Route 1 Project - Malden, Revere, Saugus

[king_vibe]

I agree. The corollary is that it doesn't have to be either/or, but why not both transit AND highways? The Orange Line was to be run in the median of the SW Expressway and terminate at University Ave. RR Station instead of Forest Hills, so we lost both highway and transit capacity when "Sarge" cancelled the SW Expressway, so that's a net loss IMHO.

Center running transit within an expressway is provably the worst way to do it.

 

[Tallguy]

Center running would be fine if done like the OL, with decked over areas near the station

 

[BosMaineiac]

Again, I ask the question, what public transportation? I worked in Billerica, MA; Durham, NH; Salem, MA; Danvers, MA; North Andover, MA and Andover, MA, during my thirty-year engineering career, and not one (1) of those locations was served by public transit!

All of those cities except Danvers are accessible by a train from North Station. But I get your point that the last mile is difficult.

The goal for many transit advocates is to reorient land use policies to favor living and working in transit accessible areas. Not continue the status quo of having to drive everywhere from your house. These kinds of changes take time and adjustment. I’m not saying we can ever live in a perfect car-free utopia, far from it. We just need to prioritize transit expansion in order to take cars off the road, which should reduce congestion on those same roads. Resources are limited, the roads are maxed out. There’s no good policy route to prioritize BOTH highway and transit expansion, it just doesn’t exist here because the costs would be astronomical. It’s hard enough to only get a transit expansion.

If we want to continue to grow, we can no longer afford to just expand highways. We need to get creative and the transit system in place right now is ripe for expansion. Most of the big transit ideas that we regularly discuss would probably be a fraction of the lifetime cost of expanding our highways (whatever that may look like).

 

[Delvin4519]

Again, I ask the question, what public transportation? I worked in Billerica, MA; Durham, NH; Salem, MA; Danvers, MA; North Andover, MA and Andover, MA, during my thirty-year engineering career, and not one (1) of those locations was served by public transit! So while what you propose sounds great in theory, it would be a disaster in practice. The fact is that those highways, for good or for ill, were built, and they aren't going away, so how do you propose we all get to work, walk? Bicycle? I got news for you, it's not happening! People are voting with their feet, and it's planted firmly on the accelerator pedals of their cars, if for no other reason that transit only serves the urban core, not the suburban beltways.

The tech giants recruit from MIT and Harvard, but build their laboratories and factories in the suburbs, because land is cheaper and the highways have supplanted the railroads as the prime mover of raw materials and finished goods. That's not going to change anytime soon, either!

Salem is a major Commuter Rail hub with bus connections. Danvers historically had bus service. The Commuter Rail passes through some of those towns in the Merrimack Valley on it's way to Lowell and Lawrence.

We cannot continue on highway expansion anymore. It will only induce more VMT and cause some serious climate pollution and other problems, and exacerbate societal inequalities and financially insolvent suburban sprawl. Highways are extraordrinarilly expensive. The Kingdom of the Netherlands almost went broke as a country in the mid 1970s trying to suburbanize, building roads and roads for cars, and bulldozing cities for highway expansion.

It is possible to improve the existing commuter rail lines, and enhance service on those lines as well as improve service on the regional RTAs. Other areas should have bike paths to the nearest Commuter Rail train station as an interim measure. The suburban sprawl in Massachusetts is signifcantly more extreme than those in Europe, which will make transit expansions extremely expensive to operate with sufficant revenues, compared to European counterparts, although upzoning at train stations can mitigate some of it.

The political climate in the United States is something that makes this sort of a losing battle. but that still means we can't give up, since the future Boston's growth, as well as the threat of sea level rise on the city, is at stake. Suburban sprawl can be controlled with a LVT taxation on land value.

The only way out is land use reform, roadway safety, and bike paths, and transit enhancement. Highway expansion simply has to essentially come to a near complete stop, outright.

 

[themissinglink]

The fact is that those highways, for good or for ill, were built, and they aren't going away, so how do you propose we all get to work, walk? Bicycle? I got news for you, it's not happening!

Nobody is proposing that we all stop using cars to walk or bike instead. There is no "one size fits all" solution for Greater Boston's transportation issues. However, when it comes to urban areas like Boston, it's imperative that we prioritize public transportation over auto-centric infrastructure like highways.

People are voting with their feet, and it's planted firmly on the accelerator pedals of their cars, if for no other reason that transit only serves the urban core, not the suburban beltways.

This is exactly why we need to improve and expand our public transportation network instead of continuing to widen and expand our roadways. Travel patterns will change naturally if people have access to a diverse range of transportation methods, instead of relying on cars as much as we currently do.

 

[millerm277]

We just need to prioritize transit expansion in order to take cars off the road, which should reduce congestion on those same roads. Resources are limited, the roads are maxed out. There’s no good policy route to prioritize BOTH highway and transit expansion, it just doesn’t exist here because the costs would be astronomical. It’s hard enough to only get a transit expansion.

If we were actually doing that, there would probably be fewer frustrations among all parties. Instead, we're basically just not doing either, as far as I can tell.

We've got a white elephant being built in South Coast Rail that is going to (impressively) manage to cost billions while not accomplishing much of anything useful.

Aside from that we built a somewhat half-assed and truncated version of GLX after 30 years of fighting about it, and that only barely managed to happen.

And that's about it for any kind of transit expansion happening or cued up to happen anywhere but the imaginations of those on this site.

What are we slated for in the next 5 years? Maybe, just maybe, MGH pressure/influence will be enough to get a commitment to start building a single-stop extension (Red-Blue). That's not going to be transformative, nor will it do anything outside the immediate urban core. The current 5 year CIP has a whopping...$27m for expansion projects.

--------

I don't see any kind of political momentum at the statehouse to come up with the vast number of billions to make any serious transit extensions happen while also fixing the huge problems on the existing MBTA. At present we look to be on a trajectory where we'll be lucky to just get the additional funding to keep slowly fixing the existing system + not slashing service levels to the bone.

Hell, "Blue Line to Lynn"? Currently transit is such a remote afterthought outside the denizens of this site + the small % of people truly in the densest parts of the urban core, that we closed their commuter rail station without even having finished design or funded the replacement, which still has no timetable. They're going to go years without even the transit that they had, and somehow no one of any political significance cares that that's what we're doing with transit in the 8th largest city in the state.

Which is to say, I'm not optimistic.

 

[Charlie_mta]

If we were actually doing that, there would probably be fewer frustrations among all parties. Instead, we're basically just not doing either, as far as I can tell.

We've got a white elephant being built in South Coast Rail that is going to (impressively) manage to cost billions while not accomplishing much of anything useful.

Aside from that we built a somewhat half-assed and truncated version of GLX after 30 years of fighting about it, and that only barely managed to happen.

And that's about it for any kind of transit expansion happening or cued up to happen anywhere but the imaginations of those on this site.

What are we slated for in the next 5 years? Maybe, just maybe, MGH pressure/influence will be enough to get a commitment to start building a single-stop extension (Red-Blue). That's not going to be transformative, nor will it do anything outside the immediate urban core. The current 5 year CIP has a whopping...$27m for expansion projects.

--------

I don't see any kind of political momentum at the statehouse to come up with the vast number of billions to make any serious transit extensions happen while also fixing the huge problems on the existing MBTA. At present we look to be on a trajectory where we'll be lucky to just get the additional funding to keep slowly fixing the existing system + not slashing service levels to the bone.

Hell, "Blue Line to Lynn"? Currently transit is such a remote afterthought outside the denizens of this site + the small % of people truly in the densest parts of the urban core, that we closed their commuter rail station without even having finished design or funded the replacement, which still has no timetable. They're going to go years without even the transit that they had, and somehow no one of any political significance cares that that's what we're doing with transit in the 8th largest city in the state.

Which is to say, I'm not optimistic.

Spot on assessment. I think it will take Boston's economy to be impacted by gridlock and limited transit before a real commitment to transit expansion happens. When companies and jobs start leaving, then the political will may be activated.

 

[kingofsheeba]

If we were actually doing that, there would probably be fewer frustrations among all parties. Instead, we're basically just not doing either, as far as I can tell.

We've got a white elephant being built in South Coast Rail that is going to (impressively) manage to cost billions while not accomplishing much of anything useful.

Aside from that we built a somewhat half-assed and truncated version of GLX after 30 years of fighting about it, and that only barely managed to happen.

And that's about it for any kind of transit expansion happening or cued up to happen anywhere but the imaginations of those on this site.

What are we slated for in the next 5 years? Maybe, just maybe, MGH pressure/influence will be enough to get a commitment to start building a single-stop extension (Red-Blue). That's not going to be transformative, nor will it do anything outside the immediate urban core. The current 5 year CIP has a whopping...$27m for expansion projects.

--------

I don't see any kind of political momentum at the statehouse to come up with the vast number of billions to make any serious transit extensions happen while also fixing the huge problems on the existing MBTA. At present we look to be on a trajectory where we'll be lucky to just get the additional funding to keep slowly fixing the existing system + not slashing service levels to the bone.

Hell, "Blue Line to Lynn"? Currently transit is such a remote afterthought outside the denizens of this site + the small % of people truly in the densest parts of the urban core, that we closed their commuter rail station without even having finished design or funded the replacement, which still has no timetable. They're going to go years without even the transit that they had, and somehow no one of any political significance cares that that's what we're doing with transit in the 8th largest city in the state.

Which is to say, I'm not optimistic.

I’ve always felt that the Alewife extension was just lip service that the wealthy elites in Cambridge and Somerville came up with in the 1980’s. It’s “here’s a compromise and a half-assed interchange at Alewife Brook, and we don’t care about the upkeep of that intersection and Red Line. As long as it doesn’t go into my neighborhood and I don’t have to use the T, not my issue.” The cavalier attitude that they wealthy NIMBYS have in these parts is sickening. We always have to be of the puritanical mindset. I’m convinced that this area is a playground for old, rich, hwyte, who want absolute quiet. We are their case study to see how much we can take before we snap.

You have to wonder if it’s NIMBYism, or just a bunch of old rich yt ppl who like to torture us by saying “no” every time?

 

[Charlie_mta]

I’ve always felt that the Alewife extension was just lip service that the wealthy elites in Cambridge and Somerville came up with in the 1980’s. It’s “here’s a compromise and a half-assed interchange at Alewife Brook, and we don’t care about the upkeep of that intersection and Red Line. As long as it doesn’t go into my neighborhood and I don’t have to use the T, not my issue.” The cavalier attitude that they wealthy NIMBYS have in these parts is sickening. We always have to be of the puritanical mindset. I’m convinced that this area is a playground for old, rich, hwyte, who want absolute quiet. We are their case study to see how much we can take before we snap.

You have to wonder if it’s NIMBYism, or just a bunch of old rich yt ppl who like to torture us by saying “no” every time?

The Red Line to Alewife was largely because of Tip O'Neill's power and influence in DC. He lived next to Porter Square, and he was serving his home turf with the Alewife extension. I'm not discounting what you said, just adding that Tip O'Neill was a powerhouse politician with the right priorities.

 

[Highwayguy]

If we were actually doing that, there would probably be fewer frustrations among all parties. Instead, we're basically just not doing either, as far as I can tell.

We've got a white elephant being built in South Coast Rail that is going to (impressively) manage to cost billions while not accomplishing much of anything useful.

Aside from that we built a somewhat half-assed and truncated version of GLX after 30 years of fighting about it, and that only barely managed to happen.

And that's about it for any kind of transit expansion happening or cued up to happen anywhere but the imaginations of those on this site.

What are we slated for in the next 5 years? Maybe, just maybe, MGH pressure/influence will be enough to get a commitment to start building a single-stop extension (Red-Blue). That's not going to be transformative, nor will it do anything outside the immediate urban core. The current 5 year CIP has a whopping...$27m for expansion projects.

--------

I don't see any kind of political momentum at the statehouse to come up with the vast number of billions to make any serious transit extensions happen while also fixing the huge problems on the existing MBTA. At present we look to be on a trajectory where we'll be lucky to just get the additional funding to keep slowly fixing the existing system + not slashing service levels to the bone.

Hell, "Blue Line to Lynn"? Currently transit is such a remote afterthought outside the denizens of this site + the small % of people truly in the densest parts of the urban core, that we closed their commuter rail station without even having finished design or funded the replacement, which still has no timetable. They're going to go years without even the transit that they had, and somehow no one of any political significance cares that that's what we're doing with transit in the 8th largest city in the state.

Which is to say, I'm not optimistic.

Best/ most depressing post on this site; bravo.

 

[kingofsheeba]

The Red Line to Alewife was largely because of Tip O'Neill's power and influence in DC. He lived next to Porter Square, and he was serving his home turf with the Alewife extension. I'm not discounting what you said, just adding that Tip O'Neill was a powerhouse politician with the right priorities.

The guy who drank with Reagan and called Ronnie “his friend?” Strange way to show that you have the right priorities.

Tip and the Gip are both hopefully in a warmer place right now.

 

[Charlie_mta]

The guy who drank with Reagan and called Ronnie “his friend?” Strange way to show that you have the right priorities.

Tip and the Gip are both hopefully in a warmer place right now.

It was a different time than now. There was not the hard partisan divide that there is now. It's problematic to look at those times with today's lenses. Totally different times. But I do have good memories of Tip O'Neill. He personally did my family and me a huge favor that changed my life. I'll always be in his debt for that.

 

[kingofsheeba]

It was a different time than now. There was not the hard partisan divide that there is now. It's problematic to look at those times with today's lenses. Totally different times. But I do have good memories of Tip O'Neill. He personally did my family and me a huge favor that changed my life. I'll always be in his debt for that.

Listen, I grew up in a political family as well. I get it. I see where you’re coming from. And I understand that not everyone will get every single thing they ask for, but we have to fix that stretch between Alewife and Storrow. There needs to be some added accommodation for vehicles. Even if it’s a half @$$ed approach.

Getting back to Route 1 North. It looks like there’s some effort to bring some added capacity to Malden, Saugus and Revere. Even if it’s years away, and still in the design phase. I’ll take it.

 

[sm89]

Getting back to Route 1 North. It looks like there’s some effort to bring some added capacity to Malden, Saugus and Revere. Even if it’s years away, and still in the design phase. I’ll take it.

Since that MassDOT website is relatively useless in terms of finding out exactly what's happening and when, I found these two related documents:
City-of-Revere-and-Town-of-Saugus-2020-Transportation-Construction-Project-Application.pdf (massgaming.com)
City-of-Revere-Town-of-Saugus-2021-Transportation-Construction-Project-Grant-Application.pdf (massgaming.com)

 

[Stretch_1977]

Digging at historicaerials.com I find the ramps are all graded.

To my best ability, this is what it looks like they were designing. A part of me is wishing this happened, simply to see the amazing interchange that would have taken place, but undoubtedly it would have been very destructive to so many areas. And I forgot to include the land sticking off of 107 (which doesn't appeared in 1969 along with most of the sand brought in (however, it appears little if any sand was brought in between 69 and 71 but all the grading was done during this time). If I extend those red lines, they'll run right into that spit of land.

The stub with the question mark is the proposed East Boston Expressway, which would have upgraded MA Route 60 (the old Route C-1) to Interstate Standards between the harbor tunnels, Logan Airport and this interchange in Revere. Some of the mounds for the ramps for the East Boston Expressway can still be seen behind the hotel and Cataldo Ambulance at the rotary intersection of MA Route 60 and MA Route 107 (The Marsh Road). Frank Sargent cancelled that when he cancelled I-95 and the Inner Belt.

 

[Charlie_mta]

The stub with the question mark is the proposed East Boston Expressway, which would have upgraded MA Route 60 (the old Route C-1) to Interstate Standards between the harbor tunnels, Logan Airport and this interchange in Revere. Some of the mounds for the ramps for the East Boston Expressway can still be seen behind the hotel and Cataldo Ambulance at the rotary intersection of MA Route 60 and MA Route 107 (The Marsh Road). Frank Sargent cancelled that when he cancelled I-95 and the Inner Belt.

Yes, the marshes would have been sliced and diced by three new expressways: 1) I-95 heading up to Lynn and beyond; 2) the Revere Connector (heading eastward of the proposed interchange in your photo); and, 3) the East Boston expressway extension (tying into I-95 northeast of your photo, and connecting with the existing East Boston Expressway). Ah yes, the thwarted dreams of highway engineers.

 

[Charlie_mta]

The stub with the question mark is the proposed East Boston Expressway, which would have upgraded MA Route 60 (the old Route C-1) to Interstate Standards between the harbor tunnels, Logan Airport and this interchange in Revere. Some of the mounds for the ramps for the East Boston Expressway can still be seen behind the hotel and Cataldo Ambulance at the rotary intersection of MA Route 60 and MA Route 107 (The Marsh Road). Frank Sargent cancelled that when he cancelled I-95 and the Inner Belt.

Here is a fairly accurate Google map of officially proposed expressways in the Boston metro area, as of 1969. A screen shot of the map:

 

[vanshnookenraggen]

The further discussions of the unbuilt roads have been moved here https://archboston.com/community/threads/roads-and-highways-general-development-thread.6872/

 

[sm89]

I've noticed that the state has been replacing signage along Route 1 between Chelsea and at least Lynnfield. I wish they didn't feel the need to always replace every single mast arm and gantry too. Huge waste of money.

 

[Equilibria]

I've noticed that the state has been replacing signage along Route 1 between Chelsea and at least Lynnfield. I wish they didn't feel the need to always replace every single mast arm and gantry too. Huge waste of money.

I suspect that if they're replacing the sign structures, it's because they're in poor condition. They have life spans and have been known to fall.