Seaport Square (Formerly McCourt Seaport Parcels)

[jl326]

It would slow down how fast cars drive on the road and it would give more space to bikes and most importantly to pedestrians.

It's already pretty slow as it is during large portions of the day. Pedestrians have plenty of space on the sidewalks (except for where the ugly SilverLine head house is by Via). By most accounts, the sidewalks can be considered wide. Bike lanes look pretty standard to me. Certainly not any narrower than elsewhere and I don't see backups happening in the bike lanes.

As posted above, the wider lanes at least give a chance for traffic to continue flowing when so many Ubers/Lyfts are dropping off and picking up (which I find completely annoying as well - see Sleeper St.). I don't think narrowing lane space solves or improves upon any actual needs.

 

[cjbski]

What the heck would narrowing traffic lanes actually accomplish?

It would accomplish a zillion things:
- SLOW DOWN cars + more important the 18 wheelers that barrel through here like it's Talladega
- Make it safer for pedestrians
- Make it safer for bikes + give more space to bikes
- Make the area quieter (if you've been on Seaport Blvd. during the day and hear the endless trucks screaming by and hitting potholes you'll know what I'm talking about)
- Give the chance for more greenery, thus breaking up the cement jungle and giving the area a bit more of a soul vs. a highway feel

 

[cjbski]

It's already pretty slow as it is during large portions of the day. Pedestrians have plenty of space on the sidewalks (except for where the ugly SilverLine head house is by Via). By most accounts, the sidewalks can be considered wide. Bike lanes look pretty standard to me. Certainly not any narrower than elsewhere and I don't see backups happening in the bike lanes.

As posted above, the wider lanes at least give a chance for traffic to continue flowing when so many Ubers/Lyfts are dropping off and picking up (which I find completely annoying as well - see Sleeper St.). I don't think narrowing lane space solves or improves upon any actual needs.

Agreed on the Uber/Lyft front, but think about Newbury Street or Boylston. Cars move just fine there with less space and move around the double parked cars, etc.

Seaport Blvd. feels like a speedway in many parts.

 

[jl326]

It would accomplish a zillion things:
- SLOW DOWN cars + more important the 18 wheelers that barrel through here like it's Talladega
- Make it safer for pedestrians
- Make it safer for bikes + give more space to bikes
- Make the area quieter (if you've been on Seaport Blvd. during the day and hear the endless trucks screaming by and hitting potholes you'll know what I'm talking about)
- Give the chance for more greenery, thus breaking up the cement jungle and giving the area a bit more of a soul vs. a highway feel

I am on Seaport Blvd during the day almost daily and will agree about the trucks. They can be maddeningly annoying. But that should really be enforced by the police rather than penalizing all motorists. I'd rather curtail the behavior of trucks rather than listen to cars stuck and honking at each other if there's no longer room to maneuver around.

Pedestrians (and I'm also one when I'm there) have an obligation to be aware, use common sense, and not play live action frogger with traffic. I mentioned bikes in my comment above which looks like it was posted pretty much at the same time as yours. I'm all in for greenery and trees and think there's good space in the median to add that and make it visually attractive.

Some of these comments make it sound like the Seaport has the widest lanes, the skinniest sidewalks, and nonexistent bike lanes. I would argue that it's better off than many, many other parts of the city in that regard. My primary point is, why pinch in an area where there doesn't seem to be a practical need, but will result in more traffic jams?

 

[jl326]

Agreed on the Uber/Lyft front, but think about Newbury Street or Boylston. Cars move just fine there with less space and move around the double parked cars, etc.

Seaport Blvd. feels like a speedway in many parts.

Haha nooooo.. No they don't. Not on Newbury. I would definitely not say it is smooth going on Newbury until the stores start closing.

Boylston is a little different. Boylston has 3(?) travel lanes plus 2 parking lanes, all one way. More space to maneuver. Plus, if you're really just trying to get down from one end to the other, there are a number of parallel streets you can take (Commonwealth, Beacon (one-way), Storrow). That helps distribute the traffic some. Seaport Blvd is one of a couple of main gateways into and out of Seaport depending on where you're coming from (Congress and Summer being the others). I think Summer has some rather wide lanes as well.

 

[datadyne007]

I am on Seaport Blvd during the day almost daily and will agree about the trucks. They can be maddeningly annoying. But that should really be enforced by the police rather than penalizing all motorists. I'd rather curtail the behavior of trucks rather than listen to cars stuck and honking at each other if there's no longer room to maneuver around.

Pedestrians (and I'm also one when I'm there) have an obligation to be aware, use common sense, and not play live action frogger with traffic. I mentioned bikes in my comment above which looks like it was posted pretty much at the same time as yours. I'm all in for greenery and trees and think there's good space in the median to add that and make it visually attractive.

Some of these comments make it sound like the Seaport has the widest lanes, the skinniest sidewalks, and nonexistent bike lanes. I would argue that it's better off than many, many other parts of the city in that regard. My primary point is, why pinch in an area where there doesn't seem to be a practical need, but will result in more traffic jams?

The problem is that you and too many other planners & traffic engineers see the effectiveness or success of a street by how many cars it can get through at the fastest speed. That is a reckless way of thinking in an urban environment.

If you design a street to get maximum through put of cars at top speeds, you do so at the expense of the safety of everyone else. The goal for a successful Complete Street is modal equity: cars moving slower, bikes moving in dedicated protected lanes & pedestrians enjoying wide sidewalks & frequent crosswalks &/or raised intersections. Cars should never be barreling down city blocks like they do on Seaport Blvd & other main avenues downtown like Boylston. Streets should be designed as such that cars can't ever actually exceed 25 mph due to the physical design of them, not just theoretically like most of Boston's streets which are designed for 40 but only limited to 25 by a flimsy sign.

 

[jl326]

The problem is that you and too many other planners & traffic engineers see the effectiveness or success of a street by how many cars it can get through at the fastest speed. That is a reckless way of thinking in an urban environment.

If you design a street to get maximum through put of cars at top speeds, you do so at the expense of the safety of everyone else. The goal for a successful street is modal equity: cars moving slower, bikes moving in dedicated protected lanes & pedestrians enjoying wide sidewalks & frequent crosswalks &/or raised intersections.

That's not true at all. What I am against is unnecessary gridlock caused by stopped, double-parked, or waiting cars, which would happen more frequently with narrower lanes. Speed limits should be set and enforced by the police, which I'm sure they should be happy to do since it means more revenues. However, no one is going top speed when trying to get around a stopped cars in an effort to keep traffic flowing.

The only part you got right about my position is maximum throughput of cars, which honestly is a good thing within the context of what I stated above.

The next time you are in Seaport, walk the sidewalks and be honest with yourself how many times you think to yourself that it isn't wide enough for you to use safely (current temporary construction restrictions and the aforementioned SL headhouse notwithstanding).

 

[datadyne007]

The next time you are in Seaport, walk the sidewalks and be honest with yourself how many times you think to yourself that it isn't wide enough for you to use safely (current temporary construction restrictions and the aforementioned SL headhouse notwithstanding).

I never said the Seaport/Seaport Blvd didn't have wide sidewalks because it does. I said they are components of a successful street design.

Actually, LMFTFY:

The next time you are in Seaport, bike on Seaport Blvd and be honest with yourself how many times you think to yourself that it isn't accommodating enough for you to use safely.

 

[cjbski]

Speaking of speed in the Seaport:

http://www.universalhub.com/2017/truck-flips-seaport

 

[stick n move]

From way up in the thread (#2284)

That would actually be badass. Itd be like a commonwealth ave but through the middle of a downtown area and right next to the water. Id love to see this executed and matured and see how it works outside of a residential area. The trees would also make it feel wayyyyy less vast than the open street does right now plus the bike lanes on either side and the ped path down the middle is a win for everyone. If they build this (which I havent seen in any masterplan) Id love to see in 40 years god willing Im alive how it turns out when those trees mature.

Seaport boulevard is already going to turn into an area where you walk down the sidewalks window shopping with the thousands upon thousands of sq ft of retail going in. Having this stretch down the middle of all that would really make it another one of the many unique neighborhoods of Boston that would mature into its own right and be able to stand on its own against the other heavy hitters of the city.

-heres where I insert the disclaimer that this was parking lots and none of the great parts of Boston had to be demoed to make this happen....they're still there and now theres a modern neighborhood for people to go to giving a wider range of neighborhood types in the city to choose from, choice is good. I really believe that this is going to turn into one of the better "downtown" style areas in the whole city because of the insane amount of ground floor retail. Our FIDI has tall buildings....but ground level has minimal retail. Its going to be the exact opposite here, short towers with tons of ground floor retail.

The way that the streets are laid out in a grid and the ground floors are modern glass give this a midtown manhattan feel to me without the century of range in architecture.

 

[stick n move]

 

[Shepard]

That would actually be badass. Itd be like a commonwealth ave but through the middle of a downtown area and right next to the water. Id love to see this executed and matured and see how it works outside of a residential area. The trees would also make it feel wayyyyy less vast than the open street does right now plus the bike lanes on either side and the ped path down the middle is a win for everyone. If they build this (which I havent seen in any masterplan) Id love to see in 40 years god willing Im alive how it turns out when those trees mature.

Seaport boulevard is already going to turn into an area where you walk down the sidewalks window shopping with the thousands upon thousands of sq ft of retail going in. Having this stretch down the middle of all that would really make it another one of the many unique neighborhoods of Boston that would mature into its own right and be able to stand on its own against the other heavy hitters of the city.

-heres where I insert the disclaimer that this was parking lots and none of the great parts of Boston had to be demoed to make this happen....they're still there and now theres a modern neighborhood for people to go to giving a wider range of neighborhood types in the city to choose from, choice is good. I really believe that this is going to turn into one of the better "downtown" style areas in the whole city because of the insane amount of ground floor retail. Our FIDI has tall buildings....but ground level has minimal retail. Its going to be the exact opposite here, short towers with tons of ground floor retail.

The way that the streets are laid out in a grid and the ground floors are modern glass give this a midtown manhattan feel to me without the century of range in architecture.

Great post. I made that pseudo-render using a width scheme modeled in Streetmix, so it's definitely possible. Unless, one lane (+ parking) in each direction is politically impossible, which it might be. But when considering what kind of traffic Seaport Blvd should carry, there's something to keep in mind: it's essentially a dead-end. If you're driving from downtown onto Seaport Blvd, your destination is the Seaport. There's probably very little, if any, through-traffic - which would probably all use Summer Street instead. Properly done, this should be a street for people - not for cars (and certainly not for trucks).

 

[BostonDrew]

Another view of the all the construction going on in the Seaport

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGFvV7BXkAEmzQV.jpg:large

 

[jl326]

Great post. I made that pseudo-render using a width scheme modeled in Streetmix, so it's definitely possible. Unless, one lane (+ parking) in each direction is politically impossible, which it might be. But when considering what kind of traffic Seaport Blvd should carry, there's something to keep in mind: it's essentially a dead-end. If you're driving from downtown onto Seaport Blvd, your destination is the Seaport. There's probably very little, if any, through-traffic - which would probably all use Summer Street instead. Properly done, this should be a street for people - not for cars (and certainly not for trucks).

Honestly, if it's possible to use Summer St as the main road for through traffic, I would change my tune about widening the median on Seaport Blvd. As it currently stands though, it can be pretty difficult for residents to get in and out during many hours of the day because of the traffic volume.

 

[Shepard]

But Summer Street IS the only through-street in the Seaport. Seaport Blvd gets you to... Harpoon?

Which is not to say I don't sympathize with the plight of residents' traffic woes on all the main arteries here. But the solution isn't keeping car lanes open. The solution is - and always has been and always will be - TRANSIT.

PS - have I posted this future BRT map before?

 

[stick n move]

Its still another road to divide cars up across the seaport. Just because Summer street is the only through street doesn't mean it should be the only street. Seaport Blvd and Congress st are still very necessary roads in the neighborhood to get to the pike. These are the three main roads for making your way through the seaport to get to where you need to go within the neighborhood which right now is contained between them.

 

[JeffDowntown]

Its still another road to divide cars up across the seaport. Just because Summer street is the only through street doesn't mean it should be the only street. Seaport Blvd and Congress st are still very necessary roads in the neighborhood to get to the pike. These are the three main roads for making your way through the seaport to get to where you need to go within the neighborhood which right now is contained between them.

Seaport Blvd. is also fastest Seaport area access to/from I-93 from the north. You really do not want all the Seaport/I-93 (north side) traffic detoured through Dewey Square!

 

[BKNA]

when considering what kind of traffic Seaport Blvd should carry, there's something to keep in mind: it's essentially a dead-end. If you're driving from downtown onto Seaport Blvd, your destination is the Seaport. There's probably very little, if any, through-traffic - which would probably all use Summer Street instead. Properly done, this should be a street for people - not for cars (and certainly not for trucks).

thats all pretty inaccurate. the majority of the traffic in this area is cut through traffic. Either heading to/from the ramps that lead to ALL of the interstates in the area or cutting through to S Boston proper.

The general public might not have been paying attention, but there's been traffic in this area long before new parcels started becoming occupied.

 

[stick n move]

 

[tysmith95]

I don't see why Seaport Blvd needs so much street parking. Get rid of that and add some pick up/drop off zones for Uber/Taxis/Deliveries in one area on every block.

One observation too. Southie, and most of Boston aside from Allston/Brighton and parts of downtown, is basically devoid of bike commuters. I almost never see bikes in Southie. On the other hand there are bikes everywhere North of the Charles.