Regional Rail (RUR) & North-South Rail Link (NSRL)

Re: North-South Rail Link

Well to take an example from the past, there was a time when it was illegal to park overnight on the street in NYC, and everyone was expected to rent or own a garage space. Eventually people started disregarding the law so much that the city gave up and permitted street parking. But garage parking is a lot more space efficient than street parking. But it's also a lot more expensive to build and provision. So there's a lot of political pressure.

I believe Tokyo provides a nice example of a city that held firm to its parking policy and made pretty creative and effective use of space for those who wished to own a car. I don't know if we're politically capable of adopting their methods though, e.g. the proof-of-parking requirement and an on-street parking ban in nearly all districts.

And of course in both NYC and Tokyo the rate of car ownership per capita is much much lower than elsewhere. Because even with clever space usage, geometry still rules.

I'm speaking from personal experience when I say that I hear NIMBYs try to wrangle over parking requirements. I'm sure they would find other excuses too, but it is a pretty big bone of contention in meetings. I've read that blog article and others, and I'm a fan of more efficient use of existing supply, and I always have my eye out for a better answer but how do you get them implemented? That's the real difficulty.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

I believe Tokyo provides a nice example of a city that held firm to its parking policy and made pretty creative and effective use of space for those who wished to own a car. I don't know if we're politically capable of adopting their methods though, e.g. the proof-of-parking requirement and an on-street parking ban in nearly all districts.

Also, I think Tokyo has mostly tiny city-cars and automated stacking garages in which to store them... that makes a dent in the geometry problem as well.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

Arena says New York is "about to pass Massachusetts in terms of tech" and said Massachusetts and New England trail New York City, Washington D.C. and Baltimore in investments in high-speed rail. Those mid-Atlantic areas are making the investments as part of economic development strategies.

I think this quote is something that really needs to be driven home across the board. It won't be good for Boston if the Tech companies look elsewhere to set up shop. Tech companies have young employees; young employees want to be able to live in an area that is well served by public transit. One of the many reasons that we NEED big time public transit spending. I know most everyone here knows this, I'm just sayin.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

Reasonable Transit Pitch
Extend SL4 from Essex/Atlantic to North Station Via Atlantic (northbound) and Purchase (southbound) with stops at Aquarium and Haymarket. Turn-around via N. Washington St. and Haverhill between Avenir and Victor. There are underutilized North Station subway entrances there. True street-running BRT and there is plenty of space for it.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

Dukakis said he’s been unable to persuade Gov. Deval Patrick to endorse the project but pointed to support from Walsh and DeLeo. Walsh is getting started on his four-year term at City Hall and with Patrick and Senate President Therese Murray leaving their positions after this year, DeLeo is poised next year to become the most senior official in the powerful triumvirate at the State House that over the years has come to be known as the Big Three.
"The Speaker is strongly for the project, always has been," Dukakis said. "You have a mayor who wants this." Support from those two key players, he said, represents a "very significant change in things." A DeLeo aide confirmed Monday that the Winthrop Democrat strongly supports the rail link.

hmm
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

I want to believe so bad, but I've been hurt before.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

The bond bill includes a couple million dollars to update the Draft Environmental Impact Report for the right of way for NSRL. It basically ensures that if a few billion were to fall from the heavens, and we decided we didn't want to spend it on other projects, this would be ready to take off the shelf and get to work on.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

Reasonable Transit Pitch
Extend SL4 from Essex/Atlantic to North Station Via Atlantic (northbound) and Purchase (southbound) with stops at Aquarium and Haymarket. Turn-around via N. Washington St. and Haverhill between Avenir and Victor. There are underutilized North Station subway entrances there. True street-running BRT and there is plenty of space for it.

That is reasonable. And fairly obvious, now that you have pointed it out ;)

Has this never been considered by the MBTA? Is it redundant with some other bus service?
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

MBTA route 4 is similar but a bit more roundabout. And infrequent.

I have to wonder, is there really so much all-day demand for a bus between NS and SS?

Plus, by "street running BRT" you mean a bus lane on Atlantic Ave?
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

This is an instance where mode really matters. SS-NS(-Navy Yard?) bus would be an abject failure. The same route with a trolley would be an instant success.

Anyway, I'd file this in the "nice to have" folder.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

MBTA route 4 is similar but a bit more roundabout. And infrequent.

I have to wonder, is there really so much all-day demand for a bus between NS and SS?

Plus, by "street running BRT" you mean a bus lane on Atlantic Ave?

Demand? Maybe. There are employment centers and tourist centers along the route in the Financial District, Fanueil Hall, and Aquarium. For people arriving at South Station by commuter rail, going red line to orange line (State, Haymarket, N. Station) or red line to Green Line (Haymarket, GC, N. Station) to access those locations really sucks and put a lot of stress on Park and DTX. I have never done North Station to Financial District at rush hour so I can't comment on that.

My thought here is that it is really really low cost and could get people out of the central subway. With only 4 stops total (SS, State Street/Aquarium, Haymarket or Hanover St. and NS) it could be a fairly quick ride. It doesn't really have that much impact on SL4 but I would probably need an additional vehicle or three. The route already uses Atlantic and Purchase streets.

As for BRT, I don't know how much dedicated lane you could get but I think there is room for dedicated stops and some painted lane like Essex. A lot of it is 3+ lanes each direction. Also enhanced shelters.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

This is an instance where mode really matters. SS-NS(-Navy Yard?) bus would be an abject failure. The same route with a trolley would be an instant success.

Anyway, I'd file this in the "nice to have" folder.

Trolley/Modern Street Car would be awesome but I'm not sure that an articulated bus would be an abject failure. My thoughts here are mostly low low cost, ease of implementation, diversion from central subway, and connectivity.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

Speculating why the MBTA does not run a frequent NS/SS bus: Most people arriving on the south side commuter rail/Amtrak but going to North Station would transfer at Back Bay. Only Fairmount and Old Colony cannot do that and they are the less ridden lines, so far. Also, most passengers arriving at SS are walking to their final destination.

As for BRT, I don't know how much dedicated lane you could get but I think there is room for dedicated stops and some painted lane like Essex. A lot of it is 3+ lanes each direction. Also enhanced shelters.
Atlantic Avenue should be reduced a lane, but to help make the Greenway a real park. Turning it into a bus lane would be an improvement, but would not help the park.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

I scoured through the posts quickly and didn't see anything, so sorry if I missed it. But does a graphical representation of the rough NSL route exist anywhere?
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

It would be under the CAT/RFK Greenway.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

I don't think you can judge demand for a new service by evaluating current demand. People form their habits, especially commuting, around the transit network that currently exists. A N/S rail link (or even a crappy Silver Line substitution) gives people more options for where to live depending on where they work. Or where to work depending on where they live. It gives everyone more options for dining, shopping, and entertainment. Most importantly though, adding connectivity to the network makes it a better network and makes the city more permeable. The best capacity increase we can give the system is relief from the crush at transfer stations.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

I'm not judging demand for the NSRL based on the route 4 bus. I think that the route 4 bus says something about the demand for a bus connection. But it does not say anything about the demand for a thru-running rail connection, something that would completely transform the way people commute in the city.

In other words, few people, if anyone, are making a trip that involves 2 commuter rail trips with a bus connection in between. But I think a lot of people would make a trip that was a single commuter rail trip that passed through the same points.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

hello! I am just jumping in to revive this thread.....maybe. If we were to connect North Station and South Station, how would be drill a tunnel to connect them?

Would we have to bulldoze the Post Office next to South Station and then use that area as an entrance of some tunnel?

Would we have a tunnel through Downtown or go underneath the water and through Charlestown and then connect to the rails near the MBTA maintenance facility in Cambridge?
 

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