MBTA "Transformation" (Green Line, Red Line, & Orange Line Transformation Projects)

whighlander

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It is the confusion factor of have an entrance where NB is one station, SB is a different station name on the same line (Orange). This is because of the long linear alternating platforms of Orange between DTX and State, with entrances strung out along those long platforms.

DTX/Park is cleaner. Both Park and DTX have a full Red Line station with parallel platforms, so you board Red at the station you enter, no confusion.

The Winter Street Concourse really sends you between lines (not between NB and SB on a line). So head Park direction for Green, head DTX direction for Orange. Board all Red at either end.
Jeff -- I like the suggestion to use all of our modern data [including LADAR] to do some scoping

Note: that while the Orange-Orange almost overlap was the original motivator -- it needn't be the route for the final pedestrian connector.

One possibility is to take advantage of the Summer St. Concourse and connect from it up a route parallel to Washington St. to the State Street Blue Line Platform. If the tunnel is designed properly it could contain both a walking area in the center with two moving walkways on the walls [Logan interterminal-like]. Later other entrances to the Master Station Complex could be added with Charlie Gates-only like Chauncey St. This would be a rewrite of the downtown interfaces between pedestrians and the T
 

F-Line to Dudley

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Jeff -- I like the suggestion to use all of our modern data [including LADAR] to do some scoping

Note: that while the Orange-Orange almost overlap was the original motivator -- it needn't be the route for the final pedestrian connector.

One possibility is to take advantage of the Summer St. Concourse and connect from it up a route parallel to Washington St. to the State Street Blue Line Platform. If the tunnel is designed properly it could contain both a walking area in the center with two moving walkways on the walls [Logan interterminal-like]. Later other entrances to the Master Station Complex could be added with Charlie Gates-only like Chauncey St. This would be a rewrite of the downtown interfaces between pedestrians and the T
No. No moving walkways, please. Just no. Make this fantasy die already.

One...this is the agency that that can barely keep its escalator uptime tolerable after years of trying to desperately to get on top of maint (after decades prior of not trying much at all). Adding more moving parts to the mix than is necessary for baseline accessibility is the worst idea ever.

Two...as EGE details, State's interface has labyrinthine vertical changes in addition to the 2D mess you see on the map. You are not even close to on a constant level trying to get between stops on a presumptive walkway, so making it moving is going to be an utter nonstarter on basic applicability.

Third...there is no "Master Station Complex" to be had here. The distances are not convenient to one another, and the layout is unchangeably labyrinthine. There are *certain* advantages to the connection, which is why a basic feasibility study on State-DTX walkway should be a high priority to establish if we can do this at all at tolerable cost. But regardless of what that turns up for base feasibility....transformative it will not be for time-saving mobility. This is much too ad hoc and messy a collection of nooks and crannies that has to be strung together. Per EGE's own post, the biggest gain from it is weather protection--which is very significant--but not time savings or platform dwell taming in the slightest.
 

Andrew

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This seems like it dovetails into this in a timely fashion:

Good read. It is a bizarre station, so small that the trains departing literally don't fit, but I agree with assessment that until/if we get a proper connector there's no reason not to have it open, especially since the trains need to turn around there anyway.

Needs to go once red/blue is built though.
 

North Shore

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Good read. It is a bizarre station, so small that the trains departing literally don't fit, but I agree with assessment that until/if we get a proper connector there's no reason not to have it open, especially since the trains need to turn around there anyway.

Needs to go once red/blue is built though.
My thoughts exactly. It's not hurting any operations, other than the fact that the tunnel serves as the size restriction for the cars for the BL (correct, F-Line?).
 

Arlington

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My thoughts exactly. It's not hurting any operations, other than the fact that the tunnel serves as the size restriction for the cars for the BL (correct, F-Line?).
Yes, he said it here: http://archboston.com/community/threads/mbta-red-line-blue-line-connector.1832/post-339683
And other places.
Without Bowdoin, Blue Line trains could be much more like the new OL (Blue & Orange already can have a common carbody cross-section (different suspension heights = different floor-platform level), but eliminating Bowdoin would allow blue to be lengthened to have 3 sets of doors per car) I'm not sure what it'd take to get OL==BL carbody exactly.
 

F-Line to Dudley

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State curve is the #2 ruling limit for sub- Orange dimensions. But if you whack #1 Bowdoin Loop with Red-Blue...which will demo the loop center wall and egress end of the station to straighten the alignment...you can do a scoping study for State curve to see if the remainder of the difference can be made up.

Even if you can't go full-Orange, Red-Blue might relax car lengthening enough to add another set of doors. So there will be some capacity benefit to shoot for on the next car order regardless.
 

Arlington

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No. No moving walkways, please. Just no. Make this fantasy die already.
So can nothing be done to improve the Orange-Blue connection? You can almost see the "am I going to make my flight" panic in the bodies of the people rolling their bag from Orange to Blue.
 

F-Line to Dudley

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So can nothing be done to improve the Orange-Blue connection? You can almost see the "am I going to make my flight" panic in the bodies of the people rolling their bag from Orange to Blue.
Yeah, it's improvable. A ped connection is still more direct than the meandering path to an egress. But it's no revolution because...all paths are still meandering, and still slower than waiting for the next train headway. The layouts are what they are: nutty...per EGE's map. And in the particular case of State-DTX the changing grades are another inefficiency.

There's enough of an enhancement here that we do have urgent need to study for feasibility and cost ballparking. On weather protection alone it's enough of a net-plus to figure out what we can do...if anything. But please...dispense with the "Master Station Complex" fantasy like this going to unify the big HRT stations in some spacious underground-city Super-union station. It's not. These are linked catacombs, not Airport Terminal concourses.
 

Arlington

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What do you think? should the B-Line Brighton Ave stop consolidation go in this thread?
(Or should it go in "MBTA Construction" ?)
 

George_Apley

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What do you think? should the B-Line Brighton Ave stop consolidation go in this thread?
(Or should it go in "MBTA Construction" ?)
In my opinion it should go in the project specific thread before a general thread.
 

F-Line to Dudley

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Part of me thinks Bowdoin Station could see more use if the Hurley Building is redeveloped. Then that part of me remembers that it's a 3min walk from Government Center to Bowdoin Square.
It's less if the GC emergency exit is turned into a Blue-only full egress. Was supposed to happen during the station reno, but was cut from the budget. If Bowdoin goes for Red-Blue it's easy enough to finish that job.
 

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