Regional Rail (RUR) & North-South Rail Link (NSRL)

Re: North-South Rail Link

I read an article, probably by Ari Osfevit but I can't find it at the moment, advocating digging the NSRL with a large-diameter TBM, large enough for 2 levels of 4 tracks each and station platforms in between. This way you don't need to dig larger caverns for the stations, which is the really expensive part. It also means you have room to switch the tracks between levels between the stations, so North and South Stations offer opposite-direction cross-platform transfers and Central Station offers same-direction ones. It didn't address driving this big TBM between the slurry walls.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

Digging between the slurry walls and building the new tunnel there will require major reinforcement of the existing CAT tunnel floor. Large steel beams or their equivalent will be needed to support the roadbed floor, which currently just sits on soil. Man, I wish they had just built the rail tunnel as part of the CAT project. So much simpler it would have been.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

I've seen something claiming that asphalt is basically a waste product of gasoline production, and if that turns out to be true, asphalt for resurfacing roads may end up being a lot more expensive 10 years from now than it is today as demand for gasoline declines.

It was a waste product until the cracking refineries were developed that could turn bitumen into more gasoline. So now asphalt prices move in concert with oil prices. Reducing gasoline demand should reduce asphalt prices in the future.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

I read an article, probably by Ari Osfevit but I can't find it at the moment, advocating digging the NSRL with a large-diameter TBM, large enough for 2 levels of 4 tracks each and station platforms in between. This way you don't need to dig larger caverns for the stations, which is the really expensive part. It also means you have room to switch the tracks between levels between the stations, so North and South Stations offer opposite-direction cross-platform transfers and Central Station offers same-direction ones. It didn't address driving this big TBM between the slurry walls.

That was probably Alon Levy -- he wrote an article a couple of years ago describing that idea.

[edit]
Here's the original article (blog post, actually) from 2015:

https://pedestrianobservations.com/2015/01/31/north-south-rail-link-diagram/
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

Ah. For some reason I get those two confused. :) Actually calls for two two-track tunnels with the tracks on two levels.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

So, the Big Dig addressed maybe ~2/3

of the long term transportation need/s of Boston??
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

Meanwhile good ol' Elon is now doing his thing in Chicago and DC while Gov Baker talks about concentrating on "making work what is already here" :

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business...ine-chicago/Ub7RfDC024QqEfKx5WmwSJ/story.html

By Fred Barbash THE WASHINGTON POST JUNE 14, 2018
Elon Musk has taken on a task perhaps more challenging than launching rockets into space: getting passengers from Chicago’s O’Hare to the Loop in 12 minutes, roughly three to four times as fast as the current taxi journey.

The plan for the ‘‘Chicago Express Loop,’’ announced early Thursday by Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel and Musk’s tunneling firm, calls for the construction of an underground tunnel with concrete tracks on which ‘‘skates’’ - individual vehicles built on a modified Tesla X chassis - would carry 8 to 16 passengers at between 125 to 150 mph from one of the world’s busiest airports underneath some of the country’s most congested roads. O’Hare is roughly 17 miles from the heart of the city.

Musk’s firm, The Boring Co., won a four-company competition to build and operate the underground loop. The skates, according to a fact-sheet from the company, would likely run every 30 seconds, 20 hours per day, the company said. The skates would be battery-powered and ‘‘autonomous,’’ of course, meaning no driver.

The project will be entirely privately financed, Musk’s company said. The operating firm will keep the revenue collected from passengers and any revenue from concessions. The fare would be about $25, less than the average $45 taxi trip but more than Chicago’s current Blue Line route from O’Hare. No opening day for the Chicago Express Loop was offered. It should also be noted that historically, big transportation projects almost never finish on time or on budget and sometimes are never completed at all.

Indeed, the shell of the station to be used for Musk’s loop already exists, deep below the spot known as Block 37 between State and Dearborn streets and Randolph. It’s been sitting empty and unused for more than a decade - known as part of the ‘‘subway to nowhere”- a testament to dreams of rapid journeys to O’Hare the city couldn’t ultimately afford, for which it is still paying.

RELATED LINKS Lead Story
Hyperloop in Massachusetts? Not so fast
A state senator says he’s had informal discussions with Elon Musk’s Boring Company.


But in interviews with Chicago newspapers, Emanuel expressed great faith in the ability of Musk, father of the Tesla and SpaceX, to deliver at a cost of roughly $1 billion or less.

‘‘We’re taking a bet on a guy who doesn’t like to fail - and his resources,’’ he told the Chicago Tribune. ‘‘There are a bunch of Teslas on the road. He put SpaceX together. He’s proven something. The risk - with no financial risk - is I’m betting on a guy who has proven in space, auto and now a tunnel, that he can innovate and create something of the future,’’ he said. ‘‘Given his track record, we are taking his reputation and saying, ‘This is a guy in two other transportation modes who has not failed.’ That’s what we’re doing.’’

‘‘We’re talking about a Tesla-in-a-tunnel,’’ Chicago Deputy Mayor Robert Rivkin told the Chicago Sun-Times. As for the risk of an unproven technology, Rivkin told the paper that the ‘‘only real risk to the city is that it doesn’t get built. . . . It’s not much of a risk to have a partially-built, essentially cave-in-proof sealed tunnel 30-to-60 feet underground in some portion of the city.’’

‘‘Getting from downtown to O’Hare or O’Hare to downtown is a race against time,’’ Emanuel told the paper. ‘‘We’re gonna give people a leg up.’’

The Boring Co. also has big plans for the Washington area. Maryland’s Department of Transportation gave conditional approval to the construction of a tunnel from Baltimore to Washington for a super-high-speed transportation system, The Washington Post reported in October.

A news conference is scheduled for later Thursday to discuss the plans.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

Elon Musk is a distraction from real transit problems. Chicago never has money for transit so this isn't really surprising.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

So based on their numbers it has a maximum capacity of 1,900 passengers per hour (and safe to assume that they're being optimistic with those #s based on past experience reading anything that Musk has ever said). Basically equal to the capacity of one vehicle lane but of course faster.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

So based on their numbers it has a maximum capacity of 1,900 passengers per hour (and safe to assume that they're being optimistic with those #s based on past experience reading anything that Musk has ever said). Basically equal to the capacity of one vehicle lane but of course faster.

That appears to be similar to the capacity London had to Heathrow via Heathrow Express and Heathrow Connect; 1500 seats per hour in rail style seating that wouldn't have a huge amount of standing room. Though of course they built that as a conventional rail line which allows for expansion (that they now doing by running Crossrail on that line).

Edit: For reference Crossrail will increase the capacity to about 9000 passengers per hour.
 
Last edited:
Re: North-South Rail Link

That appears to be similar to the capacity London had to Heathrow via Heathrow Express and Heathrow Connect; 1500 seats per hour in rail style seating that wouldn't have a huge amount of standing room. Though of course they built that as a conventional rail line which allows for expansion (that they now doing by running Crossrail on that line).

My family flew in and took that Heathrow line (downstairs in the terminal) straight to our hotel in South Kensington (Gloucester Road) and back at the end of our 10 day stay. It was fast, convenient and kept us off the road.

THAT is what 21st century mass transit should look like.

Good on Chicago, which according to Van has no money for mass transit, at least doing whatever it can through Musk to do something towards competitiveness. If only Boston, 'with all it riches' could finish what is already partially there and connect fricking North Station with Fricking South Station.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

Why don't we see if Musk is successful first? He's making a lot of promises but has any digging actually occurred? If he can pull it off good for him.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

My family flew in and took that Heathrow line (downstairs in the terminal) straight to our hotel in South Kensington (Gloucester Road) and back at the end of our 10 day stay. It was fast, convenient and kept us off the road.

That would have been the Piccadily Line, which is a tube line. Chicago already has an equivalent service to this via the Blue Line to O'Hare.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

Be great if MUSK had a bunch of money he could just loan us to make NSRL a reality... i'd pay 5 bucks extra per ride to ensure the good man was paid back. Playing with house money driving through these tunnels the last ~14 years, i'd be happy to pay for the glory of just having the NSRL.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

I don't think that Musks plan would work well for the NSRL. The real benefit of the north south rail line isn't connecting the two stations. Riders can already hop on the orange line and go from North to Back Bay station (where the majority of southern lines stop). It's about connecting two separate commuter rail systems, and allowing for one seat rides. Currently where North Station sits isin't ideal, it's a very long walk from the seaport and much of the financial district plus it requires a transfer to the Back Bay. But a NSRL would allow commuters from the north to go to South Station and Back Bay without needing a transfer.

This has probably all been hashed out on this thread.

But some sort of Logan to Seaport to Back Bay transit system would be great for Musk to build. Something to Kendall would also work great. Maybe an urban rail. But Musk likes to promise a lot of things, and not all of it comes to fruition. Although he does have a good track record creating a new electric automaker more competitive then most traditional companies that have been doing it for hundreds of years.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

That would have been the Piccadily Line, which is a tube line. Chicago already has an equivalent service to this via the Blue Line to O'Hare.

Exactly, regarding London. One seat from our terminal at Heathrow to across the street from the South Kensington Crowne Plaza on the Piccadilly. This should be the standard in every world class city.

Regarding Chicago:

In summation - they already have a one seat rail line directly from O'Hare's terminals to downtown PLUS will have an express Musk line at a higher fare for those willing to pay up.

Boston has neither and, for some pathetic reason, still can't connect North and South Stations. Oligarchs and gazillionaires are climbing over each other to purchase $5 million+ apartments in this city and they won't be scared off by a 2% city/commonwealth tax to build the N-S Link.

Baker this week shrugged off his lack of vision as "We prefer to make what we have already work better". 3+ years in and how'd that small picture work for you this week, Green Liners?

There is no excuse.
 
Last edited:
Re: North-South Rail Link

Why don't we see if Musk is successful first? He's making a lot of promises but has any digging actually occurred? If he can pull it off good for him.

Unless anything's changed since December of last year, when this (in my mind, convincingly persuasive) article was published, Musk, by definition, will never be successful at mass transit, because he literally doesn't understand it. One could go so far as to say he's truly an idiot (in the classic Greek sense of "idiot") when it comes to his awareness of mass transit.

Or maybe there's been a radical heightening of his mass transit savvy since December?

https://slate.com/business/2017/12/elon-musk-either-hates-mass-transit-or-doesnt-get-it.html
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

https://twitter.com/yfreemark/status/1007766586818793473 is a thread with a good summary of some of the challenges with the Chicago airport to downtown tunnel plan.

I do wonder if experimentation with 12' diameter tunnels might lead to working out techniques that could scale up to more reasonable tunnel diameters. SpaceX didn't start with the Falcon Heavy, or even the Falcon 9; they started with the Falcon 1 rocket (which used just a single engine in the first stage of the rocket, vs the 9 engines in the Falcon 9 design that has handled the majority of their launches thus far), and it took three failures of the Falcon 1 (which they could barely afford the costs of) before the two successful Falcon 1 launches, after which they switched to the Falcon 9 (which seems to have a lower cost per pound to orbit but higher cost per failed launch).
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

As far as I can tell the Boring Company is a used TBM that Musk picked up on Craigslist somewhere and a crew to run it. Unlike space transportation or electric cars, tunnel digging seems to be a field where best practices are fairly well established and there's a lot less scope for the sort of out-of-the-box thinking that characterizes Musk's successful ventures. I have the feeling this one's going to crash and burn.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

As far as I can tell the Boring Company is a used TBM that Musk picked up on Craigslist somewhere and a crew to run it.

Have you watched 13:10 to 13:20 of The Boring Company Information Session?

Unlike space transportation or electric cars, tunnel digging seems to be a field where best practices are fairly well established and there's a lot less scope for the sort of out-of-the-box thinking that characterizes Musk's successful ventures. I have the feeling this one's going to crash and burn.

The limitations current TBMs have in terms of not being able to dig out stations that are wider diameter than the tunnel away from the station, and often being abandoned when a tunnel is completed, seem like things that might have room for improvement.
 

Back
Top