Radian (Dainty Dot) | 120 Kingston Street | Chinatown

Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

Regarding: "The biggest change with parking is that the number of spaces has declined from 160 to 95 to 70."

HenryAlan said:
Here is the focus regarding parking. The new design is demonstrably better.
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On another thread it's stated that the groundfloor is what really matters, don't look so much at the architecture. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

But when we look at the ground floor, the bar is further lowered to suggest the project is fine as long as it is "demonstrably better" than the prior proposal. A groundfloor with ramps and above grade parking is acceptable because 5 floors of parking is now 3 floor.

So which is it on ArchBoston -- A) architecture matters, B) ground floor matters, or C) nothing really matters as long as stuff gets built?

I look at what the BRA is handing to the property owner ON THIS SITE and I'm going with A & B.

And BostonUrbEx, too bad if you heard it before. The pattern exists and the pattern is troublesome.
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

Sicilian said:
And BostonUrbEx, too bad if you heard it before. The pattern exists and the pattern is troublesome.
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? I agree with you, A and B. Especially B.
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

@ Sicillian: I was only talking only about parking. Do we no longer care about that issue?

BostonUrbEx said:
>Insert argument similar to Hayward Place about how this building was okay, now it is good, but could still be improved to be great. Limited opportunities, etc. etc. etc.<
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I don't necessarily have that opinion -- my view on this building is not fully formed. But less downtown parking should be seen by all of us as a good thing, regardless of building aesthetics.
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

@BostonUrbEx Apology. I misread your post thinking you were dismissing the discussion since it's somewhat repetitive of other threads.

@HenryAlan Henry, I interpreted "demonstrably better" that above grade parking was somehow acceptable simply because the numbers went down. I don't think above grade parking is acceptable regardless of numbers. Put parking offsite in a garage as a last resort if underground is not possible.

Whether its parking numbers or density numbers, the numbers always go down during approvals. That is how the game is played in Boston. We don't have tall buildings because of that ridiculous game -- instead of having a serious debate on the merits. The developer proposes 3x what he actually intends to have approved, then he takes a swack during approvals to appease the community. Then City Hall takes another swack to show they are listening. Then the developer takes another swack as a demonstration of good faith. Then everyone congratulates each other.
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

Outside 'Playland' earlier today. This is the location of the off-site affordable housing project that's part of the 120 Kingston project. I think it's just fixing the facade (which isn't going anywhere).

facade.jpg
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

John, this is the Hong Lok House offsite affordable housing linked with Kensington and Archstone, not 120 Kingston. The 120 Kingston is on Oxford St.

JohnAKeith said:
Outside 'Playland' earlier today. This is the location of the off-site affordable housing project that's part of the 120 Kingston project. I think it's just fixing the facade (which isn't going anywhere).

facade.jpg
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Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

Hope it happens! This is one of my favorite projects proposed or being built! I do wish they had preserve the Dainty Dot building!
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

I love the fact that more residential towers are going up in Boston.

This is the most important change in the city's character in the past 60 years. 24/7 vibrancy relies on this.
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

I agree,compared to say San Francisco,Boston is way behind in downtown high rise living,some of the outer transit stops(JFK for one) could also support these towers, giving the occupants great views of the city and bay.
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

The Dainty Dot is probably the finest mercantile building ever built in Boston, and most of it is still standing.

“Once we remove the blight of the existing building, people will be able to walk around a site that is well lit and lively,’’ said Ori Ron, a principal of Hudson Group North America, based in Swampscott.
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Some neighbors also fought for preservation of the 121-year-old Dainty Dot building, but it was denied historic status in 2007 by the Boston Landmarks Commission, which noted that its value was diminished when part of the building was lopped off in the 1950s to make way for the old elevated Central Artery.
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The original design was for the first contemporary (post 1990) building in Boston. Now we get this crap. Why? Because we don't want people to be distracted from the Greenway. Doesn't having temporary art work on the green way do the same thing.

Once again Menino shows his lack of vision and complete lack of taste. Can anyone tell me one thing of value the head of the BRA has done. Chanting yes,yes,yes,yes,yes,yes doensn't count.

Boston Landmarks Commission is already known to be the mayor's rubber stamp. Why have the commission, I hope thay aren't paid. That would be a double rape.
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

Wow, there's so much going on all of a sudden. Its gonna be a great few years for construction pics.
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

I agree with BostonObserver and am very upset to hear this appears to be going forward. I'll be hoping that Ori Ron (the genius who calls the Dainty Dot a "blight") is bluffing and underfinanced, and that the project falls through until someone can refurbish and readapt the Dainty Dot.

This is one of a small handful of projects where it seems fairly clear that the new building will be less aesthetically and architecturally appealing, and offer less potential for a good street-level experience, than what it is replacing.

... FWIW, the others are:
  • One Bromfield
  • The Suffolk art center (replacing the old MDC HQ)
  • And of course the Arlington Building / former home of Shreve Crump & Low, at the corner of Boylston and Arlington
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

It's a shame that they're knocking down the Dainty Dot...but what's even more of a shame was that the original, beautiful proposal would have kept the facade at street level...however NIMBYs complained it was too tall and didn't fit with the neighborhood...even though it's literally across the street from State Street's far-taller headquarters.

The people we should be blaming for the loss of the Dainty Dot are those NIMBYs.
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

I blame the mayor. If the 'preservationist' mayor wanted more of the old building preserved it would be preserved. If he wanted good design instead of bland there would be a better design. Menino has final say on everything, even the choice of glass on the ICA. Of course Kevin White picked the glass on One Financial Center.
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

The new building is ok from a distance. Up close?

The richness and intimacy of Dainty Dot (pun intended) makes it is difficult not to be venomous. The developer offers a faulty syllogism that boils down to Dainty Dot equals "street life death", so "shiny new building" means "street life". This superficiality bodes ill for the street level design. So, Mr. Ori, will it be a tower fortress like Avery Street or Drucker on the Common?

If the developer goes for the contextual on the Surface Artery side, will the park's Home Depo Garden Center Orientalism be setting the context? I think we see where it will go on Essex Street: Dainty Dot gets rubbed out, but his rendering promises a reverential ghost saddlebag to remind us of what was there.
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

BostonObserver said:
The Dainty Dot is probably the finest mercantile building ever built in Boston, and most of it is still standing.

...
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BosObs -- what is your definition of mercantile building?

There are a number of wharf buildings which are very fine and clearly mercantile

There are a number of exhuberant 19th Century buildings such as the Chadwick Leadworks, Cunnard Building and several others which are clearly in that category and also very fine structures.

I think that saying that " The Dainty Dot is probably the finest mercantile building ever built in Boston " -- is a bit of a stretch.
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

But none as good as the Dainty Dot, IMHO
 
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