Regional Rail (RUR) & North-South Rail Link (NSRL)

Re: North-South Rail Link

Tunnel already exists within the Big Dig tunnel structure. The only digging you'd have to do would be the portals, and to clear out the fill that's stuffed down there as a place holder.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

underground said:
Tunnel already exists within the Big Dig tunnel structure. The only digging you'd have to do would be the portals, and to clear out the fill that's stuffed down there as a place holder.
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So the would be tunnel is essentially underneath the current I-93 highway?
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

kevtron2000 said:
Good. Though, if it is already there, why aren't we currently trying to connect them? Is it the high cost? o_O
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The tunnel is provided for - future-proofed - but it's not done or ready. The costs of preparing it are an issue. Each built portal is an issue. Electrification of any line that wants to use it (or buying a new fleet of dual-mode locomotives) is an issue.

It's all quite expensive.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

BussesAin'tTrains said:
The tunnel is provided for - future-proofed - but it's not done or ready. The costs of preparing it are an issue. Each built portal is an issue. Electrification of any line that wants to use it (or buying a new fleet of dual-mode locomotives) is an issue.

It's all quite expensive.
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Ya. Probably in the billions of dollars range. So the building next to North Station and the two buildings next to South Station would be demolished, if portals have to built?
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

kevtron2000 said:
Ya. Probably in the billions of dollars range. So the building next to North Station and the two buildings next to South Station would be demolished, if portals have to built?
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Portals would not be on the old Shawmut Peninsula. The first build would probably include 2 portals.

One probably on the Harrison/Albany block of the MassPike cut that would accommodate both the Worcester Line and the NEC.

Another would lie either directly northwest of Boston Sand & Gravel or somewhere beyond that behind the Boston Engine Terminal. That portal would accommodate both the Eastern Route (Newburyport/Rockport) and the New Hampshire Maine (Lowell) -- plus the Western Route (Haverhill) technically.

No other portals would likely be built initially. No portals would be built adjacent to North Station or South Station. There would be a North Station Under and a South Station Under that are self-contained from the surface terminals.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

BussesAin'tTrains said:
The tunnel is provided for - future-proofed - but it's not done or ready.
Click to expand...
For those just joining us (welcome, Kevtron), the space in which the NSRL would go is currently 100% clean fill dirt--which is no minor thing (having no archaeological sites, utilities, or any other structure (such as has killed Bertha under Seattle).

It means building a tunnel will be as easy and predictable as it can be--but you still have to pick a size (how many tracks?) and a technology (TBM?) and the location and number of South portals, and then build it.

There's a tradeoff: 2-track is easy and can fit a station, but then that station gums up the works. 3-track seems a sad compromise, but 4-track, while maximizing thorughput calls into question whether you can wedge a Central Station in at Aquarium (it'd be hard).
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

Arlington said:
For those just joining us (welcome, Kevtron), the space in which the NSRL would go is currently 100% clean fill dirt--which is no minor thing (having no archaeological sites, utilities, or any other structure (such as has killed Bertha under Seattle).

It means building a tunnel will be as easy and predictable as it can be--but you still have to pick a size (how many tracks?) and a technology (TBM?) and the location and number of South portals, and then build it.

There's a tradeoff: 2-track is easy and can fit a station, but then that station gums up the works. 3-track seems a sad compromise, but 4-track, while maximizing thorughput calls into question whether you can wedge a Central Station in at Aquarium (it'd be hard).
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"Central - Aquarium - Station" needs to end up on the cutting room floor. If RT goes along for the ride, give a bare bones "Aquarium Under" station for that, but it really balloons the cost - for little real benefit - to have platforms for locomotives deep under State Street.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

BussesAin'tTrains said:
"Central - Aquarium - Station" needs to end up on the cutting room floor. If RT goes along for the ride, give a bare bones "Aquarium Under" station for that, but it really balloons the cost - for little real benefit - to have platforms for locomotives deep under State Street.
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Hopefully we can keep Stephanie away from this discussion -- otherwise we'll start getting leaks about how to spend a few $Ms and get non-existent Federal $Bs

Of course she might be lurking or even masquerading as one of the AB Forum members
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

Arlington said:
For those just joining us (welcome, Kevtron), the space in which the NSRL would go is currently 100% clean fill dirt--which is no minor thing (having no archaeological sites, utilities, or any other structure (such as has killed Bertha under Seattle).

It means building a tunnel will be as easy and predictable as it can be--but you still have to pick a size (how many tracks?) and a technology (TBM?) and the location and number of South portals, and then build it.

There's a tradeoff: 2-track is easy and can fit a station, but then that station gums up the works. 3-track seems a sad compromise, but 4-track, while maximizing thorughput calls into question whether you can wedge a Central Station in at Aquarium (it'd be hard).
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Thanks for the info! I don't think there is an urgent need for a Central Station at Aquarium because there is already 2 terminals for rail, but if people can prove otherwise.....then go for it. If HSR were to go through Boston to say Montreal, I think there would have to be two dedicated tracks. Two tracks for MBTA/Regular Amtrak and 2 tracks for HSR/Regular Amtrak?
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

whighlander said:
Hopefully we can keep Stephanie away from this discussion -- otherwise we'll start getting leaks about how to spend a few $Ms and get non-existent Federal $Bs

Of course she might be lurking or even masquerading as one of the AB Forum members
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I'm glad she'll be there, given that Baker hadn't mentioned much of anything about transit so far. To place a liberal transit advocate at DOT suggests he'll be looking to her for Big Ideas, that can be tempered and moderated by the wonk crowd in the Governor's office. Seems like a net win to me.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

BussesAin'tTrains said:
I'm glad she'll be there, given that Baker hadn't mentioned much of anything about transit so far. To place a liberal transit advocate at DOT suggests he'll be looking to her for Big Ideas, that can be tempered and moderated by the wonk crowd in the Governor's office. Seems like a net win to me.
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Does Governor Baker want anything in particular for infrastructure in Mass as a top priority at the moment?
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

kevtron2000 said:
Does Governor Baker want anything in particular for infrastructure in Mass as a top priority at the moment?
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Unknown. He's been pretty mum on transit issues. Probably because transit infrastructure costs $ and he's against raising new revenue (through new taxes at least). He's smart enough, and pragmatic enough to know that improvements need to be made to ensure MA's continued success, and the success of the Boston-metro in particular. This choice for DOT-head seems to indicate that he's tracking the right ball. Hopefully he'll be able to pare back true boondoggles (looking at you South Coast Rail) and advocate for more meaningful, bang-for-buck projects.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

kevtron2000 said:
Thanks for the info! I don't think there is an urgent need for a Central Station at Aquarium because there is already 2 terminals for rail, but if people can prove otherwise.....then go for it. If HSR were to go through Boston to say Montreal, I think there would have to be two dedicated tracks. Two tracks for MBTA/Regular Amtrak and 2 tracks for HSR/Regular Amtrak?
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The idea would be either 2 tracks for intercity/commuter rail, and 2 for rapid transit, or 2 tracks for commuter rail and 2 tracks for intercity. Odds are the initial build will only include 2 tracks total, with provisions for the additional tracks as demand increases.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

BussesAin'tTrains said:
Unknown. He's been pretty mum on transit issues. Probably because transit infrastructure costs $ and he's against raising new revenue (through new taxes at least). He's smart enough, and pragmatic enough to know that improvements need to be made to ensure MA's continued success, and the success of the Boston-metro in particular. This choice for DOT-head seems to indicate that he's tracking the right ball. Hopefully he'll be able to pare back true boondoggles (looking at you South Coast Rail) and advocate for more meaningful, bang-for-buck projects.
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I noticed that too. I wasn't a major supporter of either of the major candidates during the last election, so I went for independent Falchuk, since he was open to maintaining infrastructure spending and I don't necessarily oppose Baker, since he is quite moderate.

BussesAin'tTrains said:
The idea would be either 2 tracks for intercity/commuter rail, and 2 for rapid transit, or 2 tracks for commuter rail and 2 tracks for intercity. Odds are the initial build will only include 2 tracks total, with provisions for the additional tracks as demand increases.
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seems reasonable. The goal of the connection is to make travel easier going through Boston for regional of intercity travel.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

kevtron2000, if you're interested, page 2 of this thread has a pretty detailed explanation of the plan by F-line to Dudley, one of the most respected/knowledgeable transit posters on this forum.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

BussesAin'tTrains said:
The idea would be either 2 tracks for intercity/commuter rail, and 2 for rapid transit, or 2 tracks for commuter rail and 2 tracks for intercity. Odds are the initial build will only include 2 tracks total, with provisions for the additional tracks as demand increases.
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With four tracks you would be using all four tracks for commuter rail (at greatly increased frequencies) and mixing intercity trains into slots when needed.

Intercity frequencies are much less often and more regular than commuter rail. You wouldn't build all that infrastructure and then let half of it sit idle during time of great need.

For example, the 4 East River tracks are mostly used by LIRR. Amtrak threads in every so often.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

So lets say the link gets built in a decade or two, and that in the meantime the T has built out its planned Indigo DMUs. What gets routed through the Link? If its only built with 2 tracks, would it make sense to keep through routed CR to a minimium, and instead turn the Link into a tunnel linking the MU services? It could be pitched as creating an all new rapid transit network, while still allowing slots for thru routed Amtraks and some off peak/late night CR.

IMO this makes way more sense than using 2 tracks for the red line, as you can intermingle Amtrak/CR traffic if/when the expanded South Station hits capacity.
 
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Re: North-South Rail Link

Would adding a 3rd track along most of the Providence line make Rapid EMU's Frequencies possible?
 
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