Rose Kennedy Greenway

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I find it hard to believe that the parks were more expensive than the tunneling and building of an underground highway and all the ramps. Also, how would the project have turned a profit? Would it be by selling the newly reclaimed land to private owners? Or by instituting tolls for the users of the roads?

Paul Revere Park is very nice, but it's hard to get to. You have find your way over the locks (which a LOT of people don't even know about) or walk underneath the North Washington St Bridge from Charlestown. The pedestrian bridge (which has been planned all along) connecting it to North Point Park will hopefully help by adding some connectivity.
 
When it became apparent that the Big Dig was becoming a massive financial dog, the air rights should have been sold to cancel out the debt. We now have a glorified median strip, devoid of all the cultural institutions we were promised, and billions of dollar of debt which are crippling agencies.

If the parcels had been sold or given expensive long term leases at the completion of the tunnel project, with this being prior to the real estate market's collapse, a big part of the debt could have been obliterated. Unfortunately the city's suburban mentality prevented that.
 
Lurker said:
When it became apparent that the Big Dig was becoming a massive financial dog, the air rights should have been sold to cancel out the debt. We now have a glorified median strip, devoid of all the cultural institutions we were promised, and billions of dollar of debt which are crippling agencies.

If the parcels had been sold or given expensive long term leases at the completion of the tunnel project, with this being prior to the real estate market's collapse, a big part of the debt could have been obliterated. Unfortunately the city's suburban mentality prevented that.
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Now that I can agree with.
Especially given that a lot of that property was private prior to the construction of the original expressway. So we would not be selling pristine state property so much as reverting it back to it original status.

BTW I would love to see a general cost break down for the Dig's final price tag. I haven't been able to find anything online yet.
 
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Lurker said:
When it became apparent that the Big Dig was becoming a massive financial dog, the air rights should have been sold to cancel out the debt. We now have a glorified median strip, devoid of all the cultural institutions we were promised, and billions of dollar of debt which are crippling agencies.

If the parcels had been sold or given expensive long term leases at the completion of the tunnel project, with this being prior to the real estate market's collapse, a big part of the debt could have been obliterated. Unfortunately the city's suburban mentality prevented that.
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Lurker should run for Mayor. At least the budget would be balanced.
 
The Paul Revere Park always has tons of people in it when I jog through after work. During the day might be a different story, but it's far from abandoned.
 
As someone said upthread, we have been waiting for Government Center to mature for 40+ years now. Meanwhile, Post Office Square was a success right out of the gate.

Sometimes things are just so fundamentally flawed that no amount of waiting will help them.
 
today
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statler said:
As someone said upthread, we have been waiting for Government Center to mature for 40+ years now. Meanwhile, Post Office Square was a success right out of the gate.

Sometimes things are just so fundamentally flawed that no amount of waiting will help them.
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What unfixable fundamental flaws are you talking about?
 
Justin, take - for example - 02124's picture above. Look at the parcel in the foreground: a patch of green surrounded on all sides by three lanes of traffic, which are in turn surrounded by virtually nothing in the way of ground floor retail or amenities (and in fact, two of these sides abut other parks with exactly the same problems as this parcel!) And then look at the patch of green itself - no benches. No lights. Paths that don't go in any particularly pedestrian-friendly direction.

What would I do in this park? What would draw me here?

Even if I were one of the very small handful of people who live in the neighborhood, I wouldn't find it worthwhile to cross three lanes of traffic so my dog could poop here.
 
Shepard said:
Justin, take - for example - 02124's picture above. Look at the parcel in the foreground: a patch of green surrounded on all sides by three lanes of traffic, which are in turn surrounded by virtually nothing in the way of ground floor retail or amenities (and in fact, two of these sides abut other parks with exactly the same problems as this parcel!) And then look at the patch of green itself - no benches. No lights. Paths that don't go in any particularly pedestrian-friendly direction.

What would I do in this park? What would draw me here?

Even if I were one of the very small handful of people who live in the neighborhood, I wouldn't find it worthwhile to cross three lanes of traffic so my dog could poop here.
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Shepard, as many of us have stated before the parcel above is temporary in nature. The City and the Conservancy are in the planning stages of a complete redesign of the Dewey Square parcels. As you may recall, these parcels was previously designated to MassHort for their ill-fated Garden Under Glass. All they could muster up is what you see now.
 
Waldorf, you've defended the Greenway many times here. What do you think are its positives? What do you believe it will become?
 
Waldorf said:
Shepard, as many of us have stated before the parcel above is temporary in nature.
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That's true, and I know this. But here are things that aren't temporary about that parcel - or at least, not slated to change anytime soon:

a) Being surrounded by three lanes of traffic
b) Lacking any interfaces with street-level amenities
c) Being a virtual pedestrian "dead zone" - no reason to walk through it
d) Completely lacking in imagination (OK OK, I realize that's more of a judgment and prognosis on my part.)

Waldorf, let's take that park in the foreground of the picture. It's small. It's a virtual traffic island. Using your most profound imagination, and everything you might want to see there, what exactly do you imagine could feasibly exist on that parcel?
 
Long time lurker that felt compelled to respond to the Big Dig bashing (sorry to be a couple days late).

Cost:
Some members have bandied about the $30B figure which is absurd. The construction cost was $14.8B. There's another $7B in interest payments (the present value of which is obviously much less). At any rate I think it's tough to blame engineers (or contractors or unions) for inadequate financing. Of the $14.8B, the Feds picked up something north of $9B. Meaning the Big Dig cost the taxpayers of MA $5B in change in construction costs. As Pelhamhall eloquently stated, this includes more than just a highway. Hundreds of acres of parks, streetscape improvements, utility upgrades, transit improvements, etc. Granted, the project is a posterchild for special interest earmarks, but let's not pretend that we got no bang for our buck.

Union Labor
The Project Labor Agreement was designed to provide labor stability. In essense the PLA set a schedule of wages that would be paid to all labor and included agreements not to strike as well as setting targets for minority / female employment. This undoubtedly increased the cost of the project early on, but towards the end of the Big Dig (when construction labor prices were through the roof) there were actually union members making less than their non-union counterparts. There aren't enough non-union craftsmen in the city to build the Big Dig. The project needed union involvement (and tranquility).

Safety
The ceiling collapse notwithstanding, the Big Dig was actually an exceptionally safe "mega project" as mega projects go. There ended up being 1/4 as many serious accidents as insurance underwriters had predicted at the project's outset. And to imply that labor is at fault for the ceiling collapse is a bit of a stretch. The iron workers who installed the ceiling panels for the Ted Williams tunnel used the bolts and epoxy that were supplied to them by management. It is superintendents and project managers (like me) that make sure labor has the right materials. (I realize this post comes across as pro-union, so let me say that I am not and never have been in a union).

For a great read on the lessons to be learned by the Big Dig:
http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_4_big_dig.html

For some facts and figures on the Big Dig:
http://www.masspike.com/bigdig/background/facts.html
 
Hey AmericanFolkLegend. Welcome!

Great first post.

Do you happen to know (or know where to find) a break down of cost? Specifically, actual transportation infrastructure vs. surface improvement?
 
Thanks for the welcome message Statler.

I've looked around and can't find a good breakdown of costs. I've even tried to find a list of all the contracts issued for the Central Artery / Tunnel project so I could compile a breadown myself, but I couldn't find that either.
 
Me neither.

You would think with all the press this got it would be available in some form.
Bureaucracies keep their secrets hidden well.
 
statler said:
...actual transportation infrastructure vs. surface improvement?
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I recall a formula being published several years ago, as the project approached substantial completion:

For every $100 spent directly on the road infrastructure (or on other aspects of the project, like utility relocation), $0.25 was spent on parks and other mitigation.

In considering this, if the Big Dig cost ~ $14.8B, then the Greenway, the other parks, and mitigation measures cost ~ $37M.

This could be apocryphal information.
 
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