JeffDowntown
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Re: North-South Rail Link
And costly deep stations. And multiple portals on both ends.
And costly deep stations. And multiple portals on both ends.
Regional Rail (RUR) & North-South Rail Link (NSRL)
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Digital_Islandboy
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Re: North-South Rail Link
Yes.... Two pair of tracks is always best. The lack of such is why the MBTA is such a mess today. All it takes is one train breakdown and everything grinds to a halt (in both directions) when there's only 2 tracks. At least if you have 4 tracks and a train breaksdown on one, things can get re-routed to keep things moving. Or you can even take one set of tracks out of service to do regular repairs and not have to replace with all shuttle bussing as you have to do all the time on the MBTA. Even to do regular maintnance on weekends at time-and-a-half-salary. Or at night when it costs even more still to staff people then.
Yes.... Two pair of tracks is always best. The lack of such is why the MBTA is such a mess today. All it takes is one train breakdown and everything grinds to a halt (in both directions) when there's only 2 tracks. At least if you have 4 tracks and a train breaksdown on one, things can get re-routed to keep things moving. Or you can even take one set of tracks out of service to do regular repairs and not have to replace with all shuttle bussing as you have to do all the time on the MBTA. Even to do regular maintnance on weekends at time-and-a-half-salary. Or at night when it costs even more still to staff people then.
Proposition Joe
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Re: North-South Rail Link
Ari's post makes the mistake of assuming that the location of NS surface platforms would be approximately the same as the location of the NS NSRL platforms. In fact, the incumbent plan calls for a 'NS' tunnel platform more or less midway between NS and Haymarket - which is about where Ari says the 2nd NSRL station should be anyway. (And the arena & GL / OR connections mean that there needs to be a station in that general area anyway...)
Ari's post makes the mistake of assuming that the location of NS surface platforms would be approximately the same as the location of the NS NSRL platforms. In fact, the incumbent plan calls for a 'NS' tunnel platform more or less midway between NS and Haymarket - which is about where Ari says the 2nd NSRL station should be anyway. (And the arena & GL / OR connections mean that there needs to be a station in that general area anyway...)
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Re: North-South Rail Link
^That was my conclusion: Ari is right in suggesting 2 stations, but wrong in thinking that GC is the only alternative.
A NS-Haymarket station is already provisioned for, and depending on how deep and exact location, can practically reach either Aquarium or State on the Blue via escalators and moving sidewalk (particularly an inclined moving sidewalk). It would end up like Grand Central Terminal (89 E 48th St) or Chicago Union Station (Madison St Entrance) in that all you really need is extra fingers of egress reaching out from both ends.
^That was my conclusion: Ari is right in suggesting 2 stations, but wrong in thinking that GC is the only alternative.
A NS-Haymarket station is already provisioned for, and depending on how deep and exact location, can practically reach either Aquarium or State on the Blue via escalators and moving sidewalk (particularly an inclined moving sidewalk). It would end up like Grand Central Terminal (89 E 48th St) or Chicago Union Station (Madison St Entrance) in that all you really need is extra fingers of egress reaching out from both ends.
JohnAKeith
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Re: North-South Rail Link
Is the proposed route detailed enough to show what would happen at North Station? Like, it has to come above ground at some point, right? I might be missing something obvious, but how would this work / where, etc.?
Is the proposed route detailed enough to show what would happen at North Station? Like, it has to come above ground at some point, right? I might be missing something obvious, but how would this work / where, etc.?
JumboBuc
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Re: North-South Rail Link
It'd come above ground north of the river up by NorthPoint.
http://www.northsouthraillink.org/alignment/
It'd come above ground north of the river up by NorthPoint.
http://www.northsouthraillink.org/alignment/
odurandina
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Re: North-South Rail Link
Except when taking the case of our coldest winter days, the difference in our scale of distance of Boston vs Manhattan or Los Angeles is very remarkable. Choose either North or South Station what's the longest walk?
Still way shorter than bazillions of Manhattan or LA walks.
Except when taking the case of our coldest winter days, the difference in our scale of distance of Boston vs Manhattan or Los Angeles is very remarkable. Choose either North or South Station what's the longest walk?
Still way shorter than bazillions of Manhattan or LA walks.
Re: North-South Rail Link
Note location of North Station platforms for NSRL.
Also, I think by this point everyone recognizes that Central Station makes no sense and will never be built. Makes much more sense to find a way to connect the BL to the NS / Haymarket platform (either directly or through e.g. a ped link under sudbury or new chardon)
Note location of North Station platforms for NSRL.
Also, I think by this point everyone recognizes that Central Station makes no sense and will never be built. Makes much more sense to find a way to connect the BL to the NS / Haymarket platform (either directly or through e.g. a ped link under sudbury or new chardon)
JohnAKeith
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Re: North-South Rail Link
Thank you. What was obvious was that some of this was discussed in posts just two up from where i started reading, lol.
Thank you. What was obvious was that some of this was discussed in posts just two up from where i started reading, lol.
Re: North-South Rail Link
An additional Widdet (Amazon HQ or Andrew North) station on the commuter rail would work well. This is assuming that they can electrify all of the lines (electric trains can stop and start quicker).
An additional Widdet (Amazon HQ or Andrew North) station on the commuter rail would work well. This is assuming that they can electrify all of the lines (electric trains can stop and start quicker).
JeffDowntown
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Re: North-South Rail Link
All the lines using the NSRL have to be electrified. The inclines are too steep for diesel locomotives (and the provisioning for exhaust removal would be very costly).
All the lines using the NSRL have to be electrified. The inclines are too steep for diesel locomotives (and the provisioning for exhaust removal would be very costly).
fattony
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Re: North-South Rail Link
I cannot figure out what this means. What is the point of stopping the train if there is no station to enter/exit the train? This isn't the surface-running Green Line - there is no "less than an entire station." There is either a station where the train stops or there isn't a station and the train doesn't stop.
I cannot figure out what this means. What is the point of stopping the train if there is no station to enter/exit the train? This isn't the surface-running Green Line - there is no "less than an entire station." There is either a station where the train stops or there isn't a station and the train doesn't stop.
Re: North-South Rail Link
Calling it "Central Station" sort of implies to me that it would be similar in size and scope to something like North or South Station rather than a regular subway stop.
Calling it "Central Station" sort of implies to me that it would be similar in size and scope to something like North or South Station rather than a regular subway stop.
fattony
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Re: North-South Rail Link
Well, it won't be a terminal, so it wouldn't look like NS or SS do now. It would be one or 2 platforms and that's all.
Personally I'm against central station and would prefer to see that money put into underground circulation (moving walkways, escalators, etc).
Well, it won't be a terminal, so it wouldn't look like NS or SS do now. It would be one or 2 platforms and that's all.
Personally I'm against central station and would prefer to see that money put into underground circulation (moving walkways, escalators, etc).
DominusNovus
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Re: North-South Rail Link
Quick question: Is the plan to electrify the relevant lines before starting on the NSRL or will the two projects be in conjunction?
Quick question: Is the plan to electrify the relevant lines before starting on the NSRL or will the two projects be in conjunction?
Re: North-South Rail Link
Yeah that's what I was thinking. Ideally it would just be within Aquarium.
Yeah that's what I was thinking. Ideally it would just be within Aquarium.
fattony
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Re: North-South Rail Link
If by "in Aquarium" you mean 150 feet (12-15 stories) below the surface:
The depth is mind boggling. That is why many folks see inclined moving walkways and escalators to be decent solutions to distributing people from the underground stations to distant locations. It isn't like you just hop off the BL and onto the CR. It will be a massive elevator or a dizzying series of escalators. You might as well use those escalators to traverse some distance in an east/west fashion and not just straight up/down.
If by "in Aquarium" you mean 150 feet (12-15 stories) below the surface:
The depth is mind boggling. That is why many folks see inclined moving walkways and escalators to be decent solutions to distributing people from the underground stations to distant locations. It isn't like you just hop off the BL and onto the CR. It will be a massive elevator or a dizzying series of escalators. You might as well use those escalators to traverse some distance in an east/west fashion and not just straight up/down.
bigpicture7
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Re: North-South Rail Link
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the electrification requirement also mean that large stretches of the existing commuter rail network would also need to be electrified to take full advantage of NSRL? I used to live next to the Haverhill line, for example, and that definitely wasn't electrified. I am making this assumption based on locomotive usage...
But then again perhaps there are diesel/electric convertibles that could share mixed electrified/non-electrified track networks? If the latter, then is it reasonable to do locomotive fleet replacements along a timescale compatible with NSRL completion?
Thanks!
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the electrification requirement also mean that large stretches of the existing commuter rail network would also need to be electrified to take full advantage of NSRL? I used to live next to the Haverhill line, for example, and that definitely wasn't electrified. I am making this assumption based on locomotive usage...
But then again perhaps there are diesel/electric convertibles that could share mixed electrified/non-electrified track networks? If the latter, then is it reasonable to do locomotive fleet replacements along a timescale compatible with NSRL completion?
Thanks!