MBTA "Transformation" (Green Line, Red Line, & Orange Line Transformation Projects)

MBTA plans meeting on future of Mattapan trolley line
By Reporter Staff
June 14, 2023

“MBTA officials are hosting a virtual meeting on the future of the Mattapan trolley line on Tuesday, June 20.

The meeting starts at 6:30 p.m. and runs until 8 p.m. Staffers are expected to provide an update on planned improvements and upgrades to the line.

The trolley line runs through Dorchester, Milton and Mattapan, carrying 6,600 customers across eight stations between Ashmont-Peabody Square and Mattapan Square.

The MBTA is seeking to modernize both the stations and the vehicles over the next eight to 10 years, and make the stations closer in appearance to the ones on the Green Line, which runs through Boston, Brookline and Somerville. The trolleys will be taken out of the service, replaced by light rail vehicles that can be seen running on the Green Line.

Platforms will be raised by 14 inches in order to accommodate the height of the light rail vehicles, according to the T…”

https://www.dotnews.com/2023/mbta-plans-meeting-future-mattapan-trolley-line
 
I fee
stick n move said:
MBTA plans meeting on future of Mattapan trolley line
By Reporter Staff
June 14, 2023

“MBTA officials are hosting a virtual meeting on the future of the Mattapan trolley line on Tuesday, June 20.

The meeting starts at 6:30 p.m. and runs until 8 p.m. Staffers are expected to provide an update on planned improvements and upgrades to the line.

The trolley line runs through Dorchester, Milton and Mattapan, carrying 6,600 customers across eight stations between Ashmont-Peabody Square and Mattapan Square.

The MBTA is seeking to modernize both the stations and the vehicles over the next eight to 10 years, and make the stations closer in appearance to the ones on the Green Line, which runs through Boston, Brookline and Somerville. The trolleys will be taken out of the service, replaced by light rail vehicles that can be seen running on the Green Line.

Platforms will be raised by 14 inches in order to accommodate the height of the light rail vehicles, according to the T…”

https://www.dotnews.com/2023/mbta-plans-meeting-future-mattapan-trolley-line
Click to expand...

It's such a short line. I feel like in addition to modernizing it, they should also make it longer.
 
stick n move said:
MBTA plans meeting on future of Mattapan trolley line
By Reporter Staff
June 14, 2023

“MBTA officials are hosting a virtual meeting on the future of the Mattapan trolley line on Tuesday, June 20.

The meeting starts at 6:30 p.m. and runs until 8 p.m. Staffers are expected to provide an update on planned improvements and upgrades to the line.

The trolley line runs through Dorchester, Milton and Mattapan, carrying 6,600 customers across eight stations between Ashmont-Peabody Square and Mattapan Square.

The MBTA is seeking to modernize both the stations and the vehicles over the next eight to 10 years, and make the stations closer in appearance to the ones on the Green Line, which runs through Boston, Brookline and Somerville. The trolleys will be taken out of the service, replaced by light rail vehicles that can be seen running on the Green Line.

Platforms will be raised by 14 inches in order to accommodate the height of the light rail vehicles, according to the T…”

https://www.dotnews.com/2023/mbta-plans-meeting-future-mattapan-trolley-line
Click to expand...
Does no one care about converting it to a Red Line extension anymore? Seems like a really logical thing to do.
 
Teban54 said:
Does no one care about converting it to a Red Line extension anymore? Seems like a really logical thing to do.
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I think this has really fallen down the priority list with all the investment given to and planned for the Fairmount line and that expanding the current line is a better use of funds.
 
bakgwailo said:
Yeah. And taking another 8-10 years to do this is ridiculous.
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Given current priorities, and current ridership, this doesn't seem too crazy to me. IF they had nothing else going on, I'd expect something like a complete line overhaul to be 5 years or so. This project also hinges on a lot of other projects being completed, including delivery of new vehicles, and infrastructure and facility modifications for those new vehicles.

While a bigger scale, the Blue Line modernization was scoped in 1988, design awarded in 1989, final design '90-92, construction '94-~2000.
 
Equilibria said:
Not really - they can't move the Type 9s in until the Type 10s arrive for the Green Line, and the vehicle replacement is a core part of the modernization.
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There is more to the project than just replacing the PCCs with hand me down Type-9s: including the woefully behind schedule rebuild of said PCCs.

stefal said:
Given current priorities, and current ridership, this doesn't seem too crazy to me. IF they had nothing else going on, I'd expect something like a complete line overhaul to be 5 years or so. This project also hinges on a lot of other projects being completed, including delivery of new vehicles, and infrastructure and facility modifications for those new vehicles.

While a bigger scale, the Blue Line modernization was scoped in 1988, design awarded in 1989, final design '90-92, construction '94-~2000.
Click to expand...

This is the same plan outline what 5 years ago? That also planned a 8-10 year timeline. Nothing has been done on the stations, in fact, the main station for Lower Mills in this time has lost it's main entrance due to the stairs deteriorating. The PCC rebuild is years behind. They did rebuild the crossing at Central Avenue, and yet put no gates or anything else in that would modernize it and make it safer/prioritize the Trolley.

So, yeah, this has been lagging since before the pandemic and a reoccuring theme on the line. So now we are on a 15 year mark to rebuild 7 light rail stations on a 2.5 mile line and rehab 6 PCCs and possibly shore up a few bridge for LRV conversion is pretty ridiculous. Good comparison on the Blue line, though: infinitely more complex project that only took 12 years start to finish.
 
With their intention to put all of the Type 9s on the Mattapan, that seems like overkill for number of trains (24) and suggests to me that an extension is very plausible.
My thought would be to extend up Blue Hill Ave and Morton St. to Forest Hills. It’d a little over double the line length and bring much more utility to the line as a southern bridge between Red and Orange whilst bringing a faster, more comfortable trip to the ~10k daily riders of the 21&31 buses. I believe someone mentioned this before in reasonable transit pitches.
 
Koopzilla24 said:
With their intention to put all of the Type 9s on the Mattapan, that seems like overkill for number of trains (24) and suggests to me that an extension is very plausible.
My thought would be to extend up Blue Hill Ave and Morton St. to Forest Hills. It’d a little over double the line length and bring much more utility to the line as a southern bridge between Red and Orange whilst bringing a faster, more comfortable trip to the ~10k daily riders of the 21&31 buses. I believe someone mentioned this before in reasonable transit pitches.
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They're not putting all of the Type 9's on Mattapan. The B and C are going to lag the D/E/GLX in getting all their platforms lengthened for 2-car Type 10 'supertrains', so there will still need to be a Type 9 fleet to surge rush-hour service there. Mattapan is only going to need 6-8 of them to cover all service.
 

Public Meeting | Mattapan Line Transformation Program (Virtual) | Events | MBTA

Official website of the MBTA -- schedules, maps, and fare information for Greater Boston's public transportation system, including subway, commuter rail, bus routes, and boat lines.
www.mbta.com www.mbta.com

There's currently an ongoing virtual public meeting about the Mattapan Line Transformation Program, the meeting will last until 8:00 PM if anyone is interested.
 
Here is the most recent ridership data for the Mattapan line.
mattapan ridership.PNG
 
Koopzilla24 said:
With their intention to put all of the Type 9s on the Mattapan, that seems like overkill for number of trains (24) and suggests to me that an extension is very plausible.
My thought would be to extend up Blue Hill Ave and Morton St. to Forest Hills. It’d a little over double the line length and bring much more utility to the line as a southern bridge between Red and Orange whilst bringing a faster, more comfortable trip to the ~10k daily riders of the 21&31 buses. I believe someone mentioned this before in reasonable transit pitches.
Click to expand...

Of course, everyone would know that the Type 9's won't start being transferred over to the Mattapan Line until the T has enough of the new Type 10's that would allow it to do that without any hardship on the present Green Lines. :)
 
themissinglink said:
Here is the most recent ridership data for the Mattapan line.
View attachment 39381
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Valley Rd and Capen St are just sad. Should an RL conversion ever happen, simply removing these two stations should be a no-brainer.

I wonder if Milton's relative underperformance compared to Central Ave is related to losing its main entrance.

It appears that Mattapan station is still doing well relative to the entire line, despite the fact that the nearby Fairmount Line is one of the few lines, if not only, on the entire MBTA system whose ridership exceeds pre-Covid. This shows that Fairmount's success isn't hindering the Mattapan line's ridership significantly.
 
themissinglink said:
Here is the most recent ridership data for the Mattapan line.
View attachment 39381
Click to expand...

Lukewarm take: stops with fewer than 20 average weekday boardings should be nuked.

Hotter take: they can be spared this fate by allowing builder's remedy within a quarter mile to make the platform maintenance and added transit time worth it to the rest of the system.
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
What's up with Ashmont's big underperformance? Is that drag from the Red Line slow zones? I wonder if the buses are similarly hurting there.
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It also depends on how much you believe the 2018 counts. It seems like they don't release data for Mattapan Line anymore in the Blue Book Portal.
The 2010 count in the 2014 Blue Book was 4,637 for the whole line and I have a hard time believing ridership increased 50% between 2010 and 2018.
 
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