Reasonable Transit Pitches

Why couldnt a north station south station link-tunnell run from south station into the fort point channel over the 93 tunnel (no big boats can get in anyway because of the bridge clearance) out into the harbor around the north end and wrap back in and come in under north station?
 
Why couldnt a north station south station link-tunnell run from south station into the fort point channel over the 93 tunnel (no big boats can get in anyway because of the bridge clearance) out into the harbor around the north end and wrap back in and come in under north station?

Why bother, given that they cleared out under the Expressway anyway? That would cost more; and you'd have to deal with even graver sea water intrusion problems.
 
Access from North Station to the Airport is pretty bad: a four seat ride almost no matter how you slice it: (CR-Green/Orange-Blue-Shuttle)

Reasonable transit pitch: Silver Line should add an airport circulator: North Station (curbside at the subway entrance)- Haymarket - Sumner/Callahan - Terminals
 
What if they ran silver line through dedicated guideways along the greenway, running from north station to south station, then tunnelling under to connect with the current silver line. Would make it a two seat ride to the airport, and would solve the north/south connector for relatively cheap, while not intruding into the greenway nearly as much as a ground level light rail line would.
 
I'm not sure that there's room anywhere in the Dewey Square vicinity to put a Silver Line portal. Lots of building foundations and CA/T ramps in the way.
 
Folks this is the "Reasonable Transit Pitches" thread. To stay reasonable, you may only use the world "tunnel" in the context of "existing tunnel," All new tunnel proposals should be directed to the Crazy Transit Pitches thread. Even tunnel portal is crazy.

This thread is intended to be one where you put underused bus/train together with an underserved audience by diverting service over an underused road. Or you put shelters in. Or proof-of-payment instead of fareboxes.

A perfect example (now coming true) is the Silver Line to Chelsea via the East Boston Haul Road.

What's the anticipated market for this NS-Airport link?

I don't have numbers, but can name a lot of audiences. Anyone who commutes to Boston via North Station CR or the Orange Line, and anyone who already lives/works in the city in Charlestown/Navy Yard/ North End.

Particularly if the Blue-Green connection is going to be out of service for 2 years while Gov't Center is rebuilt.

Geographically, it is the entire "basin" served by North Station with little carve-outs for people who are well-served by the Logan Express from Anderson/Woburn and Peabody (and a carve out for the whole blue line...but even the Blue line is a 2-seat ride).

Picture a big "fan" spreading from Lynn to Woburn, a circle of users in the City's core, and a finger going out the Fitchburg line.

From the North Station "basin" to the Airport there's a limited number of easy connections:
1-seat rides to Logan Airport:
Taxi / private car

2-seat rides to Logan Airport:
Blue Line to Airport Bus
Water Taxi to Airport Bus
Car/Taxi to Logan Express Woburn
Car/Taxi to Logan Express Peabody.

3-seat rides to Logan Airport
Green-Blue-Airport Bus
Orange-Blue-Airport-Bus
Green-Red-Silver
Orange-Red-Silver

But really, the North has mostly 4-seat rides (it takes one extra ride to access the 3 seat rides, above), and the Orange-Blue connection is fairly unreliable (long headways on both lines).

By comparison, from the South and Brookline/Newton if you can get yourself to South Station--which is a vast basin--the Silver Line gets you a 1-seat ride from there. 2-seat rides: as good as living along the Blue Line.

So my suggestion is to tie the Airport to North Station and Haymarket by Silver line via the Sumner/Callahan.
 
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I'm on board with this. I'll add that I think the SL Airport services should be completely disentangled from the SL Seaport - in other words, I vote to end the bizarre dual-mode experiment. Airport-SS should run on the surface in dedicated bus lane on Summer Street, one stop at BCEC and then into the TWT (this would be a hell of a lot faster than the spaghetti spiral route it currently takes). Airport-NS should, like you've said, be a surface express from NS directly into the tunnel.

These two services would serve the airport well. And taking the SL Airport out of the Piers Transitway can end one of the last excuses precluding light rail.
 
If they can install a guidance system - like are used world-round - to allow buses on the same speed as trolleys, there's no reason they can't mix in the tunnel. Same platform height, same power draw, etc.
 
What if they ran silver line through dedicated guideways along the greenway, running from north station to south station, then tunnelling under to connect with the current silver line. Would make it a two seat ride to the airport, and would solve the north/south connector for relatively cheap, while not intruding into the greenway nearly as much as a ground level light rail line would.

There's no place to incline up and put a portal because of all the I-93 ramps around Dewey Sq. The Transitway was only designed to continue out of the Dewey neighborhood entirely on one of the SL Phase III routings to Boylston St...either plowing the tunnel through Chinatown or going the long way around under the NEC to the South End. It has to slot above/below/around too many tunnels at SS to be able to come above ground anywhere in a half-mile radius from there.
 
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I think they'd do well just combining the Blue-Terminal shuttle with SL1 and having Silver loop at the Blue station at the end of its trip. Pump up the headways so nobody has degraded service quality from that consolidation, but unite the two in a complete circuit. It simplifies things a lot for the out-of-towners to have only 1 bus stop to wait at or only 1 bus stop to meet up with whoever in-town is picking them up, and given the still lack of a Red-Blue transfer Waterfront and Southie riders will prefer to take the long but relatively uncongested way through the Ted to get a seat on Blue for Eastie and Revere rather than fight the madness at DTX<-->State or Park<-->GC.
 
Actually, the speed limits in the Silver Line tunnel are there because there is no signal system, not because of fear of buses bouncing off of the wall.

When the tunnel was being designed it was decided to not be worth the considerable expense to install a signal system, as speeds would not get above an amount that would mandate one. Its only 1.2 miles from South Station to Silver Line Way, with two intermediate stops (Court House and World Trade Center). The distance from South Station To Court House is 0.5 miles, another 0.3 miles from Court House to World Trade, and another 0.3 miles from World Trade to Silver Line Way. Given the short stop spacing in a short distance, with a high frequency service, there is not much opportunity for any vehicle (bus or rail) to get up to any sort of speed above 25 mph.
 
The Massport shuttle bus is going to take over the rental car shuttle responsibilities when the new consolidated rental facility opens later this fall. The Massport shuttles will service both airport station and the rental car garage and there will be no more rental car shuttle buses. As I understand it, the existing Massport shuttle will be reconfigured from the present two routes serving the station (22 and 33) to four separate pick-up and drop off routes. So a drop-off bus will start at airport station, stop at the car rental facility and then let passengers off at the departure level at the terminals. The other pair of routes will pick up at the arrival levels of the terminals and then drop of at the Blue Line station and the rental car building. They are doing construction work right now at the Airport station busway to set up separate lanes for the buses (one for pick-ups the other for drop-offs). Massport has bought new articulated buses to handle the high-loads that will be on each trip. I don't think the new configuration would work well combined with the Silver Line.
 
The reason why I ask about the market is because public transit advocates routinely overestimate airport demand. And there already is a bus connecting North and South stations, but in all these years, the T has not seen fit to increase its span outside of peak hours.

So as an initial approximation, I don't think there's sufficient market for a new "silver line" type service from NS to Logan.

Some reasons why that might be the case:
  • People going from home to the airport tend to prefer to get a ride (e.g. shared van, taxi or friend) even if transit exists.
  • People leaving from work to the airport aren't near NS anyway, since NS is far from CBD.
  • People who commute to the airport from the north are using existing buses.

Now admittedly a bus isn't that big a commitment (unlike the huge mistake that BART-SFO was) but that means a private company could undertake it. To my knowledge that hasn't happened. Also, MassPort could pay for it, if they felt it was worthwhile.
 
The reason why I ask about the market is because public transit advocates routinely overestimate airport demand. ...
Now admittedly a bus isn't that big a commitment (unlike the huge mistake that BART-SFO was) but that means a private company could undertake it. To my knowledge that hasn't happened. Also, MassPort could pay for it, if they felt it was worthwhile.

I agree, but I also see Boston as being different (or at least more like Washington DC). The key in Boston, as in DC--in fact better than DC--will be that the Airport will be *one* stop away from downtown, not a far-flung airport at the end of a light rail milk run like at, well, basically all the great "Airport Line" failures.

At DCA, roughly 4 stops from "downtown" somethign like 20 to 40% of flyers now arrive by subway (I think it is in the high 30s but couldn't confirm that). The Silver Line would be like that or better if it went to Haymarket and NS.

The list *is* long of transit-for-tourists being a failure, but they are mostly in places with airports that are (1) farther from city center--and many painful stops in very grim places (2) in cities with a less-dense transit network and (3) places building extravagant rail thinking the airport will "anchor" it (4) with less auto congestion and (5) worse terminal location (BWI is particularly lame, with light rail, after crawling out of the city, snaking through undense hinterlands, finally comes in at the farthest, unbusiest, "military charter" end of the airport...picture walking through 4 "Terminal D" distances to get from the Southwest Airlines end (Terminal A) to the Light Rail stop. Horrible.

In all those places they spend too much on laying track too far, too many stops "out, on a trip that really *is* superior by car.

Meanwhile Boston has (1) a decent "car free" constituency (2) a good network at NS (3) excellent Silver Line "last mile" going right to the terminals (4) probably would get decent employee patronage (the real key to airport transit) and (5) we are not talking any new right of way and (6) based on proximity it doesn't take that many buses or drivers to extend service such a short distance. (7) service would be basically express from the terminals to NS/Haymarket (no awful intermediate stops between airport and downtown such as cripple the Denver, BWI, Cleveland, O'Hare, Midway, SFO, DFW, DAL (coming soon), and well, basically anyplace but DC.)
 
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http://onlinepubs.trb.org/onlinepubs/acrp/acrp_rpt_004.pdf

I don't have time right now but this is probably the report you were thinking about, if you were interested in reading it with me. I'll look through it later this weekend.

I still think that car-free people who want to take transit to the airport probably already live near subways or buses which take them to the Blue line or South Station. But I'm certainly open to the idea if it can be demonstrated.

P.S. I saw BWI's light rail earlier this year, yeah... but why take it, when Amtrak/MARC are more convenient?
 
I put a map together to add DMUs to the MBTA Commuter Rail service. My thinking is that the DMUs would take over the commuter rail stations in the inner ring suburbs, especially because a lot of those are bunched together; although, I think some of the DMU lines I drew might be a bit too long.

Link
 
I put a map together to add DMUs to the MBTA Commuter Rail service. My thinking is that the DMUs would take over the commuter rail stations in the inner ring suburbs, especially because a lot of those are bunched together; although, I think some of the DMU lines I drew might be a bit too long.

Link

I think Worcester, Fitchburg, Reading and Fairmount are the best lines for DMU-ing/EMU-ing. I'd cut the Worcester one off to Riverside rather than run all the way to Framingham. Fitchburg could use it to 128 because Belmont is loathe to allow rapid transit through (Red or Green). Fairmount is pretty much set up for it, and can't be converting to rapid-transit. Haverhill will get booted to the Lowell/Wildcat alignment eventually, especially when the N-S Link comes around, meaning Reading may as well get "Fairmounted" as a way stop-gap, and probably eventual conversion to Orange.

The Eastern Route doesn't really need it, and the Blue Line would be higher priority for improving that corridor. I don't think that the Old Colony can support DMU headways plus Commuter Trains until the the corridor is double-tracked in Dorchester. Needham can't support the headways either because the NEC takes priority over anything routed that way. Needham Line needs a Green/Orange pairing each taking half of the route. The Franklin and Stoughton lines could probably support it if they were routed over the Fairmount Line rather than the NEC.
 
I think Worcester, Fitchburg, Reading and Fairmount are the best lines for DMU-ing/EMU-ing. I'd cut the Worcester one off to Riverside rather than run all the way to Framingham. Fitchburg could use it to 128 because Belmont is loathe to allow rapid transit through (Red or Green). Fairmount is pretty much set up for it, and can't be converting to rapid-transit. Haverhill will get booted to the Lowell/Wildcat alignment eventually, especially when the N-S Link comes around, meaning Reading may as well get "Fairmounted" as a way stop-gap, and probably eventual conversion to Orange.

The Eastern Route doesn't really need it, and the Blue Line would be higher priority for improving that corridor. I don't think that the Old Colony can support DMU headways plus Commuter Trains until the the corridor is double-tracked in Dorchester. Needham can't support the headways either because the NEC takes priority over anything routed that way. Needham Line needs a Green/Orange pairing each taking half of the route. The Franklin and Stoughton lines could probably support it if they were routed over the Fairmount Line rather than the NEC.

Yeah. Your three other applications with the capacity to handle it are:

1) Worcester Line to Riverside -- SS, BBY, Yawkey, Allston/New Balance, Newton Corner, Newtonville, West Newton, Auburndale, Riverside.
2) Western Route to Reading -- NS, Malden Ctr., Wyoming Hill, Melrose/Cedar Park, Melrose Highlands, Greenwood, Wakefield, Quannapowitt/Route 128, Reading.
3) Fitchburg Line to 128 -- NS, Porter Sq., Belmont Ctr., Waverley, Beaver Brook, Clematis Brook, Waltham Ctr., Brandeis/Roberts, Weston/128.

(infill stops in italics)

--------------------

1) All Worcester needs to run dense overlapping service is more numerous crossovers inside 128. Right now there are none whatsoever between the west end of Beacon Park and Wellesley Farms, which is why the Newton schedule has to be so limited. If you did 1 set of crossovers per every 2 stations the thru trains would have ample opportunity to pass. And maybe keep one of the ex-Beacon Park lead tracks as a thru 3rd track around Allston/New Balance, since that would act as your "once every two" passing opportunity on the Yawkey-Allston-Newton Corner stretch.

I wouldn't run this all the way to Framingham because the gates at the grade crossings will be down way too often, and those crossings may be physically impossible to eliminate. It's also a pretty long trip on the schedule; you ideally want your "Fairmountings" to hang close to 30 minutes. All-stops (except Riverside) to Framingham probably still pushes 45 mins. even if the speed limit on the line gets raised because of 13 stops en route. Better to cover with overlapping service patterns: Riverside locals, Worcester directs that skip everything inside 128, Framingham locals that maybe skip a couple low-demand inside-128 stops, and Worcester super-expresses that run nonstop to Framingham. Mix and match on whatever service hours to fit the demand curve.


2) Nothing needs to be done to Reading except to permanently boot the Haverhill Line back to its former Lowell Line routing and reinstate the Salem St. stop on the Wildcat Branch to replace North Wilmington (Salem St.'s a better location than N. Wil. anyway). Reading today is about 30 mins. on the button. Figure a faster-accelerating vehicle can make the same time with extra Route 128 stop infilled. Possible consolidation of Wyoming Hill and Melrose/Cedar Park if you can sell town of Melrose on the idea (I doubt it).


3) Only major thing the Fitchburg Line needs is that 128 stop in the sand pits/industrial park at Exit 26 under the Route 20 rotary. Which would knock out Kendal Green, Hastings, and Silver Hill in one fell swoop. The rest is pretty much ready-made, and there wouldn't need to be much crossover work here because the thru Fitchburg schedule isn't too dense for overlap. Beaver Brook (at Beaver St. grade crossing on the 554 bus), and Clematis Brook (under the Route 20 overpass on the 70/70A...disused platform still there) were regular stops until 1978, dropped for schedule savings when the line was re-extended from South Acton to Gardner. Those can be reinstated. Alewife probably isn't necessary because of the Red transfer at Porter, would be somewhat of a walk, and would require a grade crossing of the T's maintenance yard tracks to exit the platform. Note that when they finish the ongoing signal work next year the speeds are going to pick up noticeably and it'll hit Brandeis a good 3-5 mins faster than today.



Eastern Route is no-go because there is not enough capacity through the Somerville track merge to mix clock-facing Eastern and Western Route DMU's. You can do it with Reading because those trains can easily hold for a passing Newburyport/Rockport train without undue schedule penalty. But start doing both and Newburyport/Rockport schedules have to be cut back. And that is not acceptable with the ridership.

Old Colony doesn't have the capacity through the single-tracking, and is superfluous because the Red Line already covers it with consecutive transfers at JFK, Quincy Ctr., and Braintree. Give up dreams of forking to Randolph Ctr. or Weymouth...it ain't happening without a billion dollars of construction around Savin Hill. Get better bus transfers to cover the need.

Needham is impossible because of the NEC congestion out to Forest Hills that's only going to get worse, and people will not ride a high-frequency dinky that gives up their one-seat with a forced transfer at Forest Hills. This has to graduate to the rapid transit system...there's no other way.

Lowell Line certainly has the capacity, but has such wide stop spacing to begin with that the upside of DMU vs. push-pull is much narrower. It is only about 27 minutes to Anderson as-is on track that is hardly as fast as it could/should be. GLX obviates any need for inner infills...and Woburn in the Montvale Ave. area is the only other place that really needs a stop (trade in Mishawum for that one). Plus, if you could get town of Winchester to stop screaming about it they could arguably push for outright elimination of Wedgemere if a Winchester Ctr.-West Medford-Route 16 bus ran at high enough frequency to make the GLX transfer at 16 superior to the CR schedule. I would say service frequency is adequately served by more West Medford buses looping at Route 16; booting Haverhill trains over to double-up frequencies at Winchester Ctr., Anderson, and Wilmington; adding that Woburn infill to both Lowell and Haverhill trains; and long-term addition of NHDOT Concord service expressing straight from Anderson to NS. By 2025 Anderson could be about as close to clock-facing service as a regular vanilla push-pull CR stop could ever be.



My question is...is this enough to justify buying a DMU fleet with the market for that vehicle still so immature? Electrifying Fairmount probably doesn't cost much more than a unicorn fleet when Providence and RIDOT South County CR would pool all the same electric equipment in much greater scale. Worcester isn't that big a deal either if they wanted to stage the wires buildout Riverside first, Framingham second, Worcester third. And the 2 northside applications already fit neatly within a 30-minute schedule slot with no physical plant modifications whatsoever, so what's the X-factor for using different equipment? Yes, there's a performance difference...but how big a difference would make people sit up, take notice, and take the train when they don't today? The trip time from Reading, Waltham, and points inbound already beats the concurrent buses and is well within the realm of convenience. All those riders want is real frequency and actual stops with parking at 128 where those lines currently have none. I think push-pull works just fine for the first 15 years of the Reading and Waltham rollouts.
 

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