like the BEBs were better on paper (though TransitMatters - and F-Line, as usual - eviscerated the fuzzy math pretty quickly) even though in reality there's still a ways to go before the technology is mature enough for a city with this nasty a winter climate (time that could be well spent on a BEB/ETB hybrid that actually improved service).
 
millerm277 said:
Do these actually exist for sale in North America/seem likely to exist in the future from a sufficient variety of vendors to get reasonable pricing/have any sort of negotiating power?

I ask, as hasn't that been part of why the MBTA has had trouble with what to do with the SL fleet and the tortured overhaul process for them? Not many vendors on the market selling to this side of the Atlantic with a product for that use?

5 US cities with wires and 1 in Canada isn't much of a market, and I doubt any city with no wires is going to start stringing them up rather than just move to full BEB.
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I believe New Flyer makes some. Most if not all modern trolleybusses come with some off-wire capability as well, even those marketed as non-battery busses.
 
Dayton just replaced(and increased) their fleet with Gillig IMCs. They are going great.
 
Stlin said:
The MBTA recently posted a short "Key Takeaways" about the life cycle cost differentials between maintaining trolleybus service and switching to BEB for the 71 and the 73. It's only 2 pages, so it's all below. I'm not qualified in the least to vet these numbers, but it seems to justify the MBTAs desire to pull down the wires, even if keeping the wires makes sense for enroute charging.

View attachment 19301
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Disinformation of Stalinist proportions. No one in the whole MassDOT organization has a sense of shame or of honor.
 
shmessy said:
Hyperbole much?
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Probably, but MassDOT and the T (at least under Baker & Company) have shown a disturbing tendency to muck with numbers and assumptions in their studies and presentations to kill projects they didn't want and push the choices they did, and it's understandably frustrating to have the conversation influenced by such chicanery. So, definitely hyperbole but I agree with the sentiment, if not perhaps to quite the same rhetorical degree.
 
HenryAlan said:
Interesting, I didn't realize there were actual plans for Hyde Park Ave. Exciting if still true, now I'll need to do some googling for more details.
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I haven't seen any details, but it's on the MBTA's coming-soon list.

real_EthanHunt said:
Congress St lanes are in between Sudbury and North St.
also, the Rutherford planned one should be extended to the Tobin off ramp.
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Congress Street lanes? I haven't heard anything about those.
 
Teban54 said:
Winter 2022 schedule is out. Overall reduction of 5% of trips due to driver shortage, with many routes having reduced frequencies and schedule changes.
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I think I found the problem!

Trainees are paid $15.86/hour, 40 hours/week for eight weeks of training. After training, new hires start at $21.13/hour, 30 hours/week, with the potential to advance to 40 hours/week.
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Who's going to sign up to drive a bus for that? Especially with all the other issues of being the low person in seniority for picking shifts, needing to get/maintain a CDL (and the restrictions on substance use even off the clock), etc.

I don't know what a bus operator makes after a few years experience, but I suspect it increases decently per year in the union agreement. And if so, they really ought to be putting that out there as part of the posting.

"The job pays $21/hr and you might only get 30 hours a week" and "The job starts at $21/hr, and you get a guaranteed by contract $5/hr raise every year until you hit $40/hr" (or whatever it really is), are substantially different employment propositions.
 
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