MBTA "Transformation" (Green Line, Red Line, & Orange Line Transformation Projects)

[The EGE]

Everything with this round of stations (GLX, the 14 B and C stops, the 5 D stops, and the planned E stops) is all provisioned for easy conversion for higher platforms for Type 10s. The current order of Type 10 cars only provides for single-car trains (113' long) which can be done fairly cheaply within existing platform lengths everywhere. Remove about 150' of existing platform, add 125' of higher platform plus ramps. With good planning, you can probably blitz the conversion of an entire line in two weeks (or use temporary wooden platforms at some stops during conversion). By far the hardest part - getting enough width to have a compliant accessible platform in the first place - is already being done with these current projects. The initial Type 10 modifications are much simpler (and pretty cheap) with that in place.

Going up to 2-car trains will be where it gets tricky, and I suspect that most stations will not be modified for that until they actually commit to buying enough cars for that. You need about 260' including the ramps at the ends, which is longer than some current stops. To their credit, the MBTA clearly is thinking about this. They've explicitly called out B and C stops (Blandford, BC, St Marys, Coolidge, Washington Square, Cleveland Circle) that will need major work/relocation, and are apparently considering converting at least some B stops to island platforms that would be wider than the existing side platforms. There's a few others (Harvard Avenue and Chiswick Road off the top of my head) that will need a bit of lengthening as well, but likely not major relocation.

The Central Subway will be fine - the shortest platform is Boylston NB at 250'. GLX is 225' platforms that can largely be raised in place, and they were explicitly provisioned for lengthening to 300' if needed anyway. Three of the E surface stops are fine, and those under design now will be presumably long enough as well. Brigham Circle will need reconfigured (which will hopefully improve on those super-narrow platforms), and Heath Street will of course need to be completely replaced. On the D, all but two stops have plenty of room. At Riverside, they'll probably have to replace the Grove Street bridge with a wider span to extend the platforms east. At Reservoir, they'll need to reconfigure the yard leads (moving the tracks over using the space currently occupied by the snowplow siding) and remove or reconfigure the "cripple track" on the south side of the tracks.

 

[cubbe8]

Everything with this round of stations (GLX, the 14 B and C stops, the 5 D stops, and the planned E stops)

Isn’t it 6 D line stops? Waban, Eliot, Newton Highlands, Chestnut Hill, Beaconsfield and Brookline Hills?

 

[The EGE]

Isn’t it 6 D line stops? Waban, Eliot, Newton Highlands, Chestnut Hill, Beaconsfield and Brookline Hills?

Whoops, you're correct. I forgot about Brookline Hills, and Amory Street and Babcock Street on the B. Same commentary applies to all three of those.

 

[themissinglink]

Does anyone know when Kent Street is going to be closed? I hope it's sooner rather than later so that C branch trains can go a bit faster.

 

[cubbe8]

Does anyone know when Kent Street is going to be closed?

Construction for C branch accessibility is starting in March and B branch Fall 25. Kent will be closed and Fairbanks and Brandon Hall consolidated.

B Branch Station Accessibility Improvements | Projects | MBTA

Official website of the MBTA -- schedules, maps, and fare information for Greater Boston's public transportation system, including subway, commuter rail, bus routes, and boat lines.

www.mbta.com

C Branch Station Accessibility Improvements | Projects | MBTA

Official website of the MBTA -- schedules, maps, and fare information for Greater Boston's public transportation system, including subway, commuter rail, bus routes, and boat lines.

www.mbta.com

 

[bakgwailo]

Posting live from the Red Line:

While pretty fast from Ashmont to South Station, the screeching South Station and Broadway and JFK to Andrew was deafening. Significantly worse than the Boylston Curve. Also noticed a bit of slowness on the way in going into Savin Hill.

I was a bit disappointed that the Ashmont fare gates didn't take tap credit cards, too. The trolley, at least on the way in was nice and was a rebuilt one - good AC. I currently fear how long I will have to wait at Ashmont for a Trolley, though.

All in all Ashmont to South station was about 20 minutes. About 35 door to for with the trolley at Cedar Grove.

 

[as02143]

Posting live from the Red Line:

While pretty fast from Ashmont to South Station, the screeching South Station and Broadway and JFK to Andrew was deafening. Significantly worse than the Boylston Curve. Also noticed a bit of slowness on the way in going into Savin Hill.

I was a bit disappointed that the Ashmont fare gates didn't take tap credit cards, too. The trolley, at least on the way in was nice and was a rebuilt one - good AC. I currently fear how long I will have to wait at Ashmont for a Trolley, though.

All in all Ashmont to South station was about 20 minutes. About 35 door to for with the trolley at Cedar Grove.

I thought it was tomorrow that the contactless payments were to begin, except for beta testing group.

 

[bakgwailo]

I thought it was tomorrow that the contactless payments were to begin, except for beta testing group.

Yeah, it could be. The trolley didn't care and in the end, just got a Charlie Ticket at Ashmont for a round trip - which was cool as it was tapable.

Now, rant after getting home and doing the dishes:

I got into Ashmont and was watching my tracker website and saw a trolley pulling in, too. What great luck I thought, as we pulled into Ashmont (usual super slow going in), the App updated as I got off the train to show the trolley almost at Cedar Grove. As I got towards the platform on the escalator I saw the meandering passengers leaving the platform and no sign of the trolley. The countdown board said a trolley every 22-25 minutes, and there was not another trolley on the line according to my app. I decided to screw that and just walked home via Cedar Grove. As I arrived on foot, the trolley finally pulled up, so I can at least say I tied it and won a moral victory (and walked off some calories from dinner in town).

Utter waste of 20 minutes because the MBTA and High-Speed Line operators can't be arsed to do even simple operational improvements that even toddlers in any other system in the world would be able to do like having a transfer wait less than 2 minutes at the terminus of a major subway line. I guess some things never change.

 

[BeansTheCat]

I asked this in a different thread, but does anyone know if there have been updates on the Mattapan Line Program/Transformation project since last June? I can't find anything on the T's website (or anywhere else) since then, but wanted to make sure I'm not missing anything. I'd also be curious if any stop consolidation/removal was ever seriously considered the last few years, but given the plans to keep Capen St and Valley Road, I assume the answer is no.

 

[bakgwailo]

I asked this in a different thread, but does anyone know if there have been updates on the Mattapan Line Program/Transformation project since last June? I can't find anything on the T's website (or anywhere else) since then, but wanted to make sure I'm not missing anything. I'd also be curious if any stop consolidation/removal was ever seriously considered the last few years, but given the plans to keep Capen St and Valley Road, I assume the answer is no.

Stop consolidation was never a topic brought up in the community meetings I attend, nor have I seen any literature considering it.

Also curious on updates. I think the answer is there are none, and that the PCC rehab remains as behind as the CRRC order, and the other transformation projects are in limbo.

 

[cubbe8]

Stop consolidation was never a topic brought up in the community meetings I attend, nor have I seen any literature considering it.

Also curious on updates. I think the answer is there are none, and that the PCC rehab remains as behind as the CRRC order, and the other transformation projects are in limbo.

But isn’t full implementation funded through the CIP?

 

[BeansTheCat]

But isn’t full implementation funded through the CIP?

It's fully authorized, but only $77 million of the authorized $114 is programmed to be spent by FY 29. That doesn't seem to bode well for the project timeline. The transformation project is P0857 in the most recent CIP book.

 

[BeansTheCat]

Stop consolidation was never a topic brought up in the community meetings I attend, nor have I seen any literature considering it.

I didn't think so either, but wanted to confirm. I asked because I noticed the expected cost of replacing the Valley Road station is almost $21 million, but was only serving 10 daily riders as of June 2023. It seems like that money could be much better used if that station was just permanently closed.

 

[cubbe8]

It's fully authorized, but only $77 million of the authorized $114 is programmed to be spent by FY 29. That doesn't seem to bode well for the project timeline. The transformation project is P0857 in the most recent CIP book.

They have to wait till the type 10 start delivery in 2027 to transfer type 9’s so the timeline makes sense of 77 million by FY 29.

 

[bakgwailo]

They have to wait till the type 10 start delivery in 2027 to transfer type 9’s so the timeline makes sense of 77 million by FY 29.

I guess. But there was still a bunch of station work, track improvements, bridge work, etc that it seems they could get a head start on to get things ready for the Type-9s. They also talked more drastic things like redoing the interchange at Ashmont which would have a potentially be (positive) impact on riders today without waiting for the hand me down Type 9s.

 

[BeansTheCat]

After reaching out to the MBTA, I have some vague but mildly encouraging information on the Mattapan Line Transformation. Full quotes are below, with emphasis mine:

• On the Transformation project in general: "We are currently in the process of redefining aspects of the project scope with our leadership team with the goal of delivering this project more quickly and in a more cost-effective way. We are also in the process of pursuing the additional funding that is required to fully complete the project. We plan to host another public meeting in the coming months to provide updated information on the project's progress and next steps."
• On station consolidation: "The MBTA has explored a variety of options as part of the Mattapan Line Transformation Program, including the potential for station consolidation. However, no decisions have been made at this time. Any consideration of changes to station locations will be informed by comprehensive public engagement, and we are committed to working with the community to gather input before making any determinations."
• On the evaluation of new transit investments (BNRD, Blue Hill Ave busway, Fairmount electrification) since the original decisions were made on the future of the Mattapan Line: "The MBTA continually assesses ridership trends across our system, including on the Mattapan Line. Our projections for the Mattapan Line are informed by the Central Transportation Planning Staff (CTPS) model, which accounts for various factors, including ongoing transportation initiatives such as the Blue Hill Avenue busway, the Bus Network Redesign (BNRD), and improvements to the Fairmount Line. We recognize the potential impact of these projects both in terms of competition with the Mattapan Line and the opportunity to enhance Mattapan, and these considerations will play a role in our long-term planning."

None of this is particularly informative, but it does appear that the project is being completely reevaluated under new management. There does also seem to be a willingness to explore station consolidation, but I certainly won't be given a clear answer before a public meeting occurs. The most important piece of information IMO is that there will be a meeting in the next few months, signalling that there is a rough idea on how to proceed.

 

[bakgwailo]

Interesting. I don't see station consolidation flying with Milton, and, honestly, I don't see why there would be a need for it given the line's short length and relatively short ride already, unless the MBTA is using it to nuke the stations that can never get ADA compliance.

 

[BeansTheCat]

Interesting. I don't see station consolidation flying with Milton, and, honestly, I don't see why there would be a need for it given the line's short length and relatively short ride already, unless the MBTA is using it to nuke the stations that can never get ADA compliance.

In this case, the main benefit of station consolidation/removal is cost savings. The T does not view leaving any station as non-ADA compliant as an option. As I said in a previous post, the expected cost of replacing the Valley Road station is almost $21 million, but was only serving 10 daily riders as of June 2023. Capen St also has an abysmal price to ridership ratio, while Cedar Grove and Butler are better but not great.

As for Milton, the state can pretty easily argue it won't put up the funds unless Milton allows TOD around the stations; otherwise, they can kick rocks. It's probably not the best way to handle the situation, but it does send a clear signal on how future transit improvements/expansions will be treated. The state did something very similar with Newton and largely succeeded.

 

[The EGE]

There's going to have to be a hard look at Capen Street, Valley Road, Butler, and Cedar Grove. They collectively account for 178 daily boardings (4.6% of ridership), yet are estimated to account for $45M in renovations. Even if that number is massively slashed (as it should be), you're still looking at a lot of money for a very small number of riders.

As Beans notes, Capen Street and Valley Road in particular seem likely to be cut. They're the lowest ridership, have the lowest ridership recovery, and serve low-density suburban areas with million-dollar homes. Valley Road will be very expensive and difficult to make accessible. I could maybe see the case for a station at Francis Street, with accessible paths from Capen Street and the Harvest River Bridge, but that would be doubtful on actually meeting accessibility regs.

Butler has the best ridership of the four, but it's only 1,600 feet from Milton. Cedar Grove has the best actual catchment area; its ridership is probably suppressed by only being one stop from Ashmont. If there were better timed and less convoluted transfers at Ashmont, I bet it would nearly equal Milton in ridership.

https://cdn.mbta.com/sites/default/files/2023-06/2023-06-20-mattapan-public-information-meeting_0.pdf

 

[BeansTheCat]

Thank you for pulling that information from the slides. It definitely helps inform this conversation.

Butler has the best ridership of the four, but it's only 1,600 feet from Milton.

I think there is a reasonable chance to see Butler, Milton, and Central Ave consolidated into a single station. They are all within about 1600 feet of Milton, and the Neponset Trail provides a high quality walking/biking link between them. The ridership loss that would come from this consolidation is unlikely to be worth the cost of building and maintaining more stations, and could likely be mostly offset just by having extensive bike parking at the new station.