National Politics Thread

[bakgwailo]

BK, I prefer your vision to mine!

But since technology is evolving much faster than human nature...

Thank you - honestly not sure if I actually believe in my vision, but, being a computer scientist I do see the writing on the wall - the march to this is continuing at a break neck pace, and I really don't think there is any derailing it at this point. Maybe with enough, or a majority of people, believing in the ultimate end goal being the upside of it (perhaps facilitated by a basic wage in the interim) we can shape things to that lofty goal. I am ever a pessimist myself, but for this I have to believe in the good of all of us. If I don't, well, it will probably lead to a return to the stone age in a generation or two. The fall will be harder than the collapse of the Roman Empire (or Han) into the dark ages.

This would be ideal direction for humanity but I believe we continue to be to selfish instead of thinking of the big picture. The powers to be will need to find a way to make money on anything that can benefit our society (they are like leeches). We are too self-absorbed trying to get one up on each other. That is the problem--That is why our younger generation idolizes keeping up with the Kardshians or listening to rap music that only promotes Money, Power, Sex.

Listen, just because I talk about the generalizations of groups doesn't mean that there aren't very bright, honorable, hard-working talented individuals in those groups. Keep that in mind. I'm talking about the overall percentage of the group not every specific individual.

If this is true--on what your wrote about yourself you should be proud.

It is the ideal direction. I do, to some extent, hold to the Socratic Method and Socrates' ideal that man only does evil out of ignorance - and we should foster this ideal to get to that next plateau of society that is ever so elusive. I also think that generalizing entire groups, by race, ethnicity, generation, etc., is pretty pointless, and, well generalizing. It only serves to seperate people form the real issues, which are simply how do we go forward as the Human Race. The solution, maybe, is to look at the great people in society, regradless of age or other groupings, that work to make a difference in various fields of study and to promote them and their knowledge as moving us forward; not to dwell on the dregs and bottom of society like realty TV, etc. We are advancing faster than humanity has ever before, and there will always be bumps. I would also take a moment to apologize - I too get caught up in ideas and defending mine, and I have only ever thought of myself as a bit of a devil's advocate/troll, and I have berated you on a few issues (well deserved as I might think it to be ), but I do appreciate your response being a bit more on the level than usual.

 

[Jouhou]

This would be ideal direction for humanity but I believe we continue to be to selfish instead of thinking of the big picture. The powers to be will need to find a way to make money on anything that can benefit our society (they are like leeches). We are too self-absorbed trying to get one up on each other. That is the problem--That is why our younger generation idolizes keeping up with the Kardshians or listening to rap music that only promotes Money, Power, Sex.




Listen, just because I talk about the generalizations of groups doesn't mean that there aren't very bright, honorable, hard-working talented individuals in those groups. Keep that in mind. I'm talking about the overall percentage of the group not every specific individual.

If this is true--on what your wrote about yourself you should be proud.

Awww thanks <3 warm and fuzzy moment with rifle

 

[odurandina]

Democrat utopianism doesn't work either;

Obama's abysmal, no make that catastrophic u6/u7;

btw, u6 eventually falls; because a shitload of people eventually will choose to work for slave wages with they have a gun pointed at their head/s. And no; fewer American workers are prospering after each successive recession since 1991. Whether you're a Democrat or Republican, including and especially after Bush and Obama. They all suck, and we all suck for claiming our respective party affiliates are our true and only saviours. Solving the country's problems will be the result of far greater cooperation than we've seen in recent years, with each respective party checking the other's cronyism.

Almost every person who posts on this board is a fanatic in one way or the other; giving far too much credit to their particular bullshit dogma. Hitlery was one of the biggest pieces of shit in all of human history. You're all damn lucky she ain't your president elect.

If Trump fails, it will be because he fails to make solving our massive energy traide deficit a major part of his plan to bring jobs back to this country. The amazing thing about most Democrat loyals is they've crucified Trump's presidency before he's even taken office, thanks to political religious fanaticism that has spiraled out of control.

THen there's Bernie Sanders; Let's really jump the shark. if you think America would prosper under Bernie Sanders, you're not taking enough drugs.

u6/u7 (updates? u7 is still near about as bad in 2017 as at any time since the effects of the Great Recession peaked in 2011/12).

https://necessaryandpropergovt.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/u3-vs-u6-vs-so-called-u7-unemployment.png

article;

https://necessaryandpropergovt.word...too-discouraged-to-look-for-work-excuse-me-2/

 

[Justin7]

I don't know WHY that happened, only THAT it happened.

Clue: Google "executive pay." Wealth used to be spread around businesses to a much greater degree. Now it all goes to the top.

And since this is the politics thread I'll add that the right has allowed this to happen and has largely stated in power only by conning the underinformed middle class at least since Reagan was elected.

As far as feminism: correlationcausationblahblah

 

[bobthebuilder]

Democrat utopianism doesn't work either;

Obama's abysmal, no make that catastrophic u6/u7;

btw, u6 eventually falls; because a shitload of people eventually will choose to work for slave wages with they have a gun pointed at their head/s. And no; fewer American workers are prospering after each successive recession since 1991. Whether you're a Democrat or Republican, including and especially after Bush and Obama. They all suck, and we all suck for claiming our respective party affiliates are our true and only saviours. Solving the country's problems will be the result of far greater cooperation than we've seen in recent years, with each respective party checking the other's cronyism.

Almost every person who posts on this board is a fanatic in one way or the other; giving far too much credit to their particular bullshit dogma. Hitlery was one of the biggest pieces of shit in all of human history. You're all damn lucky she ain't your president elect.

If Trump fails, it will be because he fails to make solving our massive energy traide deficit a major part of his plan to bring jobs back to this country. The amazing thing about most Democrat loyals is they've crucified Trump's presidency before he's even taken office, thanks to political religious fanaticism that has spiraled out of control.

THen there's Bernie Sanders; Let's really jump the shark. if you think America would prosper under Bernie Sanders, you're not taking enough drugs.

u6/u7 (updates? u7 is still near about as bad in 2017 as at any time since the effects of the Great Recession peaked in 2011/12).

https://necessaryandpropergovt.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/u3-vs-u6-vs-so-called-u7-unemployment.png

article;

https://necessaryandpropergovt.word...too-discouraged-to-look-for-work-excuse-me-2/

I'd be highly skeptical of the shadowstats alternate (what you call u7). It follows the same trend as the other unemployment lines, then just happens to keep ticking up during the Obama presidency. All other lines (U1-U6) follow the same general trend, while accounting for different classifications of people seeking work.

I found a good critique of the shadowstats here, written by Ed Dolan. It's a lengthy article, but a good critique overall. To give you a tl;dr...

The bottom line here is that the ShadowStats alternate unemployment rate of 23 percent for May 2015, and similar rates for other recent months, are completely implausible. To get an unemployment rate that high, we have to include millions of people who do not even claim to want a job, let alone make any effort to look for one.

For those of you like me that would like to see all 6 BLS unemployment rates on a single chart, see page 23 of this report that was just issued Friday.

For reference: cheat sheet on unemployment categories

 

[odurandina]

well, U7 is just the inverse of the labor participation rate but subtracting the number of those who are not able to work in the historical context.

I'd be highly skeptical of the shadowstats alternate (what you call u7).

U7 is balls on accurate (when calculated without an agenda) ....U7 even barely accounts for the sharp downward spike of self-employed employment/wages at the front lines of every downturn.... for that reason, U7 makes up for its own shortcomings from that under-accounted for statistic alone!!

in early May of 2007, my business could barely serve demand. 90 days later, my business began to fall off a cliff. That's the part of our economy that nosedived even before the recession officlally began (4th quarter of 2007).

again this diagram barely reflects the wage profile as you decay towards U7 employment. .....the updated graph directly from US BLS data (through may 2016)...... something the .gov doesn't publish directly (despite that they should).

it should be called the real threat-level of underemployment.

http://socialdemocracy21stcentury.blogspot.com/2016/06/the-real-level-of-us-unemployment.html

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QvzHU9cl...kkoZGaW3AqdqCXg7zqP8P6ACLcB/s1600/sgs-emp.gif


your business can slide right off the mountain and the government still calls you employed! ....here's the up to date u7 only minimally reflects the permanent job loss across the great swath of America......





if you're still not convinced, the diagram below offers the absolute best case directly from Obama's BLS without any adjustments or additions (pure .gov); it offers a good indication as to why Trump beat Hillary by 6.2M votes in the districts between i-5 on the west coast and i-95.

 

[KentXie]

Awesome Post++BigPicture

No need to worry about Generation X---They are all still in Rehab.

Big Picture is under paid or is it the Cost of Living that is the problem?
Which brings my theory on a decade of low interest rates and Govt spending. Caused by the BOOMERS

And now they are sucking up everyone's tax money because they didn't save enough money to support themselves in retirement and they spend the rest of the days blaming everyone but themselves.

 

[KentXie]

I'm not angry at the millennials at all. It's not their fault that they feel entitled.
It's the Baby Boomers I'm furious at, they got too greedy.

I just think the millennials are unprepared for what could happen in the next 5 years. I don't see anything positive for America's Financial situation.

America will always have an innovative soul. Thank God.

Honestly, the entitled ones are the ones who think that expect their children (the millennials), to be able to pay for a house and education just because they (the adults) could survive with a fast food job. Wake up. Time changes. Back during the Civil War era, people can get by with no education and a farm. That shit doesn't work in today's world.

 

[KentXie]

I am all for equal rights, but like to joke (seriously, it's tongue in cheek) that feminists really shot themselves in the foot and blew it for women everywhere. It used to be that a man could go to work and support an entire family, even without a college education. Women could stay home with the kids and all the necessary staples were affordable. Now women also have to work full time and their combined income is still often worse off than the man's was alone. I don't know WHY that happened, only THAT it happened. Personally, I would love to be a stay-at-home dad and not have to work for "the man" but I blew that by not dating a rich enough woman!

But basically, now many women are stuck working AND taking care of the kids on top of that. (or else most of their income is sucked away by child care) Progress isn't always forward. Obviously women SHOULD be able to work and do any job a man can do, for equal pay. However, if I had the opportunity, I'd prefer to stay home and take care of my family. That doesn't seem to be an option for many anymore, as it was for the older generations. It's a double edged sword.

I don't know, maybe it's because women, independently based on their own decision, want a career instead of needing to depend on a man for financial support. Maybe they are not doing because they HAVE to work full time but because if the husband loses his job or if she goes through a divorce, she can financially support herself or family. Maybe there's an expectation now, with more women in the workforce, that both spouses contribute to finance instead of what was in the past where women were force to accept the view that they have to be domesticated housewife. Maybe women don't want to grow up having housewife as the only job available for them. Maybe they want make contributions to society and have a meaningful life. Maybe your way of thinking is the complete opposite of why feminist exists and what women want to achieve. Maybe you should try looking at it through the perspective of a woman instead of you (a man, I assume). Maybe you should stop acting like you know what's best for them.

And by the way, if you want to be a stay at home dad, you can. There has been a rise of stay at home dads recently but this is because family roles are no longer based on gender.

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2014/06/05/growing-number-of-dads-home-with-the-kids/

This is what gender equality progress is. Like what another forum member says, correlation is not causation.

 

[kmp1284]

I'd be highly skeptical of the shadowstats ...

The word 'shadow' preceding almost anything is generally code for conspiratorial and/or far right bullshit.

 

[odurandina]

That's pretty ignorant even for what might loosely pass for a well-informed liberal.

it's been well established for a very long time that U6 doesn't reach anywhere close to the limit to properly account the true number of people seeking full-time employment, but are unable to meet the government's own standard of gainful, stable employment.

The stated desire of U6 doesn't come close in demonstrating the extent of the marginally employed.

Of course we realize, being all from the rust belt their existence must all be a hoax. ..... Yet, if you're interested in getting closer to the truth, starting with the inverse of labor participation, you can't reach anywhere near the BLS U6, numbers without reaching far further into the government's ignored masses.... That the word 'shadow underemployment', invoked would be automatically converted into a conspiracy theory for political gain should come as no surprise.

Then to trigger the alarms of political fanaticism in such few words; nicely done. i must award you the highest for your transparency and bigotry without inconveniencing our liberal utopian audience with additional banter.

Thanks for your participation. 16oz is a bit pricy, but welcome to Slaggers; (the venue for AB's political cesspool/shadow discussion).

 

[KentXie]

That's pretty ignorant even for what might loosely pass for a well-informed liberal.

it's been well established for a very long time that U6 doesn't reach anywhere close the limit to properly account the true number of people seeking full-time employment, but are unable to meet the government's own standard of gainful, stable employment.

The stated desire of U6 doesn't come close in demonstrating the extent of the marginally employed.

Of course we realize, being all from the rust belt their existence must all be a hoax. ..... Yet, if you're interested in getting closer to the truth, starting with the inverse of labor participation, you can't reach anywhere near the BLS U6, numbers without reaching far further into the government's ignored masses.... That the word 'shadow underemployment' is invoked is very telling; in that it's automatically converted into a conspiracy theory for political gain.

You've trigger the alarms of political fanaticism in so few words.

However; nicely done. i must award you the highest for your transparency and bigotry.

You do know that U6 is going to continue to get larger even with Trump as president. Why? Because he is forcing companies to bring back blue-collar job into the US where they CAN'T compete in a global market with the wage that American workers are demanding. You know what that does right? Companies find cost-cutting measures by automating their workers, i.e. robotics. So you bring back jobs to the country only to have those very same jobs replaced by robots in a few years. The issue that the rust-belt worker is facing isn't that their job is being outsourced, the issue is that the US has no demand for the skills they possess at the wage workers are demanding. The issue is a skills mis-match. Again, you solve this problem by giving the workers the tools they need to learn skills that are in demand. Bringing back jobs to the country will do little in ultra short term and nothing in the short and long term. For years, the government have been trying to increase funding in education but conservatives have been in the forefront of allocating those funds elsewhere.

 

[odurandina]

Indeed, it very well might. There's been a lot of damage done to this economy over the past several decades. It's completely possible that we've already entered what some economists refer to as a great 'meltup,' or long term climate of extreme unemployment, deflation and inflation (a slow-motion, multi-decade long collapse). It would be a coctail of biblical proportions, not the least of which is entirely Obama's fault, or even Bush's fault.... and very certainly not Trump's fault.

A decades long 'event' could be the result of so much damage that's already been done. It may finally visit us all after we kicked the can down the road for 4 decades on running endless wars, a criminal empire 3/4 of the way around the world, and infinitely massive immigration to welfare.....

It's a big deficit. We all may need a few stiff drinks before it's over.

We should someday ask the overlords how the mightiest economy on earth was undone in just a few decades.

 

[KentXie]

Indeed, it very well might. There's been a lot of damage done to this economy over the past several decades. It's completely possible that we've already entered what some economists refer to as a great 'meltup,' or long term climate of extreme unemployment, deflation and inflation (a slow-motion, multi-decade long collapse). It would be a coctail of biblical proportions, not the least of which is entirely Obama's fault, or even Bush's fault.... and very certainly not Trump's fault.

A decades long 'event' could be the result of so much damage that's already been done. It may finally visit us all after we kicked the can down the road for 4 decades on running endless wars, a criminal empire 3/4 of the way around the world, and infinitely massive immigration to welfare.....

It's a big deficit. We all may need a few stiff drinks before it's over.

We should someday ask the overlords how the mightiest economy on earth was undone in just a few decades.

Wut? Are you talking about a stagflation?

 

[Jouhou]

Oh god, the anti vaxxer thing has made it into national politics now. This should never even be up for debate. Climate change denial benefits some industries, as awful as it is I can see why they might be pushing that bs on us. Why would anyone push a pseudo science that causes death injury and lost productivity? I just got over a mild case of mumps, I am vaccinated so it wasn't severe but cost me a week of sick leave. The only reason why this is even going around is because of these antivaxxer idiots.

 

[bolehboleh]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...-mccain-alleging-secret-trump-russia-contacts

Holy fucking shit.

I still can't wrap my head around the latest developments involving Trump and his ties to Russia (and the golden shower stuff ), so I'll reserve judgement until I have a better understanding. As a challenge to my conservative friends: I hope that if this can be verified, you will condemn the president elect and call for his removal. For my liberal friends: If this information cannot be verified, I hope that you will accept that this could be "fake news" and condemn it like you would condemn any fake Breitbart article.

But let's all be honest...this is the best season of House of Cards yet!

 

[statler]

I'm holding my fire on this. I think it will end up in the 'never proven but never disproven' file. There will be lots of rumors and innuendo over the years but nothing will come of it.
But I been wrong about every other single thing this election so who knows.

 

[datadyne007]

How ironic: Trump and his team are blasting the media for picking up unsubstantiated, inflammatory leaked material harmful to his image...

Let's give him a taste of his own medicine.

Also,

Jesse Singal @jessesingal

"DJT- It must suck to be dogged by salacious rumors ppl r gonna believe forever, regardless of evidence. Hope urine decent spirits. -HRC"

https://twitter.com/jessesingal/status/819025416870629376

 

[statler]

Besides, the absolutely best case scenario in this whole mess would end with President Mike Pence. Woo hoo?

 

[DZH22]

Besides, the absolutely best case scenario in this whole mess would end with President Mike Pence. Woo hoo?

This is certainly a case of be careful what you wish for. Mike Pence would likely do more damage to liberal causes than bozo Trump.

By the way, here's another article about Jews and Obama. It mentions that member's of the mostly Jewish club are "at each other's throats" about whether or not to extend membership to Obama. I realize nobody *really* cares about the Jewish vote since it's unlikely to swing an election, but it's interesting to see the fractures in a group that once overwhelmingly sided with the Democratic party.

http://nypost.com/2017/01/10/obama-may-get-rejected-from-golf-club-over-israel-policies/

Here's my favorite quote from the article: “After the UN vote and attack on Israel, I think it probably hurts the club. If there is a club that excludes Jews, he would probably be more comfortable around those folks.”