Rio Grande (née Dudley Square Residential Tower) | Washington St. | Roxbury

[kmp1284]

Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

All they've released so far is a SketchUp model, which last I checked was a free program. I can't imagine it would take much more skill/talent to have come up with this than that possessed by a second year architecture student. Is this even considered by anyone to be a serious proposal, especially since the primary developer has passed away?

 

[estyle]

Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

Terrible. This will be Dudley's biggest boy and the best that can be done is 25 floors of drab, precast mediocrity? It doesn't get any lazier than this.

+1 This is almost across the street from the Bolling Building, which is in the running for the best thing built in Boston in the last ten years. It should be an iconic structure not cookie cutter bland. It's going to be tough for the city to get something better here, given the politics, but I hope that between the BPDA design staff and the BCDC it gets improved. They occasionally can make a silk purse out of a pig's ear, we just don't get to see much of the process.

 

[datadyne007]

Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

All they've released so far is a SketchUp model, which last I checked was a free program. I can't imagine it would take much more skill/talent to have come up with this than that possessed by a second year architecture student.

You'd actually get something more interesting from a 2nd year arch student, but plenty of serious architecture firms use SketchUp. It's a powerful tool for quick mockups and massing. You can also add plugins like VRay to do good renderings.

Is this even considered by anyone to be a serious proposal, especially since the primary developer has passed away?

Read back in the thread. The family is even more committed to building it in his honor now.

 

[odurandina]

Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

....but I hope that between the BPDA design staff and the BCDC it gets improved.

pre-approved. It appears the previous, more aestheticly desirable height and a/r were scrunched from ~370' to this ~320' stump fatty after numerous discussions between the developer, community overlords and BPDA.

 

[JumboBuc]

Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

This is a project where I'm much more excited about the function than the form. 211 units (most of them market rate) in Dudley is a pretty big deal.

I expect this will be polished up a little in the design review process, but we'll still end up with something bland and boring. But I'm okay with that for this location. Remember that even in its current form it's projected to cost $600k+ per unit on average (figuring in non-residential space as well). I'd think that that's already pushing what the market will support in that area of town. Anything more expensive and it might not happen.

 

[dotdude78]

Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

This is a project where I'm much more excited about the function than the form. 211 units (most of them market rate) in Dudley is a pretty big deal.

I expect this will be polished up a little in the design review process, but we'll still end up with something bland and boring. But I'm okay with that for this location. Remember that even in its current form it's projected to cost $600k+ per unit on average (figuring in non-residential space as well). I'd think that that's already pushing what the market will support in that area of town. Anything more expensive and it might not happen.

Who in the world would pay $600K+ to live in Dudley???

 

[datadyne007]

Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

Who in the world would pay $600K+ to live in Dudley???

No, that's the construction cost per unit. Not the selling price.

Total cost = $144 million / 211 units = ~$682k per unit

The cost of building in the Boston metro area is extremely expensive.

 

[kmp1284]

Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

You'd actually get something more interesting from a 2nd year arch student, but plenty of serious architecture firms use SketchUp. It's a powerful tool for quick mockups and massing. You can also add plugins like VRay to do good renderings.


Read back in the thread. The family is even more committed to building it in his honor now.

Good point about SketchUp in early stage design but the fact remains that you don't see it much when it comes to more finalized designs. I'd very much like to see them pull it off but it does cause one to question their ability to finance and execute.

 

[dotdude78]

Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

No, that's the construction cost per unit. Not the selling price.

Total cost = $144 million / 211 units = ~$682k per unit

The cost of building in the Boston metro area is extremely expensive.

Ok, so it's even more $$. Again, who in the world is going to pay that to live in Dudley sq???

 

[bigpicture7]

Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

Ok, so it's even more $$. Again, who in the world is going to pay that to live in Dudley sq???

Apparently it's 165 apartments / 46 condos...
https://boston.curbed.com/2017/5/31/15718898/roxbury-tallest-tower-rio-grande-dudley-square

So who knows what kind of operational scheme they are going to employ to have rental income offset condo cost of ownership...

That apartment/condo mix approach might help them pull this off and keep condo costs under control.

 

[kmp1284]

Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

Who in the world would pay $600K+ to live in Dudley???

People pay far more to live in worse areas of New York, San Francisco and London.

 

[JumboBuc]

Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

Who in the world would pay $600K+ to live in Dudley???

No, that's the construction cost per unit. Not the selling price.

Total cost = $144 million / 211 units = ~$682k per unit

The cost of building in the Boston metro area is extremely expensive.

But in order for the project to work, market rates must exceed construction costs (after all tax incentives and everything).

The $144 million includes the cost of 38k sf of new commercial space and the renovation of two existing commercial spaces, so the cost of the residential space alone is probably closer to $120-$125 million (or roughly $600k per unit). Considering that 20% of the units are affordable (and 30 are micro) that means that the remaining market rate units would have to be worth >$600k on the market on average in order for the project to work.

Eek.

Apparently it's 165 apartments / 46 condos...
https://boston.curbed.com/2017/5/31/15718898/roxbury-tallest-tower-rio-grande-dudley-square

So who knows what kind of operational scheme they are going to employ to have rental income offset condo cost of ownership...

Capitalizing rental income is no big deal. Every CRE investor does it.

 

[bigpicture7]

Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

But in order for the project to work, market rates must exceed construction costs (after all tax incentives and everything).

The $144 million includes the cost of 38k sf of new commercial space and the renovation of two existing commercial spaces, so the cost of the residential space alone is probably closer to $120-$125 million (or roughly $600k per unit). Considering that 20% of the units are affordable (and 30 are micro) that means that the remaining market rate units would have to be worth >$600k on the market on average in order for the project to work.

Eek.



Capitalizing rental income is no big deal. Every CRE investor does it.

I get that it is common; I'm just saying that it makes it a little tougher to know what the targeted sale price of the condo units might be...78% of this building will be rental units

With such a high % rental, and depending on the terms of their financing, they may be able to pull this off with the condos at more reasonable prices than we're suspecting. Just food for thought.

 

[HenryAlan]

Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

Ok, so it's even more $$. Again, who in the world is going to pay that to live in Dudley sq???

A lot depends on unit size of condos vs. unit size of apartments, over what length of time they amortize the construction costs, etc., etc. I doubt very much any units will be offered at that $682,000 price point.

 

[fattony]

Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

Ok, so it's even more $$. Again, who in the world is going to pay that to live in Dudley sq???

Let me re-frame that for you: Where in Boston can you buy a condo in a new construction tower for a mere $600k??

For example, a 2-bed in the Pierce starts at $1.6 million (probably the lower floors). In that context, Dudley carries a $1 million discount compared to the Fenway.

 

[JumboBuc]

Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

Let me re-frame that for you: Where in Boston can you buy a condo in a new construction tower for a mere $600k??

For example, a 2-bed in the Pierce starts at $1.6 million (probably the lower floors). In that context, Dudley carries a $1 million discount compared to the Fenway.

Millennium Tower had units for as little as $850k

 

[tysmith95]

Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

If they were smart they'd market this as Lower South End.

 

[dotdude78]

Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

If they were smart they'd market this as Lower South End.

People aren't that stupid. This is not the South End.

 

[vanshnookenraggen]

Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

It's the flag of Jamaica. Pander much?

And now that I see it from another angle I approve of the setback and reuse of the base building.

 

[sm89]

Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

People aren't that stupid. This is not the South End.

As this area gets built back up again, expect the unregulated spaces to become resident parking. No matter how the realtors market the neighborhood, prospective buyers will be seeing Roxbury Resident Parking signs everywhere when they go to view the units.