Millennium Tower (Filene's) | 426 Washington Street | Downtown

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Re: Filene's

You can't cut and paste buildings from city to city. It just doesn't work. The buildings are designed the way they are for a reason (given the architect has a strong enough concept). What works for one city, won't necessarily work for another.

That's why I never like these "imagine <xyz> here" proposals.
 
Re: Filene's

statler said:
I think a lot of people here would swap 2 & 3. Ugh.
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That could be because people don't care so much about DTX anymore. To me, there are so many other places in the city that have great groundfloor retail and shopping and so few places to develop something tall and stunning. So yeah, I would swap 2 and 3 for this location.

Now if you're talking about a place like Newbury Street, then that's a different story.
 
Re: Filene's

datadyne007 said:
That's why I never like these "imagine <xyz> here" proposals.
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True in most cases, but I think the Handel building actually would be perfect in DTX.

@BubbyBu: Very true about SOMA.
 
Re: Filene's

It's at the conflux of 3-4 transit lines, sits between the Financial District, Chinatown and the Common and is in an area that has one of the most complete streetscapes in the entire city.

How is the pedestrian experience not absolutely vital here?
 
Re: Filene's

type001 said:
That could be because people don't care so much about DTX anymore. To me, there are so many other places in the city that have great groundfloor retail and shopping and so few places to develop something tall and stunning. So yeah, I would swap 2 and 3 for this location.

Now if you're talking about a place like Newbury Street, then that's a different story.
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Pardon my French, but are you kidding? Downtown Crossing should become the ass of Boston? That's absurd. Statler just proved DTX's value.

So, what, the answer to DTX is to forget about it and let it become a wasteland?
 
Re: Filene's

@DD: Where did I say anything about letting DTX become the ass of Boston? I understand and appreciate your desire to make it all it can be, but don't exaggerate what I wrote. Not to mention, he proved it's value after my last comment.

@Statler: I see what you mean, but street level can always be improved after a building is built. You can't improve the building and it's visualimpact. Groundfloor can always be improved, but you get one shot to get the building right. And again, how many other chances will there be in this city for something like that to happen?
 
Re: Filene's

Hi gang:
Long time lurker, first time poster here. It has been noted earlier that the "host agreement" with the city is the best opportunity to get what the city wants/needs out of the project. Perhaps a key element of this project that would assure vibrancy at street level would be to link in a overhaul of the horrific DTX T station.
If it will be a construction zone anyway, Suggest opening up Summer St. between the site and Macy's and have a big re-do as part of the project. The station stinks, the platforms aren't big enough. Transferring from Red Line to Orange Line blows. Filene's Basement is never returning so incorporate that space. Create a usable facility like North Station but without the massive reconfiguration of track.
If a 600 foot tower is going in, a lot more below ground work has to happen anyway. Once the building is up it will be tough to fix the station ever. Look at this as a once-ever opportunity to turn a miserable space into a true transit center. Perhaps even incorporate some ground level space as entry/plaza.
 
Re: Filene's

^^^^^

Fix the MBTA Infrastructure first before building? Are you crazy that makes too much sense. (see Seaport District)

I already like the new GUY.
 
Re: Filene's

honestly a Target in DTX would solve everything...no hyperbole
 
Re: Filene's

^^^^

Target, CVS, Walmart.......Awesome......Talk about thinking outside the box for development in Boston. I say we re-brand the DTX area as the NEW DTX midwest Stripmall.

Hopefully we get something great in this location--Meaning Height and Ground Floor which I believe should be opened on both sides.

This is a key location.
 
Re: Filene's

type001 said:
@DD: Where did I say anything about letting DTX become the ass of Boston? I understand and appreciate your desire to make it all it can be, but don't exaggerate what I wrote. Not to mention, he proved it's value after my last comment.
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Sorry, but to me, suggesting to plop a "cool" tower there with no regard to streetlife because there are other successful districts is doing just that. It's reckless planning.

I also agree with the comment made about improving the DTX station. Connections are indeed miserable. I am also fascinated everyday by the shear number of underground concessions and shopping concourses that the Berlin U-Bahn has to offer. I'd love to see this translated to Boston and I think DTX is the prime location, as it once was a shopping concourse.
 
Re: Filene's

statler said:
We don't.

We don't have any idea about what the street scape is like, which is why praising it for for being tall and pretty is short sighted.

In order of preference:

1. Tall & pretty tower with great ground floor.

2. Bland tower with great ground floor

3. Tall & pretty tower with shitty ground floor

4. Bland tower with shitty ground floor.

I think a lot of people here would swap 2 & 3. Ugh.
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I would absolutely swap 2 and 3. type001 said it best in post 2486. You can always fix the ground floor later, put in a better store, whatever. However, you only get 1 shot at putting up the tower. Personally, I would be much prouder of having a great tower in the city than of having a better Target, supermarket, or whatever you think is appropriate for this location. If it's the wrong store, market forces will eventually correct that. If it's an eyesore tower, we are stuck with that eyesore.
 
Re: Filene's

i'm not claiming it's the classy choice but this neighborhood has no identity... it wouldn't make sense to try and fill some niche for the sake of standards...we need one big unique draw here and unfortunately the only draws that have the capability to go big are the big box stores...and this Target would be totally unique to Boston...
 
Re: Filene's

It's not always easy to fix a ground floor - for example if there are loading docks, above-grade parking, ground floor mechanicals, a valet ring, and so on. So I would say that a basic minimum of ground floor competence is better than an awesome tower. However, an awesome tower is better than an awesome ground floor - because an awesome ground floor today could still become a derelict bankrupted store tomorrow while the tower itself sticks around.
 
Re: Filene's

Shepard said:
It's not always easy to fix a ground floor - for example if there are loading docks, above-grade parking, ground floor mechanicals, a valet ring, and so on.
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Bingo. We have seen so many successful ground floor rehabs - Copley Place, International Place, Marketplace Center, InterContinental ...oh wait...
 
Re: Filene's

yea lack of parking would probably be a big turn off for a corp like Target
 
Re: Filene's

Bubbybu said:
yea lack of parking would probably be a big turn off for a corp like Target
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6 stories of parking at Woolworth's isn't enough? Besides, suburbanites wouldn't be using this Target. They can go to South Bay Center, South Shore Plaza, Stoughton, etc. This Target would be for students, daily workers, and people who live in the area. This Target would definitely sustain itself without car traffic.

Ermmm, by Woolworth's, I mean the 33 Arch St. Garage. Bit of nostalgia slipped in.
 
Re: Filene's

ahh the parkigng is there is that extensive? good to know
 
Re: Filene's

datadyne007 said:
Bingo. We have seen so many successful ground floor rehabs - Copley Place, International Place, Marketplace Center, InterContinental ...oh wait...
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I think you just proved my ground-floor rehab point by listing Copley Place. The part of Copley place that is currently NOT on the the offramp is getting a new tower with an enhanced ground floor. IP was developed when there was a freeway surrounding half of it, therefor they put the garage entrances on those sides. The other half currently has restaurants and a Starbucks, and it works. Fine, you can have IC. What is MarketPlace Center?

Hypothetically, would you be happier if the Hancock tower was replaced with a 200 ft stump that had a super ground floor? And yes, the Hancock tower is a comparable transportation hub to DTX.
 
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