Seaport Neighborhood - Infill and Discussion

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

This whole neighborhood reminds me of the Galleria district in Houston. Plenty of pleasant, high-end retailers to visit and lots of Class A office. But just not geared towards livability. Maybe the additional residential units will change that.
Quick anecdote: I was in the Galleria district for work a couple years ago. I asked the bell hop where I should head for dinner. Then we had this exchange:
Bellhop: The Galleria Mall is a few blocks north. I'll get you a cab.
Me: Can't I just walk it?
Bellhop: I guess, but it's like a half mile. I should get you a cab.
Me: I'll just walk.
Bellhop: Ok. But like I said, it's probably a half mile away!
He was right though. It took me ~30 minutes to walk the half mile because I had to wait at so many pedestrian crossings of 6 and 8 lane "boulevards" (which of course were all timed with cars in mind).
 
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Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

HenryAlan said:
That wasn't the point of the comparison. The point is that traffic does not tell us whether or not urbanity failed. Indeed, it can be a marker of success. Do you disagree?
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I think that NY traffic is not a part of its urban success. Traffic in NY is representative of many things, including infrastructure failure; particularly at getting people in and out of the city. NYC is a wonderful place, but it's not even close to the epitome of good urban design. NY made the choice decades ago to sacrifice an amount of good urbanism above 14th Street to allow for vast, one-way, highways (the Avenues), which are still barely adequate for filling and emptying the city each workday. NYC has only recently started working to correct some of the les-urban friendly choices made in decades past.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

citylover94 said:
This is a redesign concept for Seaport Blvd. I used Las Ramblas and the Comm Ave mall as a template.
http://www.streetmix.net/-/179561

I hope the link works. :)
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Cool stuff!

Recent comments are making me more optimistic about the Seaport. I still can't believe that the Silver Line is a bus in a tunnel, I did not know that existed until it did here in Boston. Why didn't they make it heavy rail like the rest of the system?
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

BussesAin'tTrains said:
I think that NY traffic is not a part of its urban success. Traffic in NY is representative of many things, including infrastructure failure; particularly at getting people in and out of the city. NYC is a wonderful place, but it's not even close to the epitome of good urban design. NY made the choice decades ago to sacrifice an amount of good urbanism above 14th Street to allow for vast, one-way, highways (the Avenues), which are still barely adequate for filling and emptying the city each workday. NYC has only recently started working to correct some of the les-urban friendly choices made in decades past.
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Okay, point made. Is there a good approach to fixing the traffic? I don't see anything that gets rid of it unless other options become universally more attractive. We can upgrade transit, cycling facilities, pedestrian experience, etc., trading some lanes to do it. There will still be as many cars as the road configuration allows, because some will suffer any level of traffic to avoid the alternatives that many of us prefer. About the only thing likely to work would be congestion pricing, but I really don't see that happening in Boston any time soon.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

How about a monorail from Aquarium over the ocean right down the water with multiple stops through the piers.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

TheRifleman said:
How about a monorail from Aquarium over the ocean right down the water with multiple stops through the piers.
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Or, far more reasonble, cheaper, and with a better catchment area and better connections, the Greenway Heritage Trolley that's been discussed running from North Station (or Charlestown) via the Greenway/Atlantic Ave to South Station and beyond down Seaport Boulevard.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

TheRifleman said:
How about a monorail from Aquarium over the ocean right down the water with multiple stops through the piers.
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I get a kick out of this because you don't want to use a bus (that's inside although you picture cold outdoor bus stops), but you'll propose an outdoor monorail that would have cold platforms.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

AmericanFolkLegend said:
This whole neighborhood reminds me of the Galleria district in Houston
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I'm sorry, but I've been visiting Houston frequently for years and the Seaport is NOTHING like the Galleria. Comparing Seaport Blvd to Westheimer isn't even possible. The office buildings are walled off behind wide fringes of banal and useless landscaping, and interspersed with big boxes and strip malls with wide parking lots facing the street. The "district" is named for a a giant shopping mall, one of the largest in the USA, that dominates the whole thing. It's been filling in since the 80's but it's not even close to anything in the Seaport except maybe where Summer St passes by the Convention Ctr... People use the Galleria as the quintessential example of the worst kind of sprawl. Sure, the bland architecture in the Seaport resembles all bland, modern urban developments but in no way approached the level of anti-imageability that the Galleria does.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Lisbon said:
Cool stuff!

Recent comments are making me more optimistic about the Seaport. I still can't believe that the Silver Line is a bus in a tunnel, I did not know that existed until it did here in Boston. Why didn't they make it heavy rail like the rest of the system?
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They did it that way so that it can exit the tunnel and then go through the I-90 tunnel to the airport or travel on the surface streets.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

FK4 said:
Well, I think that was the point of the piece - to point out what desperately needs to be done, now. And it's not as if there's any reason to anticipate that the remaining 3/8 Fan Pier buildings, or other developments, will make any significant architectural departure from what we've got. The editorial is sounding the call to change that.
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This. Campbell's complaining should be a clarion call for the things we CAN still change. Will the architecture change? No, probably not, but urbanism can be pushed for, especially on city managed property (like the roads)
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Mongo said:
They did it that way so that it can exit the tunnel and then go through the I-90 tunnel to the airport or travel on the surface streets.
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It's always been planned to be able to sink tracks in the Transitway and run both BRT and LRT through it. They should have started the planning process for hooking up the Green Line last decade at the earliest, but of course that didn't happen. Green Line will be the best way to effectively hook up the Seaport to the rail system, and it's not even on DOT's/MBTA's radar.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

TheRifleman said:
Maybe .......a very well respected view. The problem I see is their is no easy access to the seaport when the final buildout of this area happens and if you do not work or live in the area why would you go here.
There is no hardrail so you will have to sit in traffic with the Silverline bus. The only real walkable areas are the piers which will do okay for retail.

The area is not foot traffic friendly like the backbay. There is just too much walking to get know where. The big block footprints are a disaster.

My point is. This was priceless realestate that got a lot of help from the taxpayers. I say in the end seaport would have evolved if our leaders invested in a better infrastructure instead of their business associates that help them get elected.
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The waterfront, even with the lackluster restaurants, is drawing people. I go there with clients and friends, because they want to dine on the harbor, and you can do that in the Seaport. That is a commercial success.

Nice weather we might walk over from South Station; less nice weather we take the Silver Line or an Uber -- from an urban standpoint that works to (off hours! -- SL1, SL2 are hell at peak load).
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

^Yeah, I've said it before, but I don't mind the Seaport. Harpoon is fun. In the summer, the seaport has the highest concentration of roof decks (and overlooking the harbor nonetheless) of any place in the city. The walk through the desolate parking lots sucks at the moment, but once you get to D street the whole place really opens up. I bike there (which isn't that bad, especially compared with say... Cambridge St in Allston), and there are plenty of chain-link fences to lock up to! I've taken the silver line around a decent amount too, and as hinted at, it is pretty good for what it is.

And as for the traffic concerns, if everyone who worked there didn't ignore the massive I-90 onramp smack in the middle of the area and instead sit in traffic to get onto the greenway, there would be no traffic. I can't have any empathy for people who are 1) too self indulged to consider mass transit as an alternative and 2) too stupid to look at a map for five seconds and see the duh obvious alternative of getting on I-90 at B street.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

davem said:
And as for the traffic concerns, if everyone who worked there didn't ignore the massive I-90 onramp smack in the middle of the area and instead sit in traffic to get onto the greenway, there would be no traffic. I can't have any empathy for people who are 1) too self indulged to consider mass transit as an alternative and 2) too stupid to look at a map for five seconds and see the duh obvious alternative of getting on I-90 at B street.
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BINGO -- right on point. I share your lack of sympathy for map challenged drivers.

The Seaport has a huge expressway tunnel buried underneath it. Use it!
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

BussesAin'tTrains said:
It's always been planned to be able to sink tracks in the Transitway and run both BRT and LRT through it. They should have started the planning process for hooking up the Green Line last decade at the earliest, but of course that didn't happen. Green Line will be the best way to effectively hook up the Seaport to the rail system, and it's not even on DOT's/MBTA's radar.
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I knew that light rail was an option but I never considered the possibility that they could run buses and rail simultaneously. I've always thought the problem with running rail is that you'd have to stop at the water and you'd lose the airport connection, but maybe a light rail could emerge and go elsewhere around the waterfront and the SL bus could go to the airport. Could this be done? More of a transit pitch but I'm thinking that head says wouldn't be the biggest deal since the bulk of passengers would get off on the proximal stops, so would take whichever mode happened to be arriving first, bus or rail. You'd lose airport frequency but would that be a big deal? Interesting...
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

FK4 said:
I knew that light rail was an option but I never considered the possibility that they could run buses and rail simultaneously. I've always thought the problem with running rail is that you'd have to stop at the water and you'd lose the airport connection, but maybe a light rail could emerge and go elsewhere around the waterfront and the SL bus could go to the airport. Could this be done? More of a transit pitch but I'm thinking that head says wouldn't be the biggest deal since the bulk of passengers would get off on the proximal stops, so would take whichever mode happened to be arriving first, bus or rail. You'd lose airport frequency but would that be a big deal? Interesting...
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Sure. Send the GL down to the Southie bus terminal at East 1st Street across from the park and send the SL1 to Logan.
 
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